"Mother" and "Father" Erased at British University

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, gopher said:

Here's another school that is also discouraging the use of mom and dad.  Can we panic now?

Don't know if your question is sarcastic. But no panic needed. Recently I sub'd in a class that had a young boy with super long hair and looked like a girl. Luckily I never addressed him that way, but maybe he was trans I don't know. One of the students made it clear to me that he is a boy, not within earshot of the student with long hair. So I think it might be a great idea to follow the article you provided and say "friends" instead of ladies and gentlemen or boys and girls. Thanks! 

For example what if there is a trans student in class and inside they feel the opposite sex, maybe we better quit splitting up sides as in boys on one side, girls on another, and so on. Just group and split them up.

I know when my husband and I get with friends and play games, sometimes the wives are one team and the husbands on another. Maybe we need to take each incident separately and apply as needed in the circumstance we're in.

I don't know if I should bring it up, but I don't believe in "cancel culture", I believe in creating a better culture, if there is racism in books or cartoons or whatever. Not canceling, just making it better. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Tacenda

[Derl Sanderson]

On 3/11/2021 at 1:32 PM, Duncan said:

I think it's presumptuous for for the US, and I love you all, to tell others how to live when like 1000 Americans die everyday from covid, solve your problems before you start mucking around others, people dying and the government or shear arrogance is unwilling or unable to do anything about it. You know what else "disintegrates" the family, death

That's right. You're way ahead of us anyway with bill C-16 passing into law.

[Duncan]

51 minutes ago, Derl Sanderson said:

That's right. You're way ahead of us anyway with bill C-16 passing into law.

Never heard of it until you mentioned it, so I had to look it up-ALL are invited to come unto Christ!

Edited March 13, 2021 by Duncan

[rongo]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Don't know if your question is sarcastic. But no panic needed. Recently I sub'd in a class that had a young boy with super long hair and looked like a girl. Luckily I never addressed him that way, but maybe he was trans I don't know. One of the students made it clear to me that he is a boy, not within earshot of the student with long hair. So I think it might be a great idea to follow the article you provided and say "friends" instead of ladies and gentlemen or boys and girls. Thanks!  

First day of school in 2009, last period of the day, and I'm calling roll. To the name Abdullah Collins, a white boy with long hair and a smirk answers. "You're Abdullah Collins? Can I see your student ID?" Sure enough, he really is Abdullah Collins. "But, I go by Dane, if you don't mind." 

Come to find out, I went to junior high with his mother (when I did the math, she must have had him when she was 15). She just liked the name Abdullah --- no connection to Islam at all.

It's best not to assume anything, especially nowadays.  

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

First day of school in 2009, last period of the day, and I'm calling roll. To the name Abdullah Collins, a white boy with long hair and a smirk answers. "You're Abdullah Collins? Can I see your student ID?" Sure enough, he really is Abdullah Collins. "But, I go by Dane, if you don't mind." 

Come to find out, I went to junior high with his mother (when I did the math, she must have had him when she was 15). She just liked the name Abdullah --- no connection to Islam at all.

It's best not to assume anything, especially nowadays.  

Why did you ask for his ID?

[rongo]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Why did you ask for his ID?

To see if he really was named Abdullah. From the smirk on his face, it seemed like he was joking. He did have a joking manner about him, as the year went on --- a fun kid, not too much of classroom poison, but not a model student, either. 

Kids sometimes say they are someone they aren't, especially on the first day. That's actually the first and only time I've checked an ID out of skepticism. 

He didn't look like an Abdullah to me.  That's what I get for assuming. 

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

First day of school in 2009, last period of the day, and I'm calling roll. To the name Abdullah Collins, a white boy with long hair and a smirk answers. "You're Abdullah Collins? Can I see your student ID?" Sure enough, he really is Abdullah Collins. "But, I go by Dane, if you don't mind." 

Come to find out, I went to junior high with his mother (when I did the math, she must have had him when she was 15). She just liked the name Abdullah --- no connection to Islam at all.

It's best not to assume anything, especially nowadays.  

Abdullah, according to the rudimentary sources I have consulted, means "slave of God" or "follower of God."  I'm not sure how religious his mom was or the family was, but, in any case, certainly, we cannot have too many followers of God, especially these days.

 

[gopher]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Again that is in ambiguous situations and a more generic term is preferred. No one is upset if a child refers to their mom. It is just when referring to groups. Same thing. It is more inclusive and more accurate. It is not even completely about gay parents. If one of my brothers and their spouse were to die and I were to raise their kids I am not their parent but I would fit better as a “guardian” or whatever which is also accurate in the more common setup of a mother and father.

On an emotional level when used in the aggregate it is less likely to distress kids in less “conventional” setups including kids in foster care and other legitimately traumatic situations.

You can panic all you want. I prefer to reserve my panicking for things that actually justify panic. You can even say it is erasing the terms “mom” and “dad”. You would just be wrong if you do so.

We have people tying the apocalyptic warnings of the prophets to this which suggests panic if sincere.

I'm not panicking, but I'm not convinced that it's really that distressing to the children at a school that costs over $57,000 a year to attend to hear the phrases "mom" and "dad".  It sounds more like grown ups trying to appear inclusive while working at a very exclusive school.

What if a mom or dad wants the school to refer to them as their child's "mom" or "dad"?  Isn't much of the discussion today about groups insisting on being called by the names they choose for themselves instead of others making that choice for them?  Being referred to as a "dad" is one of my greatest honors and is one of the titles that brings me the most satisfaction.  Our society insists that we use the pronouns people pick for themselves, why can't we also insist that we retain the terms "mom" and "dad"?

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

To see if he really was named Abdullah. From the smirk on his face, it seemed like he was joking. He did have a joking manner about him, as the year went on --- a fun kid, not too much of classroom poison, but not a model student, either. 

Kids sometimes say they are someone they aren't, especially on the first day. That's actually the first and only time I've checked an ID out of skepticism. 

He didn't look like an Abdullah to me.  That's what I get for assuming. 

I could tell you stories! Funny what students say and do with sub's. But most of the time, I just love being among them, children are so much more mature than I was at their age, and they show me all the time how to be a better human, most are caring & loving toward their classmates. I have no worries with this generation. I mostly sub in elementary though, haha!

Edited March 13, 2021 by Tacenda

[gopher]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Don't know if your question is sarcastic. But no panic needed. Recently I sub'd in a class that had a young boy with super long hair and looked like a girl. Luckily I never addressed him that way, but maybe he was trans I don't know. One of the students made it clear to me that he is a boy, not within earshot of the student with long hair. So I think it might be a great idea to follow the article you provided and say "friends" instead of ladies and gentlemen or boys and girls. Thanks! 

For example what if there is a trans student in class and inside they feel the opposite sex, maybe we better quit splitting up sides as in boys on one side, girls on another, and so on. Just group and split them up.

I know when my husband and I get with friends and play games, sometimes the wives are one team and the husbands on another. Maybe we need to take each incident separately and apply as needed in the circumstance we're in.

I don't know if I should bring it up, but I don't believe in "cancel culture", I believe in creating a better culture, if there is racism in books or cartoons or whatever. Not canceling, just making it better. 

Oh, I was totally being sarcastic.  I wanted to troll Nehor to see if he would come back with something witty or clever.

[Tacenda]

20 minutes ago, gopher said:

I'm not panicking, but I'm not convinced that it's really that distressing to the children at a school that costs over $57,000 a year to attend to hear the phrases "mom" and "dad".  It sounds more like grown ups trying to appear inclusive while working at a very exclusive school.

What if a mom or dad wants the school to refer to them as their child's "mom" or "dad"?  Isn't much of the discussion today about groups insisting on being called by the names they choose for themselves instead of others making that choice for them?  Being referred to as a "dad" is one of my greatest honors and is one of the titles that brings me the most satisfaction.  Our society insists that we use the pronouns people pick for themselves, why can't we also insist that we retain the terms "mom" and "dad"?

I see no issue at all with that, why wouldn't any school honor that. I worry just because I've no idea if the student has a mom and dad, or just a dad or just a mom or any other situation. So I guess to be safe we could say guardian until we know exactly who we're talking about.

[The Nehor]

36 minutes ago, gopher said:

I'm not panicking, but I'm not convinced that it's really that distressing to the children at a school that costs over $57,000 a year to attend to hear the phrases "mom" and "dad".  It sounds more like grown ups trying to appear inclusive while working at a very exclusive school.

What if a mom or dad wants the school to refer to them as their child's "mom" or "dad"?  Isn't much of the discussion today about groups insisting on being called by the names they choose for themselves instead of others making that choice for them?  Being referred to as a "dad" is one of my greatest honors and is one of the titles that brings me the most satisfaction.  Our society insists that we use the pronouns people pick for themselves, why can't we also insist that we retain the terms "mom" and "dad"?

It is for generic communications. In other words they are not speaking exclusively to the offended individuals you are devil’s advocating for here.

This is like someone yelling “goodnight everybody” and you standing up to say, “Excuse me, I prefer to be referred to as the Gopher from Winnie the Pooh.” You would rightfully be viewed as insane for multiple reasons. The terms are still “retained” when they fit. They are just not used in generalities.

Nevertheless if you want to get upset about this go nuts. I just reserve the right to mock and belittle your argument.

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Nonsense.  There is plenty of sound social science research that says that family structure has a lot to do with one's success and happiness.

And various types of family strucutres may be just as succesful as others.  And social science has nothing to do with the fact of what I said about Smac's view and the Church view.

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

So everyone in the Branch Davidian compound was related?  Hmm.  Who knew?  I'd like to check that out.  Do you have a link to that information?

I was joking.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

I was joking.

Hard to tell these days, given the way your attitudes and posting style have evolved.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

And various types of family strucutres may be just as succesful as others.  And social science has nothing to do with the fact of what I said about Smac's view and the Church view.

If the results of sound social science research indicate that a stable family, and, in many cases, a certain family structure, is very important to the healthy development of children, and if the Church promotes stable families and a certain family structure, then I would hardly say that one has nothing to do with the other. 

[Kenngo1969]

12 hours ago, gopher said:

... Our society insists that we use the pronouns people pick for themselves, why can't we also insist that we retain the terms "mom" and "dad"?

In our increasingly-Orwellian world of Crimethink and Crimespeak, all personal preferences should be treated equally, but some personal preferences (such as those of self-proclaimed aggrieved groups) are more equal than others.  Your individual views mean nothing, because, alas, you are a member of the benighted, un-PC masses, are, no doubt, a priori guilty of Crimethink and Crimespeak, and are not a member of any of the aggrieved groups in question so ...

[gopher]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Nevertheless if you want to get upset about this go nuts. I just reserve the right to mock and belittle your argument.

hmm, that's neither witty nor clever.  I'm disappointed.

[The Nehor]

54 minutes ago, gopher said:

hmm, that's neither witty nor clever.  I'm disappointed.

Maybe if you tipped better I would actually bring my A game.

[Stargazer]

On 3/13/2021 at 12:55 AM, rongo said:

To see if he really was named Abdullah. From the smirk on his face, it seemed like he was joking. He did have a joking manner about him, as the year went on --- a fun kid, not too much of classroom poison, but not a model student, either. 

Kids sometimes say they are someone they aren't, especially on the first day. That's actually the first and only time I've checked an ID out of skepticism. 

He didn't look like an Abdullah to me.  That's what I get for assuming. 

I've run into the occasional surprise, too. Though not in connection with school.

At work, years ago, there was a man I worked with who mentioned observing a Hindu celebration, and I said "Wait! You're Hindu?" He looked at me and said with a degree of annoyance, "Yes, what of it?" I replied, "Nothing, I was just startled, that's all." He looked nothing like someone from India -- typical Anglo-Saxon and blond. Turned out he had converted at some time. I was a little annoyed myself, that he looked like he thought it should be obvious, when it wasn't at all. I've known plenty of Hindus, but they've all been either from India, or were of Indian background. For that matter, I've known Indians who were of native Indian Christian background. And a couple of folks from India who were LDS, including a former poster here, @RenegadeOfPhunk, who hasn't been around for a looonnnggg time. 

But there was another amusing situation, also at work, when one of my good coworkers, a lovely little Vietnamese lady, was shocked that another of our Asian coworkers was Christian, and in fact an LDS bishop! It was terribly perplexing to her, since in her world-view, Asians were Buddhist, like her!  

A member family in my old ward in Washington state hailed from Mexico, and a couple of their children had somewhat Islamic names, but this was because Spanish culture was at one time dominated by Islam when Iberia was Muslim. And some names from that tradition are still current in Hispanic culture, much as many Spanish language words hail from Arabic.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Stargazer