Update on Masterpiece Cake Shop Case

[california boy]

8 hours ago, juliann said:

A significant minority of men will go out of their way to gain access to preferred victims. You can't be this clueless, CB. This never happens in schools, churches, with coaches, youth organizations, right? 

 

Hello??????? Men don't have to do anything but say they are a woman now. No wigs necessary. And you are seriously asking if women can be stalked anywhere? Does it not occur to you that is why we want and need protected spaces?

You seriously need to educate yourself. You are obviously oblivious to any stats that aren't put out by advocacy groups. So let's ask you a question. How many of the males being sent to women's prisons are sex offenders or have committed violence against women? I mean, they wouldn't even consider putting an intact male who had tortured women and raped them in a small cell with a biological female....right? 

 

I am open to looking at any data you might have to support your position.  As I stated earlier I don’t have a position on any transgender issues because I haven’t seen any studies showing increased risk to women in restrooms by transgender women.  So if you know something, please share it

[smac97]

27 minutes ago, california boy said:

I am open to looking at any data you might have to support your position.  As I stated earlier I don’t have a position on any transgender issues because I haven’t seen any studies showing increased risk to women in restrooms by transgender women.  So if you know something, please share it

One: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

Quote

Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show.

Male prisoners who were transferred to women’s jails during gender reassignment and women inmates who are transitioning committed seven of the 124 sex attacks recorded between 2010 and 2018. They occurred at HMP Low Newton in Co Durham, Foston Hall in Derbyshire, Peterborough, Bronzefield in Middlesex and New Hall, West Yorkshire.

 

[smac97]

Another: https://news.wttw.com/2020/02/19/lawsuit-female-prisoner-says-she-was-raped-transgender-inmate

Quote

An inmate at Illinois’ largest women’s prison says she was raped by a transgender inmate who was transferred into her housing unit last year, and claims Illinois Department of Corrections officials conducted a “sham investigation” to help cover up the incident.

In a federal lawsuit filed last week, a Jane Doe inmate at the Logan Correctional Center in central Illinois said that after being sexually assaulted in June 2019, she was coerced by a supervisory officer into denying the attack took place and then punished for filing a “false” complaint under the Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA).

The suit names Logan’s acting warden Beatrice Calhoun as a defendant, along with officers Brent Keeler and Todd Sexton.

“The transfer of transgender inmates from male to female prisons has been a contentious policy within IDOC,” the plaintiff’s Peoria-based attorneys wrote in a five-page complaint. “In an attempt to justify the transfers, Defendants Sexton, Calhoun, Keeler and currently other unknown IDOC employees covered up the sexual assault of Plaintiff and tried to falsely classify it as consensual, to keep it from being considered a PREA violation.”

 

[smac97]

https://news.yahoo.com/news/hundreds-transgender-california-inmates-request-202324393.html

Quote

The California prison system has received 261 applications since January 1 from transgender, intersex, or non-binary inmates to transfer to facilities that match their preferred gender identity, the Los Angeles Times reported on Monday.

The requests were filed after a state law came into effect allowing transgender inmates to transfer to different prisons. Around 1 percent of prisoners in California, 1,129 inmates in total, have notified the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation that they are transgender, intersex, or non-binary.

 

 

The transfers have been welcomed by transgender women who reported suffering sexual violence while incarcerated at men’s prisons. However, inmates at Central California Women’s Facility in Chowchilla told the Times that staff have warned them of potential sexual violence from men who may try to take advantage of the transfer system.

Guards said “that if we think it’s bad now, be prepared for the worst. That it’s going to be off the hook, it’s going to be jumping,” inmate Tomiekia Johnson told the Times. “They say we’re going to need a facility that’s going to be like a maternity ward. They say we’re going to have an inmate program where inmates become nannies. 

he California initiative to consider transfer requests from transgender inmates was passed in part to align the state with the f Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003. The law requires prison agencies to decide on a case-by-case basis whether to transfer inmates based on their sexuaMassachusetts and Connecticut have legislation similar to California’s allowing inmate transfers. The first such transfer took place in 2019, after a transgender woman jailed in Massachusetts sued the state in order to be placed in a women’s prison.

 

[smac97]

https://mynorthwest.com/2666243/doc-washington-correctional-center-women-men-transfer/amp/

Quote

A half dozen men have been transferred to the Washington Correctional Center for Woman, according to an employee at the facility.

 

The employee tells KIRO Radio’s Dori Monson Show that the women’s facility in Pierce County has adopted the practice of allowing a transfer for any person who identifies as female. Those transfers are being housing in the general population with female cellmates, the employee says.

...

The concern among staff and inmates is a risk of sexual assault. The employee cites a recent incident in which an inmate from a male facility raped a female in the women’s prison upon arrival. The transferred inmate, according to the employee, is incarcerated for a sex offense and has “fully functional male genitalia, a history of violence and sexual depravity in the community, and has been found guilty of sexual assault against other inmates while housed in the men’s facilities.”

“He is a proven sexual predator, having committed multiple crimes against women, yet the State of Washington had no problem moving him into a women’s facility and housing him with the most vulnerable in our population (our mental health unit),” the employee wrote.

 

[Calm]

Apologies if repeats…I was taking notes yesterday and may have also posted…

anecdotes….

Christopher Hambrook falsely claimed to be transgender to gain access to assault women in a shelter.

https://torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender

 

Sherri (formerly Richard) Masbruch has been accused of raping inmates (torturing two women put him in prison).  Claim is they just keep moving him. 

Original case, quite horrific 

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1761574.html

https://prisonreformmovement.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/update-on-richardsherri-masbruch/

Appeal by one woman to be moved as Masbruch’s presence trigger anxiety attacks due to her history of trauma (women in prison have a much higher rate of abuse than the general population):

http://media.fresnobee.com/smedia/2008/12/05/16/ccwf_complaint.source.prod_affiliate.8.pdf

Assaulted women knowing she was HIV positive:

http://murderpedia.org/male.H/h/hall-maddison.htm

———

Stats….

longterm studies finds criminality rate stays the same for male to female (iow, transgender women are just as dangerous as nontrans male prisoners) while female to male increase criminality (transgender men are more dangerous than nontrans female prisoners).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Edited July 4, 2021 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

A safe space is not just about being safe, but feeling safe as well. A woman will not see a shelter as an alternative to domestic abuse if she does not feel she would be safe there. Women who have been targets of harassment and abuse won’t venture to gyms, rec centers, public parks, etc if they don’t feel safe in the public or private restrooms and lockers they would need to use in order to have extended time away from home. 

So transgender people are dangerous? Do you mean like back in the 60s and 70s when white women felt unsafe with black families moving into "their" neighborhoods? 

 

PS. Came back to add this because I just read a new thread Scott started about the boy scouts. How do you feel about the Boy Scouts letting girls join a all male organization? Is that a safe situation? Let's say it's a troop of 15 males and 1 female, how safe is that? That's what I don't understand about this argument. You're arguing females have the right to fell "safe" meaning biological males are dangerous, but at the same time femenist are trying to break down any organization that is male only traditionally, even for young boys. 

  Using your logic, would college campuses be safer if we separated the sexes again in the name of safety? We could do an experiment, let's make University of Virginia all female and Virginia Tech all male. If rape and harassment claims go down then maybe we should try it throughout the USA, for safety.

Edited July 4, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[bsjkki]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753017/HELEN-JOYCE-argues-gender-self-identification-lobby-harming-children-women-trans-people.html

Edited July 4, 2021 by bsjkki

[bsjkki]

Source

Edited July 4, 2021 by bsjkki

[AtlanticMike]

32 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753017/HELEN-JOYCE-argues-gender-self-identification-lobby-harming-children-women-trans-people.html

So you read an article and now your possibly convinced that the T in lgbtq are a bunch of sexually predators? Or possibly faking being trans ? If so, does that mean the other letters represented, L Lesbian, G Gay, B Bisexual and Q Queer, should I question if they're also possibly faking ?

Edited July 4, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[california boy]

7 hours ago, smac97 said:

https://mynorthwest.com/2666243/doc-washington-correctional-center-women-men-transfer/amp/

 

Never mind 

Edited July 4, 2021 by california boy

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Source

My daughter is a lesbian and she's attracted to females, should she be allowed to shower with other women? All kinds of articles online about women raping women. Marie Claire magazine plus many other sources  talks about women raping women. You should check out those articles as well.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[california boy]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Apologies if repeats…I was taking notes yesterday and may have also posted…

anecdotes….

Christopher Hambrook falsely claimed to be transgender to gain access to assault women in a shelter.

https://torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender

 

Sherri (formerly Richard) Masbruch has been accused of raping inmates (torturing two women put him in prison).  Claim is they just keep moving him. 

Original case, quite horrific 

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1761574.html

https://prisonreformmovement.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/update-on-richardsherri-masbruch/

Appeal by one woman to be moved as Masbruch’s presence trigger anxiety attacks due to her history of trauma (women in prison have a much higher rate of abuse than the general population):

http://media.fresnobee.com/smedia/2008/12/05/16/ccwf_complaint.source.prod_affiliate.8.pdf

Assaulted women knowing she was HIV positive:

http://murderpedia.org/male.H/h/hall-maddison.htm

———

Stats….

longterm studies finds criminality rate stays the same for male to female (iow, transgender women are just as dangerous as nontrans male prisoners) while female to male increase criminality (transgender men are more dangerous than nontrans female prisoners).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

I think everyone would agree that prison bathrooms are not safe places.  But what is being discussed is whether normal bathrooms are safe if transgenders share them with women.   Does anyone  have any incidents where a transgender woman ***aulted a woman in a bathroom?

I am on vacation right now and don’t have good cell service but I do want to respond.  I can comment more later. 

[california boy]

50 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753017/HELEN-JOYCE-argues-gender-self-identification-lobby-harming-children-women-trans-people.html

We really aren’t talking about violence in prisons here, we are talking about whether it is safe for women to allow a transgender to use the woman’s bathroom. I am asking how often a transgender has sexually assaulted a woman in a bathroom.  If this is a big issue where is the data on this issue?   So far no one has reported even one case.  To me, that makes this a non issue and is similar to being afraid of black peoples moving into a white neighborhood.  
 

so please let’s see the data on restroom assaults by transgenders in public restrooms and then decide if this is a real issue or just prejudice.  Like I. said earlier, I don’t have an opinion on this because I don’t know the data. But I am not going to make a judgment based on unfounded fear.  

[Bernard Gui]

How do the women and girls in restrooms, spas, dressing rooms, prisons, etc., know if the person with the male parts is trans or not?

[Fether]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

so please let’s see the data on restroom assaults by transgenders in public restrooms and then decide if this is a real issue or just prejudice.  Like I. said earlier, I don’t have an opinion on this because I don’t know the data. But I am not going to make a judgment based on unfounded fear.  

I think it is a matter of feeling uncomfortable more than being unsafe. If women started coming into men’s bathroom and showers, I wouldnt be concerned about being assaulted… I would just feel uncomfortable

Edited July 4, 2021 by Fether

[bsjkki]

11 minutes ago, Fether said:

I think it is a matter of feeling uncomfortable more than being unsafe. If women started coming into men’s bathroom and showers, I wouldnt be concerned about being assaulted… I would just feel uncomfortable

Please don’t speak for women. Twenty percent of women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime compared to 1 in 71 men. 

[california boy]

13 minutes ago, Fether said:

I think it is a matter of feeling uncomfortable more than being unsafe. If women started coming into men’s bathroom and showers, I wouldnt be concerned about being assaulted… I would just feel uncomfortable

So if white women feel uncomfortable with black women using the same restroom, then what do we do?

I agree that women should feel safe when using the restroom and if it turns out that transgenders are attacking women in restrooms then measures should be taken   But if that fear is not actually based on anything but fear, then overcoming that fear based on facts and education seems like a better approach   That is how we have dealt with unfounded fears in other situations in society 

 

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

How do the women and girls in restrooms, spas, dressing rooms, prisons, etc., know if the person with the male parts is trans or not?

Sometimes we know, sometimes we don’t. It was pretttttty obvious that the last trans person that I know of who attended RS in my ward was trans.  As her ministering sister I never visited her by myself.  Was I afraid of her? Naw.  But if you were married to me and at all protective, you’d have requested the same. She was large and strong.  Besides, she was unstable and had a lot of guns in her house. 

I forgot to add that for a solid portion of trans women who have had hormone surgery, it’s likely most of us haven’t noticed that they were trans.  

IMO it’s quite a complicated issue.  That said I find it interesting that men are telling women that they shouldn’t either be afraid or that they shouldn’t observe their fears.  As a survivor of attempted rape/murder along the Provo River I’ll decide how and when to feel safe and what to do if I don’t. FWIW

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by MustardSeed

[Fether]

50 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Please don’t speak for women. Twenty percent of women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime compared to 1 in 71 men. 

I didn’t intend on it. I probably poorly phrased it, but my intention was to say that even if the stats didn’t show that assault in bathrooms was an issue, there was still reason enough to not allow trans into bathrooms.

 

[Fether]

54 minutes ago, california boy said:

So if white women feel uncomfortable with black women using the same restroom, then what do we do?

 

Are you suggesting that potentially seeing someone of a different skin color is the same as potentially seeing someone of a different gender’s genitalia?

Edited July 4, 2021 by Fether

[SeekingUnderstanding]

58 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Please don’t speak for women. Twenty percent of women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime compared to 1 in 71 men. 

Not that I doubt but I’d love to see a source for that as well as a definition of sexual assault. I was sexually harassed once (girl grabbed my butt and tussled my hair in middle school). Even though it made me very uncomfortable at the time, I can’t imagine it compares to what women go through because I was never fearful for my physical safety. 

[bsjkki]

2 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Not that I doubt but I’d love to see a source for that as well as a definition of sexual assault. I was sexually harassed once (girl grabbed my butt and tussled my hair in middle school). Even though it made me very uncomfortable at the time, I can’t imagine it compares to what women go through because I was never fearful for my physical safety. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender
 

I meant to include that. 

[juliann]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

So if white women feel uncomfortable with black women using the same restroom, then what do we do?

I agree that women should feel safe when using the restroom and if it turns out that transgenders are attacking women in restrooms then measures should be taken   But if that fear is not actually based on anything but fear, then overcoming that fear based on facts and education seems like a better approach   That is how we have dealt with unfounded fears in other situations in society 

 

And if a guy feels uncomfortable about stats about transwomen attacking women, what should he do? Insert racism! of course. 

You are the one making this about bathrooms while you are being surrounded with accounts of problems women face in having their private spaces invaded by biological men. Stop ignoring the data by trying to divert the conversation. Not playing.

I'm pretty shocked at your disregard for women, BTW. It is always impressive when men, who have not spent their lives fearing women, lecture us on fear. Good grief. 

[juliann]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

Are you suggesting that potentially seeing someone of a different skin color is the same as potentially seeing someone of a different gender’s genitalia?

Why, yes he is! What better way to avoid having to acknowledge the growing number of sources being presented to him that might justify women's concerns in being forced into vulnerable situations?