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The Pandemic's Lasting Impact on the Church and it's Members


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3 hours ago, Rain said:

Not hamba, but I don't like zoom.  I appreciate that it allows people to participate virtually and connect people, but how it all works drives me crazy. I have not done one Sunday School or Relief society either and a good part of that is because of my experience with it in sacrament meetings, funerals, family gatherings, primary singing time and other things. So my dislike for zoom was weighed against the advantages of whatever meeting and dislike of zoom always won out for RS and SS.

It's just so "dead." I would never choose it over live meetings. The only thing I found very effective about it was a baptism. It allowed so many more people to participate in a small private event where all the baptisms were done individually. I don't look forward to my younger grandkids having to go back to the one size fits all mass baptism routine. 

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3 minutes ago, juliann said:

It's just so "dead." I would never choose it over live meetings. The only thing I found very effective about it was a baptism. It allowed so many more people to participate in a small private event where all the baptisms were done individually. I don't look forward to my younger grandkids having to go back to the one size fits all mass baptism routine. 

As an eight year old ready to be baptized, it felt like I was herded from room to room with several other children. I guess I don't have the best memories though.

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On 2/9/2021 at 11:38 AM, ksfisher said:

Just to address this point, I think this varies with the demographic of the member.  In my ward members living in a household with other church members (families) have seemed to enjoy the experience.  However, members living alone are not.  They feel that their sense of isolation is increased and they're cut off from their ward family. 

I agree in general, but not everyone living alone feels isolated. A large number of church members don't enjoy the high level of contact required in normal times. I have always avoided the extra social stuff. 

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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

They've been helpful for me as an inactive. I watched a Sunday School lesson last Sunday and many Sacrament meetings before that.  

I wonder if this will be an on going thing for the future which would help the shut in's etc. 

I should think, as a result of our experience, the Church will be doing a lot more with technology going forward than was being done pre-pandemic. 

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12 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

That sounds awesome!  I wish I were in your ward! ;):D

Our bishop has shown a propensity to think outside of the box with regard to use of technology. This past year, our members were given the option of doing tithing settlement virtually with video calling. It meant I as an assistant clerk had to email a number of the donor statements, which we typically give to the donors when they come in for the appointment, but I was quite willing to do that. 

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6 hours ago, Rain said:

Not hamba, but I don't like zoom.  I appreciate that it allows people to participate virtually and connect people, but how it all works drives me crazy. I have not done one Sunday School or Relief society either and a good part of that is because of my experience with it in sacrament meetings, funerals, family gatherings, primary singing time and other things. So my dislike for zoom was weighed against the advantages of whatever meeting and dislike of zoom always won out for RS and SS.

 

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

I really don't like zoom, and my calling is kind of forcing me to lead a zoom meeting this week and I'm really not excited about it. I just want it to be over.

 

2 hours ago, juliann said:

It's just so "dead." I would never choose it over live meetings. The only thing I found very effective about it was a baptism. It allowed so many more people to participate in a small private event where all the baptisms were done individually. I don't look forward to my younger grandkids having to go back to the one size fits all mass baptism routine. 

I can only speak to my own experience, but our lessons in quorum meeting and Sunday School have hardly been dead. On the contrary, they have been very lively, the instructors have been well prepared with visuals and such, the meeting hosts have seen to it that the tech has been easy to navigate and it seems the class members have been as willing to participate as they have always been. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

 

I can only speak to my own experience, but our lessons in quorum meeting a Sunday School have hardly been dead. On the contrary, they have been very lively, the instructors have been well prepared with visuals and such, the meeting hosts have seen to it that the tech has been easy to navigate and it seems the class members have been as willing to participate as they have always been. 

I have been in meetings where that has occurred and meetings where it hasn't.  For me it is not a matter of being able to use the technology and how well the instructors were prepared etc.

I think I get what Juliann means by "dead" and I have to agree that this is a big part of it, but I couldn't put my finger on what makes it dead.  It is just missing something that is not included in those things you mention.

Well, part of it is the sound.  You only ever hear the sound coming from one person at a time. I know some people probably love that.  For me it falls flat when we are talking about community.  Even with sacrament meeting where most of the people are actually in the room the sound falls flat for the most part.   

 

 

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15 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You may recall from your reading of LDS history that the Saints went through some pretty tough times, with lots of apostates along the way.  Getting from Kirtland, Ohio, to SLC was fraught with many problems and failures along the way.  And, once there, pioneering was so hard that I am just glad that I wasn't there to participate in it.  Lifetimes were spent in hard scrabble existence, bare existence.  Perhaps we have it way too easy in modern times.

Yes that's true.  One of the little known tidbits of history is that during the pioneer years following the initial 1847 migration....those leaving the Salt Lake Valley were often equal to or greater than the number of new pioneers entering the valley.  There have always been the disillusioned when Zion didn't measure up to it's perceived expectations. 

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2 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Yes that's true.  One of the little known tidbits of history is that during the pioneer years following the initial 1847 migration....those leaving the Salt Lake Valley were often equal to or greater than the number of new pioneers entering the valley.  There have always been the disillusioned when Zion didn't measure up to it's perceived expectations. 

How many left because of disillusionment and how many were asked to settle in other places? 

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8 minutes ago, Rain said:

I have been in meetings where that has occurred and meetings where it hasn't.  For me it is not a matter of being able to use the technology and how well the instructors were prepared etc.

I think I get what Juliann means by "dead" and I have to agree that this is a big part of it, but I couldn't put my finger on what makes it dead.  It is just missing something that is not included in those things you mention.

Well, part of it is the sound.  You only ever hear the sound coming from one person at a time. I know some people probably love that.  For me it falls flat when we are talking about community.  Even with sacrament meeting where most of the people are actually in the room the sound falls flat for the most part.   

 

 

If I want or need to get the feeling I’m part of a class or group discussion, I need only swipe to the left several times and see images of others who are logged on for the Zoom call. 
 

And I find extraneous noise and or chit-chat distracting, whether it’s live or part of a virtual meeting as when people forget to mute their microphones and we hear the household noises coming through (doesn’t happen very often though; we’re all tech savvy enough to avoid it). 
 

But the spontaneity is there, if anything, more so than when it’s live, as it doesn’t work too well to raise one’s hand and and wait to be recognized (though the possibility is there for doing that). We typically just speak out when we have a comment. 

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If I want or need to get the feeling I’m part of a class or group discussion, I need only swipe to the left several times and see images of others who are logged on for the Zoom call. 
 

And I find extraneous noise and or chit-chat distracting, whether it’s live or part of a virtual meeting as when people forget to mute their microphones and we hear the household noises coming through (doesn’t happen very often though; we’re all tech savvy enough to avoid it). 
 

But the spontaneity is there, if anything, more so than when it’s live, as it doesn’t work too well to raise one’s hand and and wait to be recognized (though the possibility is there for doing that). We typically just speak out when we have a comment. 

I get that it works for you and I am so glad!  It doesn't work for me and it's ok that I feel differently about it.  

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On 2/10/2021 at 2:50 PM, Rain said:

How many left because of disillusionment and how many were asked to settle in other places? 


Good point.

I haven’t seen any population studies but considering that the area of settlement comprised the bulk of the western United States from the Rockies to the Pacific Coast, I dare say only a fraction of those arriving in the valley remained there to settle. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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9 minutes ago, Rain said:

I get that it works for you and I am so glad!  It doesn't work for me and it's ok that I feel differently about it.  

That goes without saying. No need to get testy. 

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Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

. No need to get testy. 

Weird you read her “I am so glad” as testy.  

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7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Weird you read her “I am so glad” as testy.  

I get that it didn’t come across to you as testy. I’m so glad. 
 

It did to me, and that’s OK. 

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Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

I get that it didn’t come across to you as testy. I’m so glad. 
 

It did to me, and that’s OK. 

You were seeing irritation that wasn't there.

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2 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Yes that's true.  One of the little known tidbits of history is that during the pioneer years following the initial 1847 migration....those leaving the Salt Lake Valley were often equal to or greater than the number of new pioneers entering the valley.  There have always been the disillusioned when Zion didn't measure up to it's perceived expectations. 

Yes, and then there were the handcarts.

Actually, the figures you cite may have more to do with SLC as a hub for those heading to the Pacific Coast than with disillusioned Mormons.  The '49ers came through on a gold rush . . .  Brigham even sent Saints out to California to get gold to help shore up Church finances.

In any case, I'd very much like to see the figures on converts coming from Europe to SLC, and exactly how many of those gave up and kept going to the coast.  My own ancestors stayed and pioneered.  One of them (a cousin) is now Governor of Utah (he attended my mother's funeral in Fairview, where he was Mayor).

Edited by Robert F. Smith
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On 2/9/2021 at 12:57 PM, Fair Dinkum said:

The Mission Program:

The Ward:

I think it is/was hard for people to understand their relationship w/ God is individual despite the existing Church leadership layers.

None of my brothers served missions though 2 of them made significant effort to do so, were willing like Abraham was, and will be blessed accordingly. 

Both were inactive for years afterward, with one accepting a call to the Philippines and being medically released from the MTC.

Ensuring my kids know that there are service missions in addition to proselytizing missions.

The decrease in missionaries if it happens will lead to more member-missionary efforts. I'm good w/ that.

I don't miss meeting w/ my ward which functions like a stake, disparate groups not really connected, goofy geographical boundaries across multiple high schools, lots of move ins/outs due to military. I'm old school and like people staying in the ward for a long time, like me, but here we are. 

Can't stand elder's quorum full of lawyers sharing their doubt-laced sophistry and calling it a lesson. I'm so impressed by their rhetoric, cant imagine being one of their clients.

I really enjoy having church at home; it puts more responsibility on me and my fam. and I don't have to avoid people who manipulate me into filling their callings.

Couldn't care less about tithing. I pay it, I'm blessed.

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36 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

I think it is/was hard for people to understand their relationship w/ God is individual despite the existing Church leadership layers.

None of my brothers served missions though 2 of them made significant effort to do so, were willing like Abraham was, and will be blessed accordingly. 

Both were inactive for years afterward, with one accepting a call to the Philippines and being medically released from the MTC.

Ensuring my kids know that there are service missions in addition to proselytizing missions.

The decrease in missionaries if it happens will lead to more member-missionary efforts. I'm good w/ that.

Our ward mission leader spoke a few weeks ago. With the missionaries not being able to leave apartments without appointments he figured he better start looking.  He started going tracting with anyone that would go with him.  They have picked up several investigators that way and have now called 8 ward missionaries.

36 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

I don't miss meeting w/ my ward which functions like a stake, disparate groups not really connected, goofy geographical boundaries across multiple high schools, lots of move ins/outs due to military. I'm old school and like people staying in the ward for a long time, like me, but here we are. 

Can't stand elder's quorum full of lawyers sharing their doubt-laced sophistry and calling it a lesson. I'm so impressed by their rhetoric, cant imagine being one of their clients.

I really enjoy having church at home; it puts more responsibility on me and my fam. and I don't have to avoid people who manipulate me into filling their callings.

 

36 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Couldn't care less about tithing. I pay it, I'm blessed.

Yes.  

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On 2/10/2021 at 3:20 PM, Rain said:

You were seeing irritation that wasn't there.

“It doesn’t work for me and it’s ok that I feel differently about it” seemed defensive to me. I wondered about the need to affirm what I had never disputed or to defend a position I had never attacked. 

But I’m glad to know there was no irritation. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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3 hours ago, Rain said:

Our ward mission leader spoke a few weeks ago. With the missionaries not being able to leave apartments without appointments he figured he better start looking.  He started going tracting with anyone that would go with him.  They have picked up several investigators that way and have now called 8 ward missionaries.

I love this! Will be sharing with our stake president.

As I've noted on this forum before, our mission reached a record high number of convert baptisms back in October 2020, most of them through online contacting. Modern Israel can be as stubborn as ancient Israel, it seems. Even in the midst of a pandemic, we love the flesh pot of familiarity. Based on what some of the apostles have been saying, I strongly suspect certain things are never going back to 'normal'.

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14 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I love this! Will be sharing with our stake president.

As I've noted on this forum before, our mission reached a record high number of convert baptisms back in October 2020, most of them through online contacting. Modern Israel can be as stubborn as ancient Israel, it seems. Even in the midst of a pandemic, we love the flesh pot of familiarity. Based on what some of the apostles have been saying, I strongly suspect certain things are never going back to 'normal'.

One thing I would keep in mind was that he wasn't asked to do this.  I would really struggle with doing it in my ward boundaries (2 by 1/4 miles) though I never did on my mission.  He is just a very humble, but friendly man and felt that was a way to go find.  

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4 minutes ago, Rain said:

One thing I would keep in mind was that he wasn't asked to do this.

Understood. But the Church's training materials have for years explained that missionary work belongs to wards and stakes, with the missionaries sent to assist us. The primary role of any WML is to provide meaningful teaching opportunities for the full-time missionaries, pandemic or no. When I was WML in my old ward, we set a goal of providing five teaching opportunities per week for each companionship. In the beginning (during the 'surge') we had three companionships and then this turned into four. We never actually reached our goal, but we got very close most weeks, with 15 to 18 lessons being common.

Because of COVID, we are down to only two companionships across our entire stake. We should be inundating them with meaningful teaching opportunities. I don't really care how people do that. I've had responsibility in the stake for missionary work for just over a year now, and we've been laser-focussed on helping ward leaders and WMLs perceive what they could be doing. This is one more example of what can be done.

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I would really struggle with doing it in my ward boundaries (2 by 1/4 miles) though I never did on my mission.

My current ward is about about 170km by 140km. We'll be fine! :D

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