The LDS gospel of eternal progression-

[johnny]

Zakuska  writes,

But does multiplying for eternity and filling up the Garden of Eden and bursting it at the seems "equate to journeying to perfection"?

God created worlds ..

Journeying to perfection indicates being created or placed in a state of less perfectness.

Journeying to perfection indicates growth ...

[Zakuska]

Yes... it does indicate growth.

but to grow... there has to be an outside force acting upon the subject or it sagnates and dies.

Also... what is the difference in perfection of a seed and a tree?

God doesnt just snap his fingers... poof. a tree. he creates a seed that has the potential to grow. But that seed needs out side influences to make it grow.

[johnny]

Zakuska  writes,

but to grow... there has to be an outside force acting upon the subject or it sagnates and dies. 

Or a inside force acting upon the subject

[Zakuska]

It has to start outside then internalized. Water and nutrients drawn in.

[Tanyan]

Is that inside force PreDestined ?

[Zakuska]

God said nothing about what the tree of life was for until after the choice was made.

Gen 3:22

But he made special mention and care to introduce the devil to Adam and Eve. Hmmm?

God added the outside influence needed for growth to begin. Then he left them alone and watched them to see what would happen. (BOA Yeah!) Then... based from their choices he reacted, and provided a way.

What is that scripture?

"God will not let you be tempted more than you can bare and will provide a way... yadee yadah"

We don't get from the story any hint of why they where created. Nor do we get the idea of Journeying to anywhere.

Only that God was cruel enough to introduce evil to them.

[Tanyan]

Zaluska great point !.

[emaughan]

Are you guys getting into Garden of Eden ecology? The amount of info we have is piddly, and we have to make a construct of an ecosystem that is in different state than the natural world in which we live - based on that itsy bitsy info? Stop now before it is too late! Or just liken it to the Good Rock Candy Mtn. and call it even.

[Zakuska]

WOW! Life is the Ultimate... choose your own adventure game!

[T-Shirt]

JOhnny,

What advantage did Adam and Eve have by having the tree of knowledge and the presence of Satan that they would not have had otherwise?

T-Shirt

[Zakuska]

I also think Johnnys postion is baseless.

1st: 20/20 hind site doesn't pertain to the situation. James was not written for another 4000 years after the fact. Adam did not have the scriptures to help him out.

The only thing Adam had to go on where the 2 commands given him:

1) Don't eat the forbidden fruit or you'll die.

2) Stay with you wife and multiply.

He obeyed the only command he could have in the situation he was in. The first command already being broken.

So what was Gods original purpose for creating them... up to this point in time the bible says nothing about his purpose. So trying to exrapilate and say it was sending them on a journey of perefection is a bit of a stretch, IMHO.

I also see Neos choices inside the seven Matrixes. To be or not to be. He consitantly chose to be. But it wasn't until he chose not to be that he was set free from the prison. (Notice the paradox)

It wasnt until man chose to pass through death, that he was able to grow.

[johnny]

Zakuska  writes,

I also think Johnnys postion is baseless.

My position is based on scripture ... Eve desired to be wise (Gen 3:6).

Gen.3

[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

1st: 20/20 hind site doesn't pertain to the situation. James was not written for another 4000 years after the fact. Adam did not have the scriptures to help him out.

The situation is that Eve's sorrow was multiplied (Gen 3:16) because of the way she sought to be wise.

Gen.3

[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

He obeyed the only command he could have in the situation he was in. The first command already being broken.

Adam should have obeyed his Father's command to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:17)

Gen.3

[11] And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

So what was Gods original purpose for creating them... up to this point in time the bible says nothing about his purpose. So trying to exrapilate and say it was sending them on a journey of perefection is a bit of a stretch, IMHO.

Man was to have dominion over God's creation (Gen 1:26)

Gen.1

[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

It wasnt until man chose to pass through death, that he was able to grow.

When man ate of the tree he died (Gen 2:17).

Gen.2

[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

[Neighbor]

Zakuska, honestly:-)

1st: 20/20 hind site doesn't pertain to the situation. James was not written for another 4000 years after the fact. Adam did not have the scriptures to help him out.

Neighbor: What need of Scriptures did Adam have when God came and talked to him in the cool of the day? If God came an talked personally to me every day, I'd be asking questions and learning. Don't you think we can presume on that aspect?

That Adam chose to believe the serpent instead of God is the issue.

Don't confuse yourself too much. Remember, all history from creation to Abraham is condensed into the first twelve chapters of Genesis.