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Should Elder Uchtdorf step down?


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14 minutes ago, Amulek said:

If that were the case, then yeah - he should probably get a stern talking to

I doubt it would be much more than receiving a fairly generic email reminding him the policy exists and the reason that it exists.

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1 hour ago, Amulek said:
Quote

 

Maybe we aren't reading the same thread, because I don't believe anyone has said they would be cool with him lying. 

I’ve reached my quota of reactions for the day so this is your upvote. I would be very disappointed if I found out he lied. 

Edited by Peacefully
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8 hours ago, rongo said:

I would be shocked if donors can donate anonymously. Imagine the "dark money" donations and laundering that would open everything up to. 

Don’t look up what Super PACs are. 

Worst Supreme Court decision EVER. 

Well, no, there were worse ones such as Dred Scott but that one was bad.

Basically unlimited donations from just about every kind of organizations and the rules that govern them are mostly unenforceable and/or feeble.

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3 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

I doubt it would be much more than receiving a fairly generic email reminding him the policy exists and the reason that it exists.

I think the fact he has now explicitly denied having personally made the donations would make the situation far more complicated than that. Paul H. Dunn was severely disciplined for his fabrications, even after having already been placed on emeritus status. I don’t believe the Brethren give any quarter to public dishonesty from those in high leadership positions. 
 

But it’s a moot point anyway. I believe Elder Uchtdorf’s statement. If it turns out my trust was misplaced, I’ll deal with it then. No sense in getting spun up over hypotheticals. 

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11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You have a weird method of exiting a conversation.

The only conversation I said I was exiting was the side conversation I was having with Calm. I never said I was exiting this thread or ceasing to discuss the topic raised in the opening thread or subtopics related thereto. I don’t know where you got that idea. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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23 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

think the fact he has now explicitly denied having personally made the donations would make the situation far more complicated than that.

 

24 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But it’s a moot point anyway. I believe Elder Uchtdorf’s statement. If it turns out my trust was misplaced, I’ll deal with it then. No sense in getting spun up over hypotheticals. 

I agree with both points.

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57 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The only conversation I said I was exiting was the side conversation I was having with Calm. I never said I was exiting this thread or ceasing to discuss the topic raised in the opening thread or subtopics related thereto. I don’t know where you got that idea. 

I considered that possibility when I made the post but decided it would be more fun to make it and see what happens.

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14 hours ago, ttribe said:

Are you serious?  So, you no longer value all of his Apostolic teachings because you might not share POLITICAL leanings?

I do value his teachings.  His talk Perfect Love Casteth out Fear just might be my all-time favorite.

The fact that that he differs from me politically is just something I have to get over.  And I will.  I look forward to his remarks this upcoming conference.

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On 3/13/2021 at 1:13 PM, rongo said:

What are others' thoughts on this? 

politically, I respectifully disagree. 

spiritually and personally, I couldn't care less..as long as the consequences of those donations are not re-framed as me not living my religion in General Conference which will likely happen, leaving me to disengage due to a lack of consistency in messaging

 

 

Edited by nuclearfuels
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On 3/13/2021 at 10:13 AM, rongo said:

My dad thinks he should, because "he wasn't supposed to donate to campaigns, and he knew he wasn't supposed to, since 2011." I didn't know about this policy, and separate from the policy, my personal view is that apostles should be able to donate to whatever they want to, and it's none of our business. 

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/12/22326401/elder-dieter-uchtdorf-clarifies-family-campaign-donations-during-elections

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/03/12/family-dieter-uchtdorf/

I think that resigning is too harsh and unwarranted, but I do wonder what, if anything, he or the Church will say about this beyond the apology already reported in the news. I don't think it will be mentioned or brought up at all, personally.

What are others' thoughts on this? 

I think the fact that Elder Uchtdorf was an airline pilot who tells good stories using flying an airplane as an analogy for living the gospel makes up for the fact that he may have given some of his own money to support Democratic candidates in politics.

In fact, the more good stories he tells about flying an airplane the more money he should be able to give to support Democratic candidates.  At least as long as the Democratic candidates are in favor of gospel principles which he supports.

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Q:  What did he actually do?  
 

A:  He donated to powers that promote the gay agenda, abortion, corrupt elections, violence, transgenderism, pornography, the curtailment of individual rights, socialism, the disintegration of the family, abdication of personal responsibility, corruption of gender roles...EVERYTHING that is anti God’s plan of salvation.

Put that way it seems pretty clear what should happen.

He was demoted once when he was released from the 1st Presidency.  Make no mistake that wasn’t just a “release”.  However he won’t be released because of this.  The Church seems much too concerned about saving face since Pres Hinckley’s days.

This is question 7 in the temple recommend:

“Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”

Based on this alone, no Democrat should hold a recommend little alone be in The 12.

 

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2 minutes ago, Durangout said:

Q:  What did he actually do?  
 

A:  He donated to powers that promote the gay agenda, abortion, corrupt elections, violence, transgenderism, pornography, the curtailment of individual rights, socialism, the disintegration of the family, abdication of personal responsibility, corruption of gender roles...EVERYTHING that is anti God’s plan of salvation.

Put that way it seems pretty clear what should happen.

He was demoted once when he was released from the 1st Presidency.  Make no mistake that wasn’t just a “release”.  However he won’t be released because of this.  The Church seems much too concerned about saving face since Pres Hinckley’s days.

This is question 7 in the temple recommend:

“Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”

Based on this alone, no Democrat should hold a recommend little alone be in The 12.

 

Your rant is not based on facts. Elder Uchtdorf did not make the donation. A member of his family did. 
 

Even if it had been him, it’s nothing to get your knickers in a twist over. 

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21 hours ago, rongo said:

Oh, no doubt Church legal and Public Affairs had a hand in the brief statement. It sure reads/sounds like it!

Honest question: Do you believe Church Legal and Public Affairs were involved without the knowledge and approval of President Nelson?

I mean, do you really think there is some attorney or PR guy out in SLC right now who knows all the particulars of the situation - necessary, no doubt, in order to craft the perfectly ambiguous non-admission-admission you have been complaining about - and yet the prophet, himself, is actually in the dark about what actually transpired?

 

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24 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Wow.  

 

20 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

Your rant is not based on facts. Elder Uchtdorf did not make the donation. A member of his family did. 
 

Even if it had been him, it’s nothing to get your knickers in a twist over. 

I am curious - based on your reaction did you disagree with Durangout concerning Elder Uchtdorf or concerning the Democratic platform?
 

 

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On 3/13/2021 at 5:00 PM, Tacenda said:

Yes, Joseph's polygamy, sadly. But what I was trying to say is that if the church made Uchtdorf step down, that may cause someone's testimony to struggle or collapse. Happens all the time. 

Why would Joseph's polygamy be an issue for you?  Wasn't it a revelation from God?

Many years ago I went to a certain Pentecostal church.  The lead pastor made a public
confession that he was stepping down because he was involved in an extra-marital affair.
I was shocked for a week or two, but it did nothing to hurt my testimony about Jesus Christ.

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3 minutes ago, theplains said:

Why would Joseph's polygamy be an issue for you?  Wasn't it a revelation from God?

Many years ago I went to a certain Pentecostal church.  The lead pastor made a public
confession that he was stepping down because he was involved in an extra-marital affair.
I was shocked for a week or two, but it did nothing to hurt my testimony about Jesus Christ.

A pastor in a Pentacostal church is not equivalent to Joseph Smith in the LDS church. And people can still believe in Jesus Christ after no longer believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

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18 minutes ago, theplains said:

Why would Joseph's polygamy be an issue for you?  Wasn't it a revelation from God?

Many years ago I went to a certain Pentecostal church.  The lead pastor made a public
confession that he was stepping down because he was involved in an extra-marital affair.
I was shocked for a week or two, but it did nothing to hurt my testimony about Jesus Christ.

Polygamy is no issue for me and yes, it was a revelation from God, not to mention how the majority of the greatest prophets have lived throughout the millennia.
IMO even Christ was likely a polygamist.

But a Pastor doesn't speak for God as Joseph did.  Big difference for those who are troubled by polygamy.

Edited by JLHPROF
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2 hours ago, Durangout said:

Q:  What did he actually do?  
 

A:  He donated to powers that promote the gay agenda, abortion, corrupt elections, violence, transgenderism, pornography, the curtailment of individual rights, socialism, the disintegration of the family, abdication of personal responsibility, corruption of gender roles...EVERYTHING that is anti God’s plan of salvation.

Put that way it seems pretty clear what should happen.

He was demoted once when he was released from the 1st Presidency.  Make no mistake that wasn’t just a “release”.  However he won’t be released because of this.  The Church seems much too concerned about saving face since Pres Hinckley’s days.

This is question 7 in the temple recommend:

“Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”

Based on this alone, no Democrat should hold a recommend little alone be in The 12.

 

Are you serious, or just trolling?

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