Lds charities 2020 annual report

[Fair Dinkum]

I applaud LDS Charities and the lives they've been able to help but given the wealth of the church I question why only 2.5 billion has been donated in the past 35 years.  That amounts to an average of $71.5 million per year.  Given the fact that the church currently has a reserve fund of over $100 billion stock portfolio earning an average of 8% per year, that amounts to less than 1% of those earnings. A paltry .0715% to be exact.  Surely the church could afford to do more than to donate a mere $4.33 per member per year?

I really don't want this to come off as criticism since I appreciate all that they do, I just wish it was more.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/english/charities/pdf/2020/PD60011995-LDSC-Annual-Report-2020-desktop-eng.pdf?lang=eng

Edited March 29, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[mgy401]

It does do more.  The report appears to include the church welfare program’s aid to humanitarian/disaster relief efforts specifically, but not the welfare program’s own work projects.  Last year Newsroom announced that the church’s combined welfare and humanitarian spending are nearly $1 billion per year (source), which is fourteen times higher than the $70 million/year figure you suggest.

Moreover:  if we assume (based on prevailing tuition rates) that a private university costs $40K/year/student to run, and we consider that BYU-Provo educates roughly 30,000 students per year while collecting just under $6K/student/year in tuition, then the Church is subsidizing those 30,000 college students to the tune of $34K/year, for a total of $1.02 billion in educational subsidies per annum.  That’s not even counting the other BYU kids in Laie or Rexburg.  I’d be thrilled to see the Church divest itself of those liabilities, but apparently the time for doing so has not come.  Yet.

Anyways, given that the BSA is easily facing $95 billion of exposure (95,000 alleged sex abuse claims times—let’s say—$1 million/claim) and that a substantial portion of those claims are likely from claimants who were in Mormon scout troops:  I think the Church’s restraint with its rainy day find is very prudent indeed.  

Edited March 29, 2021 by mgy401

[JAHS]

39 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I applaud LDS Charities and the lives they've been able to help but given the wealth of the church I question why only 2.5 billion has been donated in the past 35 years.  That amounts to an average of $71.5 million per year.  Given the fact that the church currently has a reserve fund of over $100 billion stock portfolio earning an average of 8% per year, that amounts to less than 1% of those earnings. A paltry .0715% to be exact.  Surely the church could afford to do more than to donate a mere $4.33 per member per year?

I really don't want this to come off as criticism since I appreciate all that they do, I just wish it was more.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/english/charities/pdf/2020/PD60011995-LDSC-Annual-Report-2020-desktop-eng.pdf?lang=eng

So how much more would satisfy you? Would it be enough to satisfy someone else? How much is the right amount? More will never be enough to satisfy everyone.
The church is not a charity, it is a religion that participates in charitable causes. It takes a lot of money to build, maintain, and grow a church and to make sure you have enough security to get it through the tough times that are sure to come. 

[Robert F. Smith]

We have been discussing that report here on this board:

 

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, mgy401 said:

.............

Moreover:  if we assume (based on prevailing tuition rates) that a private university costs $40K/year/student to run, and we consider that BYU-Provo educates roughly 30,000 students per year while collecting just under $6K/student/year in tuition, then the Church is subsidizing those 30,000 college students to the tune of $34K/year, for a total of $1.02 billion in educational subsidies per annum.  That’s not even counting the other BYU kids in Laie or Rexburg.  I’d be thrilled to see the Church divest itself of those liabilities, but apparently the time for doing so has not come.  Yet.

On the contrary, this is one of the wisest possible investments the LDS Church could make.  Subsidizing LDS youth education should be vastly broadened to include education at any good college.  That enables them to get educated without crushing debt -- debt which could prevent them marrying and having children.  Previous generations have not had to contend with such high education costs.

3 hours ago, mgy401 said:

Anyways, given that the BSA is easily facing $95 billion of exposure (95,000 alleged sex abuse claims times—let’s say—$1 million/claim) and that a substantial portion of those claims are likely from claimants who were in Mormon scout troops:  I think the Church’s restraint with its rainy day find is very prudent indeed.  

Many Roman Catholic dioceses have gone bankrupt and have had to sell properties to foot the bill for massive sex-abuse lawsuits.  The LDS Church is much more financially well situated for the inevitable hard times.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

........................, I just wish it was more.....................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tOkpntQtBM

[LoudmouthMormon]

Some people say prostitution is the oldest profession.  I believe armchair quarterbacking is slightly older.  Cain might have started it.

No matter what someone else does with their means, it's never right enough.

Edited March 30, 2021 by LoudmouthMormon

[mgy401]

44 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

On the contrary, this is one of the wisest possible investments the LDS Church could make.  Subsidizing LDS youth education should be vastly broadened to include education at any good college.  That enables them to get educated without crushing debt -- debt which could prevent them marrying and having children.  Previous generations have not had to contend with such high education costs.

I agree with you conceptually.  But there’s been a palpable entitlement complex and relative lack of devotion to Gospel principles coming out of many BYU students and staff of late.  And it seems likely that, assuming the Church retains some of its ideas about sexual morality and gender roles, BYU will come under increasing pressure from accrediting bodies as well as the Department of Education and the NCAA.  Combine all of that with the hideous cost of these institutions and the relatively narrow proportion of Church youth that they serve; and I suspect the Church may in time find its purposes better achieved by shuttering the BYUs and simply giving an annual scholarship of—say—ten thousand dollars, to every temple-worthy youth who is enrolled in a college or trade school program.  

[nuclearfuels]

4 hours ago, mgy401 said:

the BSA is easily facing $95 billion of exposure (95,000 alleged sex abuse claims times—let’s say—$1 million/claim) and that a substantial portion of those claims are likely from claimants who were in Mormon scout troops:  I think the Church’s restraint with its rainy day find is very prudent indeed.

Whoa. I had no idea BSA was in that deep

[webbles]

5 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I applaud LDS Charities and the lives they've been able to help but given the wealth of the church I question why only 2.5 billion has been donated in the past 35 years.  That amounts to an average of $71.5 million per year.

Per the other thread that I started and that Robert linked to, Charities donated over $200 million this year.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, mgy401 said:

I agree with you conceptually.  But there’s been a palpable entitlement complex and relative lack of devotion to Gospel principles coming out of many BYU students and staff of late.  And it seems likely that, assuming the Church retains some of its ideas about sexual morality and gender roles, BYU will come under increasing pressure from accrediting bodies as well as the Department of Education and the NCAA.  Combine all of that with the hideous cost of these institutions and the relatively narrow proportion of Church youth that they serve; and I suspect the Church may in time find its purposes better achieved by shuttering the BYUs and simply giving an annual scholarship of—say—ten thousand dollars, to every temple-worthy youth who is enrolled in a college or trade school program.  

Some good ideas there, but bear in mind that the LDS Church actually began the UofU.  Instead of shuttering it, it became a state institution.  Same for some LDS-owned hospitals.  Such institutions could be cut loose to function on their own.  On the other hand, the Church does depend upon some BYU faculty members to train their vast network of CES teachers -- instead of having a theological seminary system like some other denominations.  And, apart from BYU Religious Education, the Brethren also depend upon historians at BYU to provide new blood for their Historical Dept.  One might want to think of LDS higher education the same way the Roman Catholics do, in building and retaining Church-run educational institutions.  The Society of Jesus (Jesuits) provides the most highly qualified intellectuals in the world, and it greatly redounds to the credit and advancement of the RC Church.  In that respect, BYU is quite like the Gregorian University in Rome.

My belief is that the LDS Church desperately needs a strong substratum of intellectuals.  This should be particularly true tor so dynamic an institution as the LDS Church, which is in the throes of constant change.

[Fair Dinkum]

16 hours ago, JAHS said:

So how much more would satisfy you?

Well 10% of Gross Increase seems to have a familiar ring to it...don't you think?   They, aka (god), demands it of us...so it seems fair and appropriate. So we have this reality that the church has amassed this huge $100 billion+ rainy day fund that by itself could fund the needs of the church for 200 years.  I certainly understand the wisdom of having such a fund.  But since we all pay our 10% in tithing, why wouldn't the church also donate 10% of the increase from its fund? 

Last year a well managed fund grew by over 30%, so last year the church could have donated 10% of its increase or something like $3 billion. Other years would be less since the market fluctuates.  The average growth is 8% or $8 billion dollars, so it seems to me, since you asked, that $800 million would be a nice average reasonable amount of cash donations over a multi-year period rather than the average of $71 million.  Given that the church would be keeping 90% of its increase, the annual increase could also increase accordingly as the underlying market values of their funds increase as well.  This of course would be completely separate from any funds that came in through member donations of fast offerings.

To borrow an old adage, if its good for the goose, its good for the gander.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[JAHS]

17 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Well 10% of Gross Increase seems to have a familiar ring to it...don't you think?   They, aka (god), demands it of us...so it seems fair and appropriate. So we have this reality that the church has amassed this huge $100 billion+ rainy day fund that by itself could fund the needs of the church for 200 years.  I certainly understand the wisdom of having such a fund.  But since we all pay our 10% in tithing, why wouldn't the church also donate 10% of the increase from its fund? 

Last year a well managed fund grew by over 30%, so last year the church could have donated 10% of its increase or something like $3 billion. Other years would be less since the market fluctuates.  The average growth is 8% or $8 billion dollars, so it seems to me, since you asked, that $800 million would be a nice average reasonable amount of cash donations over a multi-year period rather than the average of $71 million.  Given that the church would be keeping 90% of its increase, the annual increase could also increase accordingly as the underlying market values of their funds increase as well.  This of course would be completely separate from any funds that came in through member donations of fast offerings.

The church is not a person that needs to have it's faith tested and proved by paying tithing, so tithing is probably not the right term to use. Like I said earlier either we trust the church leaders' prophetic abilities to know what God wants them to do with the money or we don't. I do. What if we slip into a depression again and many people are not working and therefore not paying tithing? The church would be able to continue on without their donations. It is a religion first with the goal to save souls and a charitable organization second. 

[mgy401]

1 hour ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Well 10% of Gross Increase seems to have a familiar ring to it...don't you think?   They, aka (god), demands it of us...so it seems fair and appropriate. So we have this reality that the church has amassed this huge $100 billion+ rainy day fund that by itself could fund the needs of the church for 200 years.  I certainly understand the wisdom of having such a fund.  But since we all pay our 10% in tithing, why wouldn't the church also donate 10% of the increase from its fund? 

Last year a well managed fund grew by over 30%, so last year the church could have donated 10% of its increase or something like $3 billion. Other years would be less since the market fluctuates.  The average growth is 8% or $8 billion dollars, so it seems to me, since you asked, that $800 million would be a nice average reasonable amount of cash donations over a multi-year period rather than the average of $71 million.  Given that the church would be keeping 90% of its increase, the annual increase could also increase accordingly as the underlying market values of their funds increase as well.  This of course would be completely separate from any funds that came in through member donations of fast offerings.

To borrow an old adage, if its good for the goose, its good for the gander.

Again:  they do.

$8 billion in annual fund increase + $7 billion in annual tithing receipts = $15 billion.

10% of $15 billion = $1.5 billion.  That’s your target annual charitable expenditure.

Now, above I demonstrated that the Church  likely spends $1.02 billion/year just for the education of the students at BYU-Provo (30,000 students times an individual annual subsidy of roughly $34K).  Add 19,000 kids for BYU-Idaho and that brings us to $1.666 billion in educational subsidies per year, plus the additional nearly $1 billion that the Church pours into welfare operations and humanitarian aid.  That’s $2.68 billion in current Church charitable giving, above and beyond its own operational expenses (which of course are charitable per se under the appropriate legal definitions).

$2.68 billion > $1.5 billion.

$2.02 billion = just shy of 17.9% of the Church’s annual “increase” of $15 billion, and 25.25% of the rainy day fund’s increase.

I defy anyone who accuses the Church of giving too little, to provide receipts showing that they themselves donate 17.9% of their income to educating others, feeding the poor, and/or humanitarian aid.

(Or, they can admit that this discussion has nothing to do with helping the poor; and that really they’re just salty because they hate the Church and want it to be broke.)

(Oh, and $100 billion won’t fund the Church for 200 years.  The leaker revealed IIRC that the Church takes in $7 billion in tithes, spends $6 billion of it, and saves the rest.  $100 billion / $6 billion = sixteen years.  That doesn’t count $95-billion legal settlements, or the federal government trying to seize our temples [again], or a major construction project somewhere in western Missouri . . .)

Edited March 30, 2021 by mgy401

[Tacenda]

51 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Well 10% of Gross Increase seems to have a familiar ring to it...don't you think?   They, aka (god), demands it of us...so it seems fair and appropriate. So we have this reality that the church has amassed this huge $100 billion+ rainy day fund that by itself could fund the needs of the church for 200 years.  I certainly understand the wisdom of having such a fund.  But since we all pay our 10% in tithing, why wouldn't the church also donate 10% of the increase from its fund? 

Last year a well managed fund grew by over 30%, so last year the church could have donated 10% of its increase or something like $3 billion. Other years would be less since the market fluctuates.  The average growth is 8% or $8 billion dollars, so it seems to me, since you asked, that $800 million would be a nice average reasonable amount of cash donations over a multi-year period rather than the average of $71 million.  Given that the church would be keeping 90% of its increase, the annual increase could also increase accordingly as the underlying market values of their funds increase as well.  This of course would be completely separate from any funds that came in through member donations of fast offerings.

To borrow an old adage, if its good for the goose, its good for the gander.

Agree! And tithe the corporate earnings only.

[Fair Dinkum]

33 minutes ago, JAHS said:

The church is not a person that needs to have it's faith tested and proved by paying tithing, so tithing is probably not the right term to use. Like I said earlier either we trust the church leaders' prophetic abilities to know what God wants them to do with the money or we don't. I do. What if we slip into a depression again and many people are not working and therefore not paying tithing? The church would be able to continue on without their donations. It is a religion first with the goal to save souls and a charitable organization second. 

Right now the church has amassed the largest private endowment fund in America.  They can do whatever they want to do with those funds and will.  But the PR optic's are bad. If they want to look like a charitable organization they can choose to donate 1/tenth of the increase they earn on their $130 Billion fund or they can choose not to and continue to have the public scrutiny that brings on member lawsuits.  But frankly both of us know they really don't care what either you or I think, they will continue to do exactly what they have been doing and grow that fund and hoard those dollars for god knows what.

[JAHS]

11 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

for god knows what

Exactly. 😉

[Fair Dinkum]

47 minutes ago, mgy401 said:

Again:  they do.

$8 billion in annual fund increase + $7 billion in annual tithing receipts = $15 billion.

10% of $15 billion = $1.5 billion.  That’s your target annual charitable expenditure.

Now, above I demonstrated that the Church  likely spends $1.02 billion/year just for the education of the students at BYU-Provo (30,000 students times an individual annual subsidy of roughly $34K).  Add 19,000 kids for BYU-Idaho and that brings us to $1.666 billion in educational subsidies per year, plus the additional nearly $1 billion that the Church pours into welfare operations and humanitarian aid.  That’s $2.68 billion in current Church charitable giving, above and beyond its own operational expenses (which of course are charitable per se under the appropriate legal definitions).

$2.68 billion > $1.5 billion.

$2.02 billion = just shy of 17.9% of the Church’s annual “increase” of $15 billion, and 25.25% of the rainy day fund’s increase.

I defy anyone who accuses the Church of giving too little, to provide receipts showing that they themselves donate 17.9% of their income to educating others, feeding the poor, and/or humanitarian aid.

(Or, they can admit that this discussion has nothing to do with helping the poor; and that really they’re just salty because they hate the Church and want it to be broke.)

You may well be correct.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we also had financial transparency?  I know I'm asking way too much of the church.  But wait, the church admits that they've only donated 2.5 Billion in the past 35 years.  Again I'm not trying to criticize the church but by their own numbers the optic's just seem rather stingy for such a rich institution.  I mean Bill Gates and Starbucks donate more annually than the church and they don't even claim to be charitable institutions.

[Tacenda]

19 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Right now the church has amassed the largest private endowment fund in America.  They can do whatever they want to do with those funds and will.  But the PR optic's are bad. If they want to look like a charitable organization they can choose to donate 1/tenth of the increase they earn on their $130 Billion fund or they can choose not to and continue to have the public scrutiny that brings on member lawsuits.  But frankly both of us know they really don't care what either you or I think, they will continue to do exactly what they have been doing and grow that fund and hoard those dollars for god knows what.

But it does look like they are doing better, so hopefully they are listening.

[mgy401]

10 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

 But wait, the church admits that they've only donated 2.5 Billion in the past 35 years. 

No, they said that the subset of the Church’s organizational structure entitled LDS Charities spent $2.5 billion in the past 35 years.  I already showed you a source indicating that Church welfare spending is not included in that figure; and if anyone thinks that three universities educating fifty thousand students and charging under $10K/year in tuition can be run for 35 years for under $2.5 billion—I’ve got some shares in a Utah herbal supplement company that may interest you.  

[JAHS]

7 minutes ago, mgy401 said:

26 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

But wait, the church admits that they've only donated 2.5 Billion in the past 35 years. 

No, they said that the subset of the Church’s organizational structure entitled LDS Charities spent $2.5 billion in the past 35 years.  I already showed you a source indicating that Church welfare spending is not included in that figure; and if anyone thinks that three universities educating fifty thousand students and charging under $10K/year in tuition can be run for 35 years for under $2.5 billion—I’ve got some shares in a Utah herbal supplement company that may interest you.  

What's good about the welfare program is that it helps keep thousands of people off the street and fed  thus greatly reducing the burden to the established homeless programs, that might otherwise be overwhelmed by poor and homeless LDS church members. 

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, JAHS said:

What's good about the welfare program is that it helps keep thousands of people off the street and fed  thus greatly reducing the burden to the established homeless programs, that might otherwise be overwhelmed by poor and homeless LDS church members. 

Very true!

[webbles]

2 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

You may well be correct.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we also had financial transparency?  I know I'm asking way too much of the church.  But wait, the church admits that they've only donated 2.5 Billion in the past 35 years.  Again I'm not trying to criticize the church but by their own numbers the optic's just seem rather stingy for such a rich institution.  I mean Bill Gates and Starbucks donate more annually than the church and they don't even claim to be charitable institutions.

Starbucks donated more than $200 million last year?  Where do you see that?

[Nofear]

2 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

You may well be correct.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we also had financial transparency?  I know I'm asking way too much of the church.  But wait, the church admits that they've only donated 2.5 Billion in the past 35 years.  Again I'm not trying to criticize the church but by their own numbers the optic's just seem rather stingy for such a rich institution.  I mean Bill Gates and Starbucks donate more annually than the church and they don't even claim to be charitable institutions.

Many of the Brethren hearken from times when the Church was not doing well financially at all. They are also mostly of a generation that was fiscally much more parsimonious than most today. Even after a windfall of financial means, individuals accustomed to want of means often have a significant difficulty adjusting mindset.

[Fair Dinkum]

4 hours ago, webbles said:

Starbucks donated more than $200 million last year?  Where do you see that?

I should clarify.  As a percentage of Net Earnings.  In 2020 Starbucks donated $25million on net earnings of $665,000,000 or 4% vs LDS churches donation of less than 1%

 

Question: Am I the crazy one here and the only one thinking that based on their gross income they could do more?

Edited March 30, 2021 by Fair Dinkum