Bombshell BYU announcement

[Calm]

I never said it was well written...the “less white” part is stupid, IMO.  I was talking about the generic part, being less defensive, arrogant, etc.

[CV75]

59 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

So you dont think the screenshot I provided is racist? What if you took the word white and replaced it with black, and had black people read it. Would that be racist?

I didn't realize you shared it as an example of racist messaging. Where did you find it, and was there a context or just someone's Facebook meme?

[CV75]

...and what of the suggestion I offered?

Edited March 7, 2021 by CV75

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Here's a screenshot  of what Dr. Robin DiAngelo teaches to people with my skin tone all around the USA. She says if I start doing these simple things she's listed, people of color will be more comfortable around me, do you think that's true?  

Yes.

[AtlanticMike]

58 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes.

Thanks for saying yes, it worked perfectly. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[AtlanticMike]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

I didn't realize you shared it as an example of racist messaging. Where did you find it, and was there a context or just someone's Facebook meme?

Yes. Its racist. I would never ask someone to be less of what they truly are. Reverse racism is still racism and that's exactly what this lady teaches. I pulled it off a site talking about how the Coca-Cola company had a training course suggesting their white employees be less white. Atleast that's how some of the people taking the course felt. The Dr. I mentioned gave an interview with Jimmy Kimmel, you can watch it on you tube, to me it's an amazing interview, amazingly awful. 

https://youtu.be/

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[AtlanticMike]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

...and what of the suggestion I offered?

I like your suggestion,  thank you.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Thanks for saying yes, it worked perfectly. 

It was an incredibly cunning trap that I did not see and I feel deeply owned by this rhetorical defeat.

[AtlanticMike]

34 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It was an incredibly cunning trap that I did not see and I feel deeply owned by this rhetorical defeat.

🤣🤣good come back. Glad to see you have a sense of humor in the morning. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[CV75]

12 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Yes. Its racist. I would never ask someone to be less of what they truly are. Reverse racism is still racism and that's exactly what this lady teaches. I pulled it off a site talking about how the Coca-Cola company had a training course suggesting their white employees be less white. Atleast that's how some of the people taking the course felt. The Dr. I mentioned gave an interview with Jimmy Kimmel, you can watch it on you tube, to me it's an amazing interview, amazingly awful. 

https://youtu.be/

Did she have anything to do with the BYU Committee's survey and report? I don't see her cited in it. I think the report should stand on its own merits.

Have you seen or participated in any surveys that measure "reverse racism"? 

[Meadowchik]

17 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Here's a screenshot  of what Dr. Robin DiAngelo teaches to people with my skin tone all around the USA. She says if I start doing these simple things she's listed, people of color will be more comfortable around me, do you think that's true?  

It looks like you misunderstand. "White" is a social construct that divides human beings into "white people" and "people of color." We cannot change the past, but we cannot ignore its impact either, and we can be aware of the existing power structure that benefits us. So "to be less white" means to not use that "whiteness" structure, to not take part in it. But this is a very difficult task, and so that list (to be less oppressive, to be less arrogant, to be less certain, less defensive, less ignorant, to be more humble, to listen, believe, to break with apathy and break with white solidarity) are all specific ways people can disrupt the structure of white supremacy. 

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

It looks like you misunderstand. "White" is a social construct that divides human beings into "white people" and "people of color." We cannot change the past, but we cannot ignore its impact either, and we can be aware of the existing power structure that benefits us. So "to be less white" means to not use that "whiteness" structure, to not take part in it. But this is a very difficult task, and so that list (to be less oppressive, to be less arrogant, to be less certain, less defensive, less ignorant, to be more humble, to listen, believe, to break with apathy and break with white solidarity) are all specific ways people can disrupt the structure of white supremacy. 

So I'm trying to understand your point of view. Are you saying that from our founding (1776), or even before that,  our system is set up to be a system of white supremacy? 

    

[Meadowchik]

3 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

So I'm trying to understand your point of view. Are you saying that from our founding (1776), or even before that,  our system is set up to be a system of white supremacy? 

    

Yes, of course, and has been maintained that way since despite significant steps forward.

[AtlanticMike]

10 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Yes, of course, and has been maintained that way since despite significant steps forward.

Then why is it today, 9 of the top ten countries that still sell slaves are all countries with a large non white majority? The only white country is a communist country, Russia. 45 to 50 million slaves/sex slaves world wide, but progressives are still worried about the past, why is that?

     

[CV75]

6 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Then why is it today, 9 of the top ten countries that still sell slaves are all countries with a large non white majority? The only white country is a communist country, Russia. 45 to 50 million slaves/sex slaves world wide, but progressives are still worried about the past, why is that?

This is like asking why the BYU survey doesn't address modern slavery instead of racism, or suggesting that the BYU survey results indicate the respondents are still worried about the past.

[Meadowchik]

14 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Then why is it today, 9 of the top ten countries that still sell slaves are all countries with a large non white majority? The only white country is a communist country, Russia. 45 to 50 million slaves/sex slaves world wide, but progressives are still worried about the past, why is that?

     

So if my neighbor hits his wife, I can tell her to stop crying, since more men kill their wives in other countries?

Geez.

Maybe the American colonists should have made sure every country in the world adopted the Magna Carta before adopting the Constitution.

Iow you're advocating an overly simplistic approach to human progress. 

 

[HappyJackWagon]

29 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Then why is it today, 9 of the top ten countries that still sell slaves are all countries with a large non white majority? The only white country is a communist country, Russia. 45 to 50 million slaves/sex slaves world wide, but progressives are still worried about the past, why is that?

     

I think you need to rethink your question. It's totally illogical.

 

[AtlanticMike]

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I think you need to rethink your question. It's totally illogical.

 

What's illogical? I asked meadowchick if the USA was founded on a system of white supremacy and she said, "of course". So I provided a map that shows that our system has pretty much eradicated slavery here, and also other majority white countries that have a similar government have done the same. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Meadowchik]

5 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

What's illogical? I asked meadowchick if the USA was founded on a system of white supremacy and she said, "of course". So I provided a map that shows that our system has pretty much eradicated slavery here, and also other majority white countries that have a similar government have done the same. 

White supremacy exists with and without slavery. By your logic, race should not be a protected class since slavery is legal in other countries. It is ridiculous.

[CV75]

16 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Yes. Its racist. I would never ask someone to be less of what they truly are. Reverse racism is still racism and that's exactly what this lady teaches. I pulled it off a site talking about how the Coca-Cola company had a training course suggesting their white employees be less white. Atleast that's how some of the people taking the course felt. The Dr. I mentioned gave an interview with Jimmy Kimmel, you can watch it on you tube, to me it's an amazing interview, amazingly awful. 

https://youtu.be/

 

Can you help me understand the concept of reverse racism better? I tired to get an idea from Wikipedia, but thought you might have a source that has an objective description that matches the way you see it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

Likewise, white supremacism has different meanings in different settings (How are you using it?). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

This definition might help as we compare your views of reverse racism with your views on white supremacy.

[HappyJackWagon]

32 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

What's illogical? I asked meadowchick if the USA was founded on a system of white supremacy and she said, "of course". So I provided a map that shows that our system has pretty much eradicated slavery here, and also other majority white countries that have a similar government have done the same. 

Its illogical because you're assuming that if something is a certain way today, then it must have been in 1776 as well, and vice versa.

You're not actually arguing against the idea that the US was originally founded and built up as a slave nation, are you? Or that racial slavery would be a pretty strong indicator of racial supremacy? 

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Can you help me understand the concept of reverse racism better? I tired to get an idea from Wikipedia, but thought you might have a source that has an objective description that matches the way you see it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

Likewise, white supremacism has different meanings in different settings (How are you using it?). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

This definition might help as we compare your views of reverse racism with your views on white supremacy.

Have a staunch defender of reverse racism.

 

[AtlanticMike]

33 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Can you help me understand the concept of reverse racism better? I tired to get an idea from Wikipedia, but thought you might have a source that has an objective description that matches the way you see it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

Likewise, white supremacism has different meanings in different settings (How are you using it?). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

This definition might help as we compare your views of reverse racism with your views on white supremacy.

Reverse racism is the list I provided. To ask someone to be less ignorant,  less certain, less oppressive all because of their skin color is racist. No matter their skin color. Reverse racism is fighting racism with racism, it's that simple. 

[CV75]

15 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Reverse racism is the list I provided. To ask someone to be less ignorant,  less certain, less oppressive all because of their skin color is racist. No matter their skin color. Reverse racism is fighting racism with racism, it's that simple. 

You use the list you provided as an example of provocation of your reaction of feeling racially fought against, but you are not defining or describing reverse racism. For example, there is an academic usage of the term "white supremacy" (see the link I provided) that we can use for discussion purposes. Is there a similarly objectively or empirically measured reference for the term "reverse racism"?

Edited March 8, 2021 by CV75

[AtlanticMike]

42 minutes ago, CV75 said:

You use the list you provided as an example of provocation of your reaction of feeling racially fought against, but you are not defining or describing reverse racism. For example, there is an academic usage of the term "white supremacy" (see the link I provided) that we can use for discussion purposes. Is there a similarly objectively or empirically measured reference for the term "reverse racism"?

First, do you think only white people can be racist? I'm asking so I can understand where you're coming from.

    Cv75, only watch the video below if you're ok with the F word every fifth word😁. David is a little worse than me when it comes to cussing. But, he explains perfectly how I see race. He and I could be twins and I'm proud of it. He's a cool dude. This video will help explain where I'm coming from.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by AtlanticMike