Should Elder Uchtdorf step down?

[ttribe]

8 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Perhaps there were reasons to lie.  I don't believe lying is always wrong. In fact there may be many situations where lying might be required.  I believe that if someone wants to be told the truth, they need to be mature to handle it in the right way.  If telling the truth might lead to danger, harm, injustice, ect, then lying is probably the best policy to keep the peace or maintain safety.  Some people may not deserve to know the truth.  They can't handle it.

Sounds suspiciously like rationalization.

[ttribe]

11 hours ago, Rivers said:

There’s always repentance.  

Until then, I need a new favorite apostle.

 

Why?

[mfbukowski]

15 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Why?

Omigosh.  I actually gave YOU a rep point!

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, mfbukowski said:

Omigosh.  I actually gave YOU a rep point!

[Risingtide]

Stepping down would be ridiculous, and do much more harm than good. We've had more than enough cancel culture.

[Teancum]

On 3/13/2021 at 1:13 PM, rongo said:

My dad thinks he should, because "he wasn't supposed to donate to campaigns, and he knew he wasn't supposed to, since 2011." I didn't know about this policy, and separate from the policy, my personal view is that apostles should be able to donate to whatever they want to, and it's none of our business. 

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/12/22326401/elder-dieter-uchtdorf-clarifies-family-campaign-donations-during-elections

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/03/12/family-dieter-uchtdorf/

I think that resigning is too harsh and unwarranted, but I do wonder what, if anything, he or the Church will say about this beyond the apology already reported in the news. I don't think it will be mentioned or brought up at all, personally.

What are others' thoughts on this? 

No he certainly should not step down over this paltry issue.  Absolutely not.

[gopher]

2 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Do they?

It would be foolish not to insist on some kind of reassurance from God in order to believe.  It may take time before it happens.  But we have almost 200 years of men, women, and children claiming it happened to them.

2 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

I think like with any spiritual test, facts were important to him too, along with feelings. 

Facts are important, at least our interpretation of them.  Feelings too, but that's not enough.  Being converted requires:

 

[LoudmouthMormon]

Quote

“These donations were made by our family using an online account, which is shared by our family and associated with my name,”
...
"The FEC’s website reports 11 donations over a four-and-a-half-month span for a total of $2,086.67 to three candidates, a political action committee and the Democratic National Committee.

 

Family dinner table:

"Grandson #12 and 14 did what?  Out of what account? For how long?  Get their mother on the phone - time for another chat."

 

Honestly folks, when heads of world religions decide to take an interest in politics, especially ours, they sure the heck move needles a lot more than two grand of donations spread across five different places.  People are seriously thinking Pres U took out his checkbook because that sounded like a good idea?

[BlueDreams]

9 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Honestly folks, when heads of world religions decide to take an interest in politics, especially ours, they sure the heck move needles a lot more than two grand of donations spread across five different places.  People are seriously thinking Pres U took out his checkbook because that sounded like a good idea?

Even if he personally did it (which I trust what Uchtdorf said and sounds like a reasonable and common error) I don’t see how this says much of anything. We already have a church that’s stance on political party is officially neutral and allows people to vote according to whatever they feel is right or represents themselves best. There’s people who vote both ways on this thread, in wards, and around the country. And completely differently all together in different countries with very different parties and political climates. So to clutch at one’s chest and wonder about resigning on this one seems way over-reactive. 
 

with luv, 

BD 

[mfbukowski]

23 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Because at least one person thinks that the oversight (or lack thereof) by Elder Uchtdorf is grounds for stripping him of his office.  I think, and I think most people would think, that such a step is totally unreasonable and unwarranted, but that doesn't change the fact that the person who holds the opinion thinks that such a drastic step is, in fact, reasonable or that it would be warranted.  I cannot and will not speak for the opening poster, but perhaps he wanted to find out whether such a seemingly-extreme view is, in fact, widespread.

I have a property in another state that my son manages- and we have a joint account for that property.  I can easily see how a family member in another situation might write a check on the wrong account without even thinking of the consequences.  You can easily just grab the nearest checkbook and write it and send it without much thought

[Peacefully]

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I don't want to drag this into politics any more than it already is, but you may need to be more aware of how it sounds when you write "...more moderate-leaning people..." when writing about someone who donates to Democrat candidates. This implies that you think Democrats are somehow "moderate" and perhaps that Republicans are extremists. I can assure you that there are extremists in both parties. And of course those extremists love to label their opponents as extremists, just as they buff their nails in pride at their own "moderation".

Not at all. I was specifically referring to Biden as a moderate since his campaign received the donation. For the record, I am neither Democrat nor Republican. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Peacefully

[Meadowchik]

42 minutes ago, gopher said:

It would be foolish not to insist on some kind of reassurance from God in order to believe.  It may take time before it happens.  But we have almost 200 years of men, women, and children claiming it happened to them.

Facts are important, at least our interpretation of them.  Feelings too, but that's not enough.  Being converted requires:

 

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that real conversion means acceptance of Joseph Smith's polygamy? Therefore what? My point is that he trusted the church's word and was lied to, only to find out Joseph Smith practiced what he believes was wrong. 

Regardless of your opinion of polygamy, hopefully you would agree that people are right to expect honesty about it from the church.

[teddyaware]

On 3/13/2021 at 2:33 PM, CA Steve said:

I think a more important question is, has Elder Uchtdorf dammed himself by committing the unpardonable sin of denying the spirt of the Holy Republicanism?

Spirit should have a capital S.

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

So why is Joseph the testimony breaker?  We're ok with Brigham but not Joseph doing it?

I am Not ok with any of them doing it.

[teddyaware]

35 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I have a property in another state that my son manages- and we have a joint account for that property.  I can easily see how a family member in another situation might write a check on the wrong account without even thinking of the consequences.  You can easily just grab the nearest checkbook and write it and send it without much thought

Your post just caused my suspicions to become aroused. Could it be that a disgruntled member of the family pulled this stunt as a deliberate act of sabotage, knowing it might very well get Elder Uchtdorf into hot water? Maybe one or more of the smiling faces in the Uchtdorf family he  photos is just for the camera? Anything’s possible in this crazy post-modern (😏) world.

[california boy]

You don’t have to be perfect to be an apostle.  Peter denied knowing Christ and he didn’t resign. 

[gopher]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that real conversion means acceptance of Joseph Smith's polygamy? Therefore what? My point is that he trusted the church's word and was lied to, only to find out Joseph Smith practiced what he believes was wrong. 

Regardless of your opinion of polygamy, hopefully you would agree that people are right to expect honesty about it from the church.

I guess I'm not sure of what your point was either.  Back to the OP:

[Meadowchik]

3 minutes ago, gopher said:

I guess I'm not sure of what your point was either.  Back to the OP:

 

My point was pretty clear, I was answering another poster's question about why Joseph Smith polygamy bothers some people more than Brigham Young polygamy.

[rpn]

18 hours ago, rongo said:

 he has a political donation account in his name

What I've read, it was a bank account that was used to make the donation, so I'm not assuming it is a political account.

[rpn]

19 hours ago, rongo said:

That isn't true; apostles have been removed before or dropped from the quorum --- with or without excommunication. I'm not saying that this rises or should rise to that at all, but resignation or removal of apostles is hypothetically possible, just as it is for seventies

Not in lots of years, and only with excommunication (and political donations are among the offenses that might lead to that).

[MustardSeed]

I don't need to add my opinion, but I will.

No, he should not have to resign over this "situation."  If we can even call it that, IMO.

Also, we need more handsome men at the helm, not less for Petes sake. 

Also I suspect, though it's unfair to, that this is a situation of "Bitter, table for one?"

[Stargazer]

5 hours ago, Peacefully said:

Not at all. I was specifically referring to Biden as a moderate since his campaign received the donation. For the record, I am neither Democrat nor Republican. 

I understand. But then comes the question of whether he's a moderate or an extremist. Opinions vary. But that is a topic for another board on another day.

For the record, I am a libertarian who tends to vote Republican.

[InCognitus]

6 hours ago, gopher said:

Facts are important, at least our interpretation of them.  Feelings too, but that's not enough.  Being converted requires:

I gave you an up vote for your post, but I wish I could give a second one for your song choice making your point (good group!)

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I don't want to drag this into politics any more than it already is, but you may need to be more aware of how it sounds when you write "...more moderate-leaning people..." when writing about someone who donates to Democrat candidates. This implies that you think Democrats are somehow "moderate" and perhaps that Republicans are extremists. I can assure you that there are extremists in both parties. And of course those extremists love to label their opponents as extremists, just as they buff their nails in pride at their own "moderation".

I very much agree with this. There is too much of painting those who voted Republican in the last election as extremists. It is tearing the country apart — and feeding the currently prevailing cancel culture. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I very much agree with this. There is too much of painting those who voted Republican in the last election as extremists. It is tearing the country apart — and feeding the currently prevailing cancel culture. 

It goes both ways when Dems are called liberals or socialists all the time. And it sure does divide, I long for the old days. Or days where families, friends, neighbors aren't divided over politics.  ETA: I'm a registered republican, but doubt that will continue. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Tacenda