Jump to content

"Mother" and "Father" Erased at British University


Recommended Posts

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

I would think with the way we promote eternal families we would see more of this in the church, 

Yup.

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

especially living as close as so many do, and our emphasis on prudent living, but we have been raised in our greater culture adults that living at home is a bad thing, nor do we have cultural standards that could aid in less friction between individuals, especially generations...mother in law jokes promote the idea they will never get along...the whole “my house, my rules” attitudes for another, we aren’t taught to share as much anymore.  In middle and higher incomes, I hardly ever see kids sharing bedrooms. 

I think it takes a lot of skill to create good relationships with multiple people of different personalities.

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have seen mothers and fathers come into their adult child’s home and start ordering everyone around as if their right as matriarch/patriarch rather than treating adult children as true, equal companions.  It makes sense people put off living with each other...

Authoritarians may create effective peace, but without creating mutually beneficial, productive relationships.

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

It makes sense people put off living with each other...and if one might consider it, media and everything are constantly showing us how hard it is to live together.  

It is hard to live together. I think it takes active, deliberate restructuring to transform parent-child relationships into mutually beneficial cohabitating adults relationships. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
8 hours ago, Duncan said:

more americans died because of covid than died in WW2, it's like they are their own worst enemy

No, you're incorrect. US military deaths from all causes in WW2: 407,300. Covid deaths during 2020: 327,847.

And then we have: More americans died of heart disease in 2020 (675,068) than in WW2, and same with cancer (590,518).

Just for the sake of accuracy. It's still quite bad.

  • Like 1
Link to post
6 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

A woman at our local bakery in France has this. Her parents bought a generous parcel and over time the adult children built their homes on it. There are standing regular activities and shared spaces. The cousins are great friends and the parents have lots of support. I found this super interesting because there seemed to be no dogmatic motivation, just the desire to extend family relationships in a mutually beneficial way for all.

I saw this in my previous ward, the original nuclear family bought a large land parcel a number of decades ago, put a house on one corner, and raised their family on it. As their kids grew up, they split the land into subparcels, gave them to their children, who then built homes on them. It was a marvelous little community. While it lasted, anyway. By the time I moved away from the area, the original parents had long since passed away and almost none of their descendants lived in the community any longer. But it was fun while it lasted.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
6 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

It is typical moral panic, the kind often seen in very politically-biased media. And imo it often comes with a cynical view of the world and people and families.

And it comes from both (or all) sides of the fence, too.

Link to post
2 hours ago, Calm said:

I would think with the way we promote eternal families we would see more of this in the church, especially living as close as so many do, and our emphasis on prudent living, but we have been raised in our greater culture adults that living at home is a bad thing, nor do we have cultural standards that could aid in less friction between individuals, especially generations...mother in law jokes promote the idea they will never get along...the whole “my house, my rules” attitudes for another, we aren’t taught to share as much anymore.  In middle and higher incomes, I hardly ever see kids sharing bedrooms.  I have seen mothers and fathers come into their adult child’s home and start ordering everyone around as if their right as matriarch/patriarch rather than treating adult children as true, equal companions.  It makes sense people put off living with each other...and if one might consider it, media and everything are constantly showing us how hard it is to live together.  

In a previous post I mentioned one family that had a parcel of land that was subparceled out to children, so the extended family was together, but what drove the eventual dispersal of the extended family wasn't anything cultural, per se, but the natural tendency of people to seek their own careers which frequently led to moving away.

My wife loves her very active five grandchildren, but would prefer not to live with them, as she rather enjoys a bit of placidity. When we go to visit them it is like visiting a colony of bees -- they are all over the place (and the three dogs and a cat add to it of course). The mother of that exciting brood would like it if we could all live in the same "compound", but my wife isn't so keen on the idea! I think it might be quite interesting -- those kids may not be my own flesh and blood, but they are all quite intriguing personalities, and it would be nice to be able to watch and interact with them as they grow into themselves.

Link to post
1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

No, you're incorrect. US military deaths from all causes in WW2: 407,300. Covid deaths during 2020: 327,847.

And then we have: More americans died of heart disease in 2020 (675,068) than in WW2, and same with cancer (590,518).

Just for the sake of accuracy. It's still quite bad.

the numbers I see for US deaths due to covid is 530K, but you're right it's all bad all around and no death ever is insignificant

Link to post
5 minutes ago, Duncan said:

the numbers I see for US deaths due to covid is 530K, but you're right it's all bad all around and no death ever is insignificant

I got my figures from this site: USA Facts. FWIW.

This site says:

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) keeps a provisional death count related to COVID-19. The deaths counted in that data are well below those compiled from the state and county levels because the provisional count is based on death certificates that may take weeks to filter up to the federal agency.

"The data also includes deaths attributed to pneumonia or influenza. According to the CDC, deaths caused by COVID-19 might be misclassified as pneumonia or influenza deaths in the death certificates. For that reason, the number of deaths caused by COVID-19 is likely higher than the confirmed data indicates. It is also higher than the daily counts USAFacts compiles from state and local sources."

 

Link to post
18 hours ago, Calm said:

I disagree.  I think the optimum form is the family compound (individual family and personal living spaces along with shared social areas) where aging grandparents can both contribute and be cared for, additional adults are able to help care for children, single family members are not left on their own when sick, etc.

Nuclear families on their own are more susceptible to financial ups and downs and lack of support of a parent or parents on injured.

Sort of like Waco and The Branch Davidians?  🤔

Link to post
18 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

All of those other forms have been around a long time. The nuclear family as the ideal, however, is a relatively new concept in many regions of the world, but isn't even the ideal in many parts of the world, and never has been in many parts of the world. It certainly is not the historical formula for households in general.

 

Why is mother, father, and children better than mother, father, and grandparent(s)?

Nope, this is not necessarily true. Sometimes it is better for mother and father to not live together, sometimes it is better for one or both to not be a caregiver. 

Beyond that, a caregiver is better than no caregiver. One healthy parent relationship is better than none. Two healthy parent relationships is better than one. Healthy parents with a healthy support system of other caregivers in the household can be better than just the parents.

I think that the optimum is that, first, children are cared for in healthy environments. Second, that people care for each other in healthy environments including healthy households. 

This concern over more inclusive vocabulary seems like moral panic. It seems better to me to focus on not hindering healthy relationships, and helping people have access to healthy environments. 

Smac supports his view because his religion tells him it is best. And his religion is still stuck in and on the 1950s family as seen on Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver and Happy Days.  And why did the LDS Church start to really advocate for this?  Well it was because they wanted to become mainstream and also became opposed to the non nuclear family that results from plural marriage.

Link to post

[Deleted link.]  Blast it!  Gopher beat me to it! ;):D 

"No, no, Johnny, that's not your mom.  That's your parental ... entity!"

 

Edited by Kenngo1969
Link to post
1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Smac supports his view because his religion tells him it is best. And his religion is still stuck in and on the 1950s family as seen on Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver and Happy Days.  And why did the LDS Church start to really advocate for this?  Well it was because they wanted to become mainstream and also became opposed to the non nuclear family that results from plural marriage.

Nonsense.  There is plenty of sound social science research that says that family structure has a lot to do with one's success and happiness.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Sort of like Waco and The Branch Davidians?  🤔

So everyone in the Branch Davidian compound was related?  Hmm.  Who knew?  I'd like to check that out.  Do you have a link to that information?

Link to post
5 hours ago, gopher said:

Can we panic now?

Does panic actually help anything?

  • Like 1
Link to post
2 hours ago, Teancum said:

Sort of like Waco and The Branch Davidians?  🤔

No

One version is multigenerational housing  

 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
5 hours ago, gopher said:

Here's another school that is also discouraging the use of mom and dad.  Can we panic now?

Again that is in ambiguous situations and a more generic term is preferred. No one is upset if a child refers to their mom. It is just when referring to groups. Same thing. It is more inclusive and more accurate. It is not even completely about gay parents. If one of my brothers and their spouse were to die and I were to raise their kids I am not their parent but I would fit better as a “guardian” or whatever which is also accurate in the more common setup of a mother and father.

On an emotional level when used in the aggregate it is less likely to distress kids in less “conventional” setups including kids in foster care and other legitimately traumatic situations.

You can panic all you want. I prefer to reserve my panicking for things that actually justify panic. You can even say it is erasing the terms “mom” and “dad”. You would just be wrong if you do so.

31 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

"Expressing concern" is panicking?  Hmm.  :huh::unsure:   Who knew? :unknw:

We have people tying the apocalyptic warnings of the prophets to this which suggests panic if sincere.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

the natural tendency of people to seek their own careers which frequently led to moving away.

This is a big issue, people would have to make career choices based on where they want to live rather than the reverse. Not everyone can manage that.  I have a brother who has lived overseas for most of his married life, minus Covid they visit once a year and push all the family stuff into a month or so. I am not saying this is the best way for everyone to live, I just find it unusual that the Church doesn’t have a significant number in it that go this route given how many I see here in Utah living within a few minutes of parents and grandparents. 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
4 minutes ago, Calm said:

This is a big issue, people would have to make career choices based on where they want to live rather than the reverse. Not everyone can manage that. 

I agree. In times past, people tended to stay where their families dwelt as they were growing up. Because most people pursued the same career, namely, farming. Nowadays, few pursue farming as a career. And opportunities are now quite diverse. It is usually the case that people have to go where the opportunities are.

Link to post
8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

We have people tying the apocalyptic warnings of the prophets to this which suggests panic if sincere.

I suspect you are well aware of what panic looks like. Being able to write coherent analysis or even semi coherent, even when wrong, tends to disprove the idea of panic.  Plus a lot of people see the last days as an expected, planned for event so even seeing signs isn’t a reason to panic for them. 

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
9 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I agree. In times past, people tended to stay where their families dwelt as they were growing up. Because most people pursued the same career, namely, farming. Nowadays, few pursue farming as a career. And opportunities are now quite diverse. It is usually the case that people have to go where the opportunities are.

I suspect it may be a first step in attempts to create a United Order.  It will be interesting to see if multigenerational homes become much more common in the US, especially after this pandemic where quarantines meant significant difficulties in caring for seniors and elderly (no one in the family had been able to touch my mom for 9 months by the time she died due to the assisted living efforts to keep their residents from getting ill, as of that nine months no one had died or even been hospitalized I believe of infectious diseases, so they had done well, but what a cost).

It is not something I would have wanted to with most of my family for various reasons. 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
12 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

A woman at our local bakery in France has this. Her parents bought a generous parcel and over time the adult children built their homes on it. There are standing regular activities and shared spaces. The cousins are great friends and the parents have lots of support. I found this super interesting because there seemed to be no dogmatic motivation, just the desire to extend family relationships in a mutually beneficial way for all.

My husband and I are planning to buy a few acres with room for a home for us and room for our kids to build homes, if they so desire. My daughter and her husband are very interested and we have even discussed having a shared swimming pool. We live in the same neighborhood now so we’ve gotten used to walking to each other’s houses, having dinners together, helping each other with projects, and borrowing the proverbial cup of sugar, etc. It’s been a godsend to be so close during the pandemic. Our own family compound:)

Edited by Peacefully
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
9 minutes ago, Calm said:

I suspect it may be a first step in attempts to create a United Order.  It will be interesting to see if multigenerational homes become much more common in the US, especially after this pandemic where quarantines meant significant difficulties in caring for seniors and elderly (no one in the family had been able to touch my mom for 9 months by the time she died due to the assisted living efforts to keep their residents from getting ill, as of that nine months no one had died or even been hospitalized I believe of infectious diseases, so they had done well, but what a cost).

It is not something I would have wanted to with most of my family for various reasons. 

My wife remarked earlier this week that she was glad her mother (also Alzheimers) passed in 2015 and had not waited until this benighted time when she would have been all alone. But her brother, who has Downs Syndrome, has not had a family visitor for over a year, now. Best we've been able to do is talk to him briefly through a mostly-shut window. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
6 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

My husband and I are planning to buy a few acres with room for a home for us and room for our kids to build homes, if they so desire. My daughter and her husband are very interested and we have even discussed having a shared swimming pool. We live in the same neighborhood now so we’ve gotten used to walking to each other’s houses, having dinners together, helping each other with projects, and borrowing the proverbial cup of sugar, etc. It’s been a godsend to be so close during the pandemic. Our own family compound:)

We're moving in that direction. Our house used to be a farmhouse attached to a barn, and since being made all livable it has three units minimum. We have renters now but plan to re-inhabit them with different branches of our family: Grandparents at ground level, sister in law in the detached studio, parents and minor children in main house, with the third apartment available for the adult kids if they wish. They may not decide to live in the area permanently, but for me it's ideal if we have a space for them if they do or atleast when they visit. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post

We plan on moving closer to our kids when we downsize, within almost easy walking distance...but have promised definitely not next door because my husband will just pop in without calling first, which distracts the kids and derails plans. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...