Jump to content

The different personalities found inside Mormonism


Recommended Posts

I've been reading 100s of older threads on here and I'm on page 60 now. I came across a thread dedicated to the "execution"/ excommunication of another fellow poster on here, someone I've been accused of being in disguise for some reason. I dont know why because he writes way better than I do. Anyways, In my 45 years of being a member I've never really thought to much about people being excommunicated. The last few days I've been mulling over in my head what I would do if I left the church. Do I have the personality type that would let me leave "the pool" without doing a cannonball off the diving board? I've really put alot of thought into this, I could be wrong, but it seems our church has a disproportionate number of members or exmembers that are willing to speak out against certain doctrines, is this correct in your opinion? 

      As far as raising young men to become righteous men, our church instils the warrior mentality. Check out the picture below. If you still dont believe, look up next time you go to the temple, that gold figure is a warrior captain famous for his actions in battle. It's ingrained in my personality, it's part of who I am. I could be totally wrong, I've never met any of these "famous" podcasters, but is the "warrior personality" what we're seeing. I'm not surprised so many people, men and women, are willing to speak out against the church. Mormons are raised to speak the truth, not lie, stand up for what we believe, to sound the trump when neccessary, atleast I was.  

      There's a good chance that "warrior" mentality doesn't just automatically turn off because you find yourself at odds with church teachings. Is this why we see so many members/exmembers speaking up? Is this warrior mentality/personality found in our church more than other denominations?

      

20210217_082931.jpg

Link to post

I think what you are describing isn't an issue of fighting, it's an issue of the conformity cycle.

At various times throughout history society has alternated between conformity and independence. Mormon society is no different.

Leaving the outliers aside (there are always "rebels"), non-conformist tendencies appear in waves in every community.

Just look at the environment Joseph Smith was in when the restoration began.  People right now hate to be pigeonholed, value uniqueness, and that is extending among Church members.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
42 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Is this warrior mentality/personality found in our church more than other denominations?    

Dunno.  But I have plenty of firsthand experience with it being plenty present in other denominations.

I don't think it's a bad thing either.  I'm not sure if the notion has been canceled yet, but masculine traits are still present in plenty of men and boys.  Stuff like arming for battle, preparing to overcome obstacles, striving and competing, and related systems of advancement - good stuff.  Helps umpteen kagillions of our boys get molded into men.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post

Something that has arisen that is totally shocking to me is when people have, I don't know the current name, Courts of Love, Membership review meetings etc. but these people broadcast it and tell everyone when and where and what the outcome was. Like, aren't you embarrassed? Is there no embarrassment anymore? I wouldn't want my sins and misdeed being broadcast all over the place. Telling everyone I was exed for these reasons would be  the opposite of humiliating, I can't understand that mindset. If it were me, I would tell no one it was happening and maybe share to some close friends the outcome, but I certainly wouldn't want total strangers being privy to the proceedings. Maybe for some that is the only way they get 15 minutes of fame and then a week later it's all but forgotten

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
41 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I still don't know what you mean by "warrior mentality/personality

 

20210217_121353.jpg

20210217_121312.jpg

20210217_121131.jpg

20210217_121101.jpg

Edited by AtlanticMike
Link to post
2 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

I've been reading 100s of older threads on here and I'm on page 60 now. I came across a thread dedicated to the "execution"/ excommunication of another fellow poster on here, someone I've been accused of being in disguise for some reason. I dont know why because he writes way better than I do. Anyways, In my 45 years of being a member I've never really thought to much about people being excommunicated. The last few days I've been mulling over in my head what I would do if I left the church. Do I have the personality type that would let me leave "the pool" without doing a cannonball off the diving board? I've really put alot of thought into this, I could be wrong, but it seems our church has a disproportionate number of members or exmembers that are willing to speak out against certain doctrines, is this correct in your opinion? 

      As far as raising young men to become righteous men, our church instils the warrior mentality. Check out the picture below. If you still dont believe, look up next time you go to the temple, that gold figure is a warrior captain famous for his actions in battle. It's ingrained in my personality, it's part of who I am. I could be totally wrong, I've never met any of these "famous" podcasters, but is the "warrior personality" what we're seeing. I'm not surprised so many people, men and women, are willing to speak out against the church. Mormons are raised to speak the truth, not lie, stand up for what we believe, to sound the trump when neccessary, atleast I was.  

      There's a good chance that "warrior" mentality doesn't just automatically turn off because you find yourself at odds with church teachings. Is this why we see so many members/exmembers speaking up? Is this warrior mentality/personality found in our church more than other denominations?

.......................

I wouldn't call it a "warrior mentality," Mike, because most Mormons are very restrained, polite folk.  I was a Marine, and I just don't find that many former Marines in the LDS Church.  Some of the Brethren were in WW II (Pres Monson was in combat in the Pacific in the U.S. Navy), and Pres Nelson was in the U.S. Army in Korea (he visited all the MASH units in Korea on an inspection tour), aside from which he is an avid skier.

However, it is true that ex-Mormons frequently find that, when they leave the faith, they can't leave it alone.  That may have to do with the basic and fundamental belief system in which so much is required.  If after all that commitment, one feels betrayed, perhaps that motivates a need for vengeance.

Calling upon LDS youth to speak in meetings, and to bear testimonies and to lead prayers, and to go on missions, is helpful in developing strong character -- unafraid to speak up when necessary, even if exposed to calumny (as Mitt Romney is suffering just now).  Being able to bear up under harsh criticism is a worthy adult personality characteristic, which many non-Mormons lack.  Perhaps that is what you have in mind as a true "warrior mentality."

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
6 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

.......................

It is true that there is a lot of heroic battle in the Book of Mormon, but here is an abstract from an article about a Book of Mormon people who refused to fight:

Quote

 

One of the most moving accounts in the Book of Mormon is of the people of Ammon, their covenant to bury and never use again their weapons of war, their faith to sacrifice themselves instead of fighting back against their Lamanite brethren, and their sacrifice to send their children to war to aid the Nephites. Some interpret the stance that the Ammonites took against war to be pacifist. Some indications point toward this conclusion: their burying their weapons, covenanting never to fight again, allowing themselves to be slaughtered twice, and being motivated in these actions out of love for their Lamanite kin. However, when the text is read more carefully, it can easily be seen that further actions would not necessarily have reflected a pacifist view toward war: not objecting to the Nephite war in their defense, providing Nephite soldiers with food and supplies, and sending their own sons into battle would surely indicate that their personal opposition to war stemmed from the covenants they made during repentance.  https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/jbms/vol18/iss1/13

 

How does this differ from the refusal to fight by Seventh Day Adventists, for example, who are willing to go into combat as medics?  The U.S. military recognizes such legitimate refusals to carry a rifle, and carefully assesses each claim by conscientious objectors.

Edited by Robert F. Smith
Link to post
22 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I wouldn't call it a "warrior mentality," Mike, because most Mormons are very restrained, polite folk.  I was a Marine, and I just don't find that many former Marines in the LDS Church.  Some of the Brethren were in WW II (Pres Monson was in combat in the Pacific in the U.S. Navy), and Pres Nelson was in the U.S. Army in Korea (he visited all the MASH units in Korea on an inspection tour), aside from which he is an avid skier.

However, it is true that ex-Mormons frequently find that, when they leave the faith, they can't leave it alone.  That may have to do with the basic and fundamental belief system in which so much is required.  If after all that commitment, one feels betrayed, perhaps that motivates a need for vengeance.

Calling upon LDS youth to speak in meetings, and to bear testimonies and to lead prayers, and to go on missions, is helpful in developing strong character -- unafraid to speak up when necessary, even if exposed to calumny (as Mitt Romney is suffering just now).  Being able to bear up under harsh criticism is a worthy adult personality characteristic, which many non-Mormons lack.  Perhaps that is what you have in mind as a true "warrior mentality."

I'm not saying militarily, look at this screen shot I've sent you, more in a integrity or having a sense of honor. Put on the armour of God, return with honor. I'm just learning about apologetics and the views of members who have left, its larger than what I originally thought. I think part of the problem with what you say about not being able to leave the church alone is, these people, mostly men, were taught from a young age that honor, courage, integrity and strength are important qualities. You dont lose those qualities when you leave the church, so when your on the outside looking in, I think these men are still in "warrior" mode. There are dozens of articles about becoming a warrior for God, not violently, righteously. 

 

20210217_122641.jpg

Edited by AtlanticMike
Link to post
27 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

 

20210217_121353.jpg

20210217_121312.jpg

20210217_121131.jpg

20210217_121101.jpg

I am familiar with all of these.  I think I understand what the Church means by referencing such metaphors.  I am less sure of what you mean.

On a related note, if we are to carry through the "warrior" metaphor to its logical conclusions, wouldn't it include the idea of submitting to authority?  Such is the core of military discipline, after all.  That being the case, a "warrior mentality" would decidedly not involve publicly speaking and/or acting against those in the proverbial "chain of command."

I do not think we should speak against the Lord's anointed.  In fact, we are under covenant to not do that.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
2 hours ago, pogi said:

I don’t think that disgruntled or disillusioned ex-members speaking out against their previous church is unique to Mormonism.

I guess I see it differently,  maybe I haven't done enough research yet. My point is, honor is big among mormon boys and men. We are brought up from birth to always be honorable in everything we do. Maybe these men are still fighting for their honor? It would make sense. I dont think you can give that up easily.  

Link to post
4 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:
Quote

I don’t think that disgruntled or disillusioned ex-members speaking out against their previous church is unique to Mormonism.

I guess I see it differently,  maybe I haven't done enough research yet. My point is, honor is big among mormon boys and men.

So is obedience.  So is humility.  So is forgiveness.  So is respect.

4 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

We are brought up from birth to always be honorable in everything we do.

There is nothing honorable in breaking covenants.

There is nothing honorable in speaking evil of the Lord's anointed.

There is nothing honorable in members under covenant publicly speaking or acting against the Church on matters that are not within our stewardship, and/or on matters about which reasonable minds can disagree.

4 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Maybe these men are still fighting for their honor?

I have no doubt that some opponents of the Church have what they feel are honorable motives.

In the main, however, I think raw emotion, spite, anger, a pound-of-flesh attitude, etc. are also common motives.  I see similar sentiments when people are getting a divorce.  Some just can't adopt a "What's past is past / live and let live" attitude, and must instead allocate fault for the break-up.  

4 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

It would make sense. I dont think you can give that up easily.  

Publicly disparaging the Church and its leaders is a means of expressing "honor?"  That seems kind of farfetched.

Thanks,

-Smac

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
3 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Is this warrior mentality/personality found in our church more than other denominations? 

No. I don't think so.  I think pretty much all people are willing to assert and fight for whatever they believe in.  Right or wrong.  Good or evil.

Link to post
23 minutes ago, Ahab said:

No. I don't think so.  I think pretty much all people are willing to assert and fight for whatever they believe in.  Right or wrong.  Good or evil.

I'm starting to think you're correct the more I think about it. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
3 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I'm starting to think you're correct the more I think about it. 

That usually happens the more people think about what I say.

  • Haha 2
Link to post
4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

That usually happens the more people think about what I say.

Yes. I served that to you on a silver platter 🤣🤣🤣. I knew you would hit it out of the park.👏 

Edited by AtlanticMike
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Pres Nelson was in the U.S. Army in Korea (he visited all the MASH units in Korea on an inspection tour),

Would be interesting to hear his thoughts on MASH 4077 😀

  • Haha 1
Link to post
2 hours ago, smac97 said:

Publicly disparaging the Church and its leaders is a means of expressing "honor?"  That seems kind of farfetched.

Here's what I can tell you about what people who have left the church feel once on the outside. Most people will just shrug it off and just keep living life, move on, if there's pain, they deal with it quietly. What I just described is my brother in law, he's a pretty quite guy. But, some choose to push back, and the problem with this personality type is, the more you try to make them irrelevant, the more they're going to show you how relevant they think they are. They dont stop. I have to deal with this as an employer of many people with varying personality types, some very erratic because they've been in and out of jail. Basically,  I've learned how to give people a place to land softly when they're pissed off. 

      My question since I've just started listening to apologetics and certain podcast that lean toward disparaging the church name. Is there any communication between the church and the "exmormon" community? Because in my experience, ignoring people who are trying desperately to say "ok, I'll show you just how relevant I am", can come back and blow up in your face.

Link to post
4 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

I'm not saying militarily, look at this screen shot I've sent you, more in a integrity or having a sense of honor. Put on the armour of God, return with honor. I'm just learning about apologetics and the views of members who have left, its larger than what I originally thought. I think part of the problem with what you say about not being able to leave the church alone is, these people, mostly men, were taught from a young age that honor, courage, integrity and strength are important qualities. You dont lose those qualities when you leave the church, so when your on the outside looking in, I think these men are still in "warrior" mode. There are dozens of articles about becoming a warrior for God, not violently, righteously. 

 

20210217_122641.jpg

If you google “Christian warrior”, you will find that the warrior mentality is very popular throughout Christianity.  I remember going to a non-denominational Christian conference on addiction recovery where being a “warrior” was the central theme of the conference.

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...