How are Jack Mormons, inactives/less actives, former investigators who are still favorable towards the LDS treated?

[poptart]

Was talking to a friend, we were both reflecting on how we were treated when life happened to us as children and how our relationship with our childhood denominations changed.  How are those who aren't fully active and faithful in the LDS church treated?  How about those who investigate the church, chose not to join yet still love the LDS church?

Edited March 1, 2021 by poptart

[JustAnAustralian]

I assume you mean treated by church members, so I'll answer based on that.

 

A few personal examples:

Family 1: Went inactive before having their names removed. I saw the husband twice after they stopped attending regularly. That was many years ago. I believe there are somewhat active people that will see them every so often, but don't know the details.

Family 2: Went inactive. Names still on records. Still happy to interact with church members, just not interested in coming to church.

 

Here at least (very much outside of the Utah bubble), I don't see any hostility to them.  The main thing I see is that they (the jacks/inactives/non-joiners) tend to disassociate themselves with regular interaction with church members that weren't also close friends. So in a busy world, they just end up in the same group as any other person with whom there isn't regular interaction.

 

 

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, poptart said:

Was talking to a friend, we were both reflecting on how we were treated when life happened to us as children and how our relationship with our childhood denominations changed.  How are those who aren't fully active and faithful in the LDS church treated?  How about those who investigate the church, chose not to join yet still love the LDS church?

Depends on the individual.  We have quite a few in-actives, a few nonmembers, some exmembers, one family antagonistic in our small town Utah ward,   Most members stay friendly to all, invite to any neighborhood parties, etc.  if they have kids, other kids play with them out on the street, probably still invite them inside as well, though I don’t hear about that now my kids are grown.  But I have no doubt humans being what they are, there have been some members that keep their distance.  Haven’t heard about any nastiness, but my main sources of ‘gossip’/neighborhood info tend to be really nice people, so they might be restrained in their criticism or we may just have a boring ward...though we did have a significant problem for awhile with one YW being a snob and setting up a clique with the help of her mom.  No one has ever treated me with anything but kindness, but it is well known my inactivity is due to health, like some others in the ward.

I have been in one ward that had a family more or less dominated the social side, rather elitist but the rest of the ward I loved.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Calm

[poptart]

15 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

I assume you mean treated by church members, so I'll answer based on that.

 

A few personal examples:

Family 1: Went inactive before having their names removed. I saw the husband twice after they stopped attending regularly. That was many years ago. I believe there are somewhat active people that will see them every so often, but don't know the details.

Family 2: Went inactive. Names still on records. Still happy to interact with church members, just not interested in coming to church.

 

Here at least (very much outside of the Utah bubble), I don't see any hostility to them.  The main thing I see is that they (the jacks/inactives/non-joiners) tend to disassociate themselves with regular interaction with church members that weren't also close friends. So in a busy world, they just end up in the same group as any other person with whom there isn't regular interaction.

 

 

Pretty much yes, church members.  My friend was and still is Catholic, a lapsed one.  I was Lutheran at the time.  Anyway, his parents split when he was about 12, the same age I was when my parents lost their home and we ended up living in an RV for a while.  Needless to say, both of us experienced the same thing, people kinda turned their backs on us and blamed our parents for our misery.  My friend faired a bit better, he went to Catholic school for a bit and was treated well by the nuns, everyone else who knew his situation?  Not really.  Think in my case a big reason why I was shunned, Missouri Synod Lutherans were and still are very political and tended to look at those who failed as unworthy.  I know lots of people do that but when you're a kid who sees it then as an adult does a bit of research, you see things differently.  

How are things in the Utah Bubble?  Despite the bad ward experience I had, it still paled in comparison to what I went through as a child.  From what I saw, you guys care about your own even the less active.

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Depends on the individual.  We have several in-actives, a few nonmembers, some exmembers, one family antagonistic in our small town Utah ward,   Most members stay friendly to all, invite to any neighborhood parties, etc.  if they have kids, other kids play with them out on the street, probably still invite them inside as well, though I don’t hear about that now my kids are grown.  But I have no doubt humans being what they are, there have been some members that keep their distance.  Haven’t heard about any nastiness, but my main sources of ‘gossip’ tend to be really nice people, so they might be restrained in their criticism...though we did have a significant problem for awhile with one YW being a snob and setting up a clique with the help of her mom.

Let me guess, the stories you hear about Mormons shunning transplants is kind of overblown?  I've heard it, thing is it's almost always from people who have no respect for those different from themselves.  Hint hint, if you have LDS neighbors they have their own customs, have some respect.  

That's really comforting to hear, There's like, one person left from WA I still talk to, he's LDS.  

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, poptart said:

the stories you hear about Mormons shunning transplants is kind of overblown

I don’t doubt it happens, but I doubt it is systemic except perhaps in pockets where you have domineering individuals setting a ward’s culture to the toxic side...which can happen.

A lot of the social scene in Utah is through the Church and in my experience if people keep turning down invitations, they stop getting asked by most.  And if you aren’t there, you may miss announcements and general invitations.  I think people are much more likely to be forgotten (which is unfortunate) rather than ignored or shunned.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Calm

[poptart]

33 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t doubt it happens, but I doubt it is systemic except perhaps in pockets where you have domineering individuals setting a ward’s culture to the toxic side...which can happen.

A lot of the social scene in Utah is through the Church and in my experience if people keep turning down invitations, they stop getting asked by most.  And if you aren’t there, you may miss announcements and general invitations.  I think people are much more likely to be forgotten (which is unfortunate) rather than ignored or shunned.

That's kind of what I assumed.  To be fair, if you live in areas that are dominated by certain religious cultures, it's the same thing.  What I was curious about was how those outside or not totally committed are treated.  I have my hands in a few different posts, especially after last year, really starting to see that while the LDS membership has their issues, in many ways they're pretty tame compared to other groups in Christiandom.  

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

Was talking to a friend, we were both reflecting on how we were treated when life happened to us as children and how our relationship with our childhood denominations changed.  How are those who aren't fully active and faithful in the LDS church treated?  How about those who investigate the church, chose not to join yet still love the LDS church?

I know of a case where the husband left the Church, but his family is still faithful, and he goes to social activities at Church.  Seems to be well treated.

[Calm]

46 minutes ago, poptart said:

That's kind of what I assumed.  To be fair, if you live in areas that are dominated by certain religious cultures, it's the same thing.  What I was curious about was how those outside or not totally committed are treated.  I have my hands in a few different posts, especially after last year, really starting to see that while the LDS membership has their issues, in many ways they're pretty tame compared to other groups in Christiandom.  

My opinion based on living in tenish cities in 4 states and one province and a half year in Moscow is that our culture generally avoids conflict.  If members get shafted by other members, they either try on their own or get advised to forgive to help the other repent and grow in most cases I have seen.  If someone won’t forgive because the hurt goes too deep and they aren’t ready and they want other members to choose sides, the couple of cases I have seen is members go with the closer friend, but stay cordial to the other.  But those cases the angry members weren’t rabid about it.  If there is conflict with nonmembers, members just keep their distance usually (we had a few anti Mormons up in Canada).
 

 I think for most the low conflict is a result of genuine kindness as well as actually seeing their ward as an extended family, but it has both positive (it helps defuse grudges) and negative sides to it (predators of all varieties can too easily find new victims).  I would love to see a way to increase the kindness, but up vigilance at least a notch or two.  Just know too many who could have been warned by bishops or other members who were aware of them getting involved with those with a questionable history, including my parents with tenants from hell (outer rings thank goodness, not real monsters, just scammers).

Edited March 1, 2021 by Calm

[Meadowchik]

My 19-year-old son is still active and lives with us. We moved here after we left the church and have had positive experiences, with the ward leadership here and our previous home, of them respecting our boundaries while still including him.

There's been a slip-up: missionaries coming around requesting to speak to our 9-year-old son. And an accepted visit by the young women to my daughter which was disappointing. But they were both mild occurrences.

The ward includes me in its FB group and the stake sends me the newsletters so I can be aware of what's going on and that's nice.

[poptart]

12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I know of a case where the husband left the Church, but his family is still faithful, and he goes to social activities at Church.  Seems to be well treated.

Wow, that's actually quite surprising.  Have a friend who married into Catholic family, the wedding was Lutheran.  Needless to say the family here still is irritated over it, they get along though.  He's worked abroad, it shocks him how petty denominations here stateside are, especially when pressed with dropping numbers.  They still want to play the blame the entitled millenials game while not looking at themselves.  He had the same experience with the Lutheran Church I did growing up, mostly petty politics.  What I hate is how the children have to suffer from all this, no one ever thinks about them.

BTW, just noticed the Frederick Douglass quote, so that's where the easier to raise strong children quote vs. broken men quote came from.  

12 hours ago, Calm said:

My opinion based on living in tenish cities in 4 states and one province and a half year in Moscow is that our culture generally avoids conflict.  If members get shafted by other members, they either try on their own or get advised to forgive to help the other repent and grow in most cases I have seen.  If someone won’t forgive because the hurt goes too deep and they aren’t ready and they want other members to choose sides, the couple of cases I have seen is members go with the closer friend, but stay cordial to the other.  But those cases the angry members weren’t rabid about it.  If there is conflict with nonmembers, members just keep their distance usually (we had a few anti Mormons up in Canada).
 

 I think for most the low conflict is a result of genuine kindness as well as actually seeing their ward as an extended family, but it has both positive (it helps defuse grudges) and negative sides to it (predators of all varieties can too easily find new victims).  I would love to see a way to increase the kindness, but up vigilance at least a notch or two.  Just know too many who could have been warned by bishops or other members who were aware of them getting involved with those with a questionable history, including my parents with tenants from hell (outer rings thank goodness, not real monsters, just scammers).

I can't help but think part of that is because unlike most of the other denominations here stateside it was the LDS church who was treated the worst, not even the Catholic Church had it as bad as your church did.  I forgot who it was who said if they could not convert the wise/learned they'd raise up saints amongst themselves, now look at you BYU turns out some of the most capable people in the USA.  I'm not sure who it was who made fun of the church for only getting bottom of the barrel converts, an LDS friend was quoting someone I forget who it was.  Makes me sick to hear things like that, the church is supposed to attract the least of these, not only the best and brightest.  

8 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

My 19-year-old son is still active and lives with us. We moved here after we left the church and have had positive experiences, with the ward leadership here and our previous home, of them respecting our boundaries while still including him.

There's been a slip-up: missionaries coming around requesting to speak to our 9-year-old son. And an accepted visit by the young women to my daughter which was disappointing. But they were both mild occurrences.

The ward includes me in its FB group and the stake sends me the newsletters so I can be aware of what's going on and that's nice.

Know someone who's first wife was LDS, marriage ended due to domestic violence.  Big surprise the child that came out of it was supported by the ward and now I think he's a bishop.  He has no contact with the father who went on to I think 2 more marriages, the children from those are all varying degrees of druggies.  Of course he blames the LDS church for all his problems and says it's his LDS son who's the problem....

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, poptart said:

Wow, that's actually quite surprising.

This is actually pretty common in the Church from what I have seen.  My sister-in-law is devout as is one child still at home, while her husband is now a nonbeliever.  Was even antagonistic for awhile.  Husband still came and comes to church a lot and most social stuff.  Had a couple in Calgary where Mom and kids came during winter, spent summers doing family stuff, Dad came to many church social events.  Both men were always talked about in positive terms from what I heard, very positive for my brother-in-law.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Calm

[Meadowchik]

34 minutes ago, poptart said:

Wow, that's actually quite surprising.  Have a friend who married into Catholic family, the wedding was Lutheran.  Needless to say the family here still is irritated over it, they get along though.  He's worked abroad, it shocks him how petty denominations here stateside are, especially when pressed with dropping numbers.  They still want to play the blame the entitled millenials game while not looking at themselves.  He had the same experience with the Lutheran Church I did growing up, mostly petty politics.  What I hate is how the children have to suffer from all this, no one ever thinks about them.

What surprises you about it?

We brought my son to church, even translated seminary for him during the lesson, etc..., while still having quite a critical opinion about the church. But of course I did not share that there. 

Lots of people think about their kids even when they have religious differences. When my husband and I decided to leave, we told our older children our decision, but assured them that they could still attend and we would support that. It turns out, we had the one son who still believed, our oldest daughter who had been secretly agnostic for three years, and another teen who had plans to leave home at 18 and never look back because of the church's position on homosexuality.  

If we had stayed, some of our children would have still suffered. And certainly my son hurts because we left. Belief differences are not easy to navigate, but it can be done. We have worked hard to meet our kids' needs and to maintain good relationships with them. The one daughter who planned to escape to a more accepting life will be 18 very soon, but she has done a complete 180 and feels totally different and feels to need to run away.

[poptart]

49 minutes ago, Calm said:

This is actually pretty common in the Church from what I have seen.  My sister-in-law is devout as is one child still at home, while her husband is now a nonbeliever.  Was even antagonistic for awhile.  Husband still came and comes to church a lot and most social stuff.  Had a couple in Calgary where Mom and kids came during winter, spent summers doing family stuff, Dad came to many church social events.  Both men were always talked about in positive terms from what I heard, very positive for my brother-in-law.

It really is amazing how when I look at other religious bodies here how they still think ill of the LDS church yet they have far more family issues, i've seen a lot of that with one side of my relations.  I've seen the opposite when it comes to religion, vicious gossip.  I do think a lot of that is cultural, the church I was baptised in when I was an infant has none of that, then again Hawaii in many ways is the exception to things here in the mainland.  Alaska too for that matter.  Will toss this out there, had a few friends who married Korean Americans who were church going, they had similar difficulties I did growing up that I did, they have none of that now.  

25 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

What surprises you about it?

We brought my son to church, even translated seminary for him during the lesson, etc..., while still having quite a critical opinion about the church. But of course I did not share that there. 

Lots of people think about their kids even when they have religious differences. When my husband and I decided to leave, we told our older children our decision, but assured them that they could still attend and we would support that. It turns out, we had the one son who still believed, our oldest daughter who had been secretly agnostic for three years, and another teen who had plans to leave home at 18 and never look back because of the church's position on homosexuality.  

If we had stayed, some of our children would have still suffered. And certainly my son hurts because we left. Belief differences are not easy to navigate, but it can be done. We have worked hard to meet our kids' needs and to maintain good relationships with them. The one daughter who planned to escape to a more accepting life will be 18 very soon, but she has done a complete 180 and feels totally different and feels to need to run away.

Unfortunately, that hasn't been the experience i've had with religion in general here in the mainland.  Also, had a pretty bad childhood.  Sad but it is what it is and from what i hear from cop friends it's becoming even more common nowadays.   That's why I said in my OP our relations with out childhood denominations ended, even now in a lot of churches if the members become poor, divorce etc. they shun the children, it happend to me and a bunch of my friends.  It's not talked about, in-fact it was somewhat hidden till the internet became a thing.  A lot of the very anti religious people here stateside came from backgrounds like I did, you can really see it now with the bitter denominational politics nowadays, last year was really bad.  The Episcopal and most Lutheran Denominations have maybe 20-30 years left at the rate they're going, the old African proverb of a shunned child burning down the village for warmth is actually quite appropriate when you see how things are with many religious bodies now.  That's also why I started this thread, wanted to hear the opinion of people here, i'd imagine the things i've seen and gone through would be quite foreign to many of you.  

Edited March 1, 2021 by poptart

[Meadowchik]

5 minutes ago, poptart said:

...Also, had a pretty bad childhood...

I'm so sorry to hear that.

7 minutes ago, poptart said:

It really is amazing how when I look at other religious bodies here how they still think ill of the LDS church yet they have far more family issues, i've seen a lot of that with one side of my relations. 

Unfortunately, that hasn't been the experience i've had with religion in general here in the mainland.  Also, had a pretty bad childhood.  Sad but it is what it is and from what i hear from cop friends it's becoming even more common nowadays.

It's definitely not the same for everyone. When my mom and grandma joined the LDS church, their Baptist family was extremely offended and concerned. But they were still very supportive. When my dad joined the church as a youth, it was a sort of rebellion against his father, a "jack Mormon" at the time, who did not take it so well. 

My dad comes from a long line of very aggressive men. I can say that my dad broke a very unhealthy generational cycle, and he attributes his ability to do that to his faith in the Gospel. 

To which "mainland" do you refer, if you don't mind saying?

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm so sorry to hear that.

It's definitely not the same for everyone. When my mom and grandma joined the LDS church, their Baptist family was extremely offended and concerned. But they were still very supportive. When my dad joined the church as a youth, it was a sort of rebellion against his father, a "jack Mormon" at the time, who did not take it so well. 

My dad comes from a long line of very aggressive men. I can say that my dad broke a very unhealthy generational cycle, and he attributes his ability to do that to his faith in the Gospel. 

To which "mainland" do you refer, if you don't mind saying?

It's all too common now, people like to point the finger of blame for the USA's societal problems at the gov't but, as always most never think of the least of these.  Big surprise now that we've had a few generations grow up like I did we're so opposed politically.  It's only going to get worse.  Entitlement has consequences...

Ohh boy Baptist, yeah the bad side is mostly that now, or whatever racist take on meme Christianity is popular now.  One drop rule applied to me, that and I was dunked Catholic later on so yep, a lot of them who really know who I am kinda despise me despite the fact their own children are a total mess.  Irony with the Baptist Church, while they ripped on everyone else and made fun of the Catholic Church's problem with pedos, this happened.

20 years, 700 victims: Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders resist reforms - Houston Chronicle

Moms a local from Hawaii, I was born there.  I look nothing like her but it's that side I'm close to.  She's not LDS at all but she got a good deal to go to BYUH.  It's different over there, last year really was something for me.  My cousins over there could not believe how people here were acting.  The racism and entitlement was disgusting.  I had to make some tough choices last year, ghosting a lot of people I knew and deleting my social media was among them.  I can't handle the toxic garbage people spew, that and with the doxing i'm not taking a chance.  

BTW, going to guess your dad had a lot of support?  That's what makes it work.  You can have faith in whatever you want, if you want to make family changes you need the community.  If you're single it's far easier to just wander off and do whatever, if you want to change things so that people down the line are different?  That's one thing that makes the LDS church shine.  It's amazing, it never used to be that way here, churches used to do so much more, now?  Not so much.  

[Meadowchik]

4 minutes ago, poptart said:

It's all too common now, people like to point the finger of blame for the USA's societal problems at the gov't but, as always most never think of the least of these.  Big surprise now that we've had a few generations grow up like I did we're so opposed politically.  It's only going to get worse.  Entitlement has consequences...

Ohh boy Baptist, yeah the bad side is mostly that now, or whatever racist take on meme Christianity is popular now.  One drop rule applied to me, that and I was dunked Catholic later on so yep, a lot of them who really know who I am kinda despise me despite the fact their own children are a total mess.  Irony with the Baptist Church, while they ripped on everyone else and made fun of the Catholic Church's problem with pedos, this happened.

20 years, 700 victims: Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders resist reforms - Houston Chronicle

Moms a local from Hawaii, I was born there.  I look nothing like her but it's that side I'm close to.  She's not LDS at all but she got a good deal to go to BYUH.  It's different over there, last year really was something for me.  My cousins over there could not believe how people here were acting.  The racism and entitlement was disgusting.  I had to make some tough choices last year, ghosting a lot of people I knew and deleting my social media was among them.  I can't handle the toxic garbage people spew, that and with the doxing i'm not taking a chance.  

BTW, going to guess your dad had a lot of support?  That's what makes it work.  You can have faith in whatever you want, if you want to make family changes you need the community.  If you're single it's far easier to just wander off and do whatever, if you want to change things so that people down the line are different?  That's one thing that makes the LDS church shine.  It's amazing, it never used to be that way here, churches used to do so much more, now?  Not so much.  

My dad embraced the church and gospel fully, along with my mom. They wanted a dozen kids, but had to stop most of the way there because it was destroying my mom's health. Both my parents benefitted from therapy, and that also helped them filter out a lot of the bad ideas that were reinforced in the church. It was not automatic, but after time they let go of things like the church lists we should be doing and they let go of the idea that church callings represented their worth. They let go of the idea that their kids had to stay in church for them to be successful parents. Instead they focused in on Christ, and being Christlike. About half of their children are out of the church but they work very hard to be equally supportive to all of us.

I guess you could say that their biggest support, aside from the structure of the church, was each other. Having that one person you care about who cares for you makes a world of difference!

As to my own family, I have children who had to leave the church to "shine." My husband and I had to leave. We have our own spheres of community and support consisting of LDS and non-LDS. 

[poptart]

27 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

My dad embraced the church and gospel fully, along with my mom. They wanted a dozen kids, but had to stop most of the way there because it was destroying my mom's health. Both my parents benefitted from therapy, and that also helped them filter out a lot of the bad ideas that were reinforced in the church. It was not automatic, but after time they let go of things like the church lists we should be doing and they let go of the idea that church callings represented their worth. They let go of the idea that their kids had to stay in church for them to be successful parents. Instead they focused in on Christ, and being Christlike. About half of their children are out of the church but they work very hard to be equally supportive to all of us.

I guess you could say that their biggest support, aside from the structure of the church, was each other. Having that one person you care about who cares for you makes a world of difference!

As to my own family, I have children who had to leave the church to "shine." My husband and I had to leave. We have our own spheres of community and support consisting of LDS and non-LDS. 

What really ruined things for me was having to fight family in court, it involved confrontation, court, a restraining order and waiting for my father to die from COPD.  Rotten people are what they are, thing is that side had the education to really harm people.  I literally had to beat him to the punch with a restraining order then move out of state so he wouldn't hound me forever.  It blows my mind how people deep down knows this happens in this country and do nothing.  Think the events of last year shook a lot of people, we're going to see a lot more rage from people especially as areas run out of funds for police plus the looming evictions and rise in domestic violence/crime.  

You know, whenever I've heard about LDS callings, i've thought to myself, most other churches do the same thing.  People give you a hard time over having a temple recommend, ever hear of closed communion?  It's much more common in the states.  For all the grief they give the Catholic Church, other denominations here are far, far more petty.  This was before my time, it's amazing the control some pastors had over their flock.

149184265-3503360216556715-1344135243161207081-n — ImgBB (ibb.co)

 

[Peacefully]

In one of my wards we had a very active member family and the husband’s parents attended church with the son and his family. The older couple happened to be members of the Community of Christ, but were very active in our ward. They helped with ward parties and anything else that didn’t require a formal calling. Everyone loved them as far as I could tell. 

[Tacenda]

Something sparked my memory and made me remember this. My dad wasn't very active, he had a back disability and would try his best to take my mom to Sacrament and would occasionally attend Elder's Quorum. When he did go, he said every time the teacher welcomed him as a visitor, he got a kick out of that. 

Currently my husband and I are inactive but watch Sacrament meeting on zoom, and occasionally I'll watch Sunday School zooms. We've been treated well, except I recently asked to be taken off the ministering lists for the both of us, because it became a drop off a gift sort of thing. I hate for people to have to spend their money like that. When sent an email about updated visits, I emailed back for us to be taken off the list because of the reasons stated. I also mentioned how I would have loved a text or call, but that never happened. I still would love that. But for some reason this doesn't happen. Does anyone else have this problem? Maybe some would love the drop off stuff! Not me, I actually like to get to know people without their needing to bring something. Just conversation sounds nice. 

But there are very good people in the church, and I acted the same way when I was all in probably, with drop offs and awkwardness around in-actives, sadly. 

 

[Ahab]

On 2/28/2021 at 5:51 PM, poptart said:

Was talking to a friend, we were both reflecting on how we were treated when life happened to us as children and how our relationship with our childhood denominations changed.  How are those who aren't fully active and faithful in the LDS church treated?  How about those who investigate the church, chose not to join yet still love the LDS church?

Usually, those who aren't fully active and faithful in the LDS church are treated better by those who are fully active and faithful in the LDS church than by those who aren't, and vice versa.  And usually those who investigate the church and choose not to join yet still love the LDS church are treated better by those who are fully active and faithful in the LDS church than by those who aren't, too.  There are exceptional cases on both sides, though, of course.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Usually, those who aren't fully active and faithful in the LDS church are treated better by those who are fully active and faithful in the LDS church than by those who aren't, and vice versa.  And usually those who investigate the church and choose not to join yet still love the LDS church are treated better by those who are fully active and faithful in the LDS church than by those who aren't, too.  There are exceptional cases on both sides, though, of course.

Could you expand on this, what do you mean by saying those who are fully active and faithful treat those who aren't fully active and faithful better than those who aren't fully active believing members? Or I would love examples or true life experiences to show this is true. Because it seems off kilter to me.

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I also mentioned how I would have loved a text or call, but that never happened. I still would love that. But for some reason this doesn't happen. Does anyone else have this problem?

Nope. I spent 6.5 hours Saturday night visiting one of my ministering families at their specific request. One hour of that was travel time, and the rest was spent talking, eating, laughing, playing cards, sharing a message, praying, and collecting a fast offering. He's a non-Latter-day Saint Christian who vocally disagreed with the message we shared about the universal brotherhood of all people, and she's an 'apostate' member (her term, not mine). No awkwardness at all. We're friends. I've provided plenty of evidence to them over many years that I love them as they are. I also want them back at church -- and they know that -- but that's a decision they get to make.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Nope. I spent 6.5 hours Saturday night visiting one of my ministering families. One hour of that was travel time, and the rest was spent talking, eating, laughing, playing cards, sharing a message, praying, and collecting a fast offering. He's a non-Latter-day Saint Christian who vocally disagreed with the message we shared about the universal brotherhood of all people, and she's an 'apostate' member (her term, not mine). No awkwardness at all. We're friends. I've provided plenty of evidence to them over many years that I love them as they are. I also want them back at church -- and they know that -- but that's a decision they get to make.

Well, you're one of a kind Hamba!

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well, you're one of a kind Hamba!

I partially reject that accusation!

But if you were on my ministering list, you'd damn well be getting in-person visits from me unless you told me to stop. (Caveat: the family I visited on Saturday used to be on our 'do-not-visit list' until I took the deacons around one Sunday to ask for a fast offering. They let us in cos 12-year-old boys are pretty disarming, and I've been visiting them regularly ever since.) And even then you'd still be getting phone calls, etc.

And I would listen patiently to all your whingeing, though at some point I'd call you to repentance. But I'd do it nicely and only after we were friends. I told the man I visited on Saturday that he was wrong about God's children only including professing Christians, but he wasn't offended by that. And if he was, he'll no doubt forgive me because we're friends. That's how this all works. And seriously, seeing everyone as family is just a much nicer way to exist in this world!