Lehi and the first blessing

[telnetd]

Hello,
 
Would you help me understand these verses.

2 Nephi 1:28-29 says

"And now my son, Laman, and also Lemuel and Sam, and also my sons who are the 
sons of Ishmael, behold, if ye will hearken unto the voice of Nephi ye shall 
not perish. And if ye will hearken unto him I leave unto you a blessing, yea, 
even my first blessing".

"But if ye will not hearken unto him I take away my first blessing, yea, even 
my blessing, and it shall rest upon him".

What is this first blessing that would be upon Laman, Lemuel, Sam, and the
sons of Ishmael at the same time if they hearkened unto the voice of Nephi?  
Why is the bestowal of the first blessing upon Nephi contingent upon the 
disobedience of the other males?

The footnotes section links 'first' blessing to Genesis 49:3-4; D&C 68:17; 
Abraham 1:3.  When I look at those three passages, it appears to refer to 
priesthood.

Genesis 49:3-4 - "Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning 
of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power".
  
D&C 68:17 - "For the firstborn holds the right of the presidency over this 
priesthood, and the keys or authority of the same".
  
Abraham 1:3 - "It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from 
the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or 
before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right 
of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the 
fathers unto me".
  
If the first blessing is the right of the firstborn, how could Lehi's other sons 
(including Ishmael's sons) be considered for the first blessing (meaning more 
than one person would concurrently hold the right of the first presidency)?

Thank you,

Gale

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

........................

2 Nephi 1:28-29 says

............................

The footnotes section links 'first' blessing to Genesis 49:3-4; D&C 68:17; 
Abraham 1:3.  When I look at those three passages, it appears to refer to 
priesthood.

Genesis 49:3-4 - ....................
D&C 68:17 -................................ 
Abraham 1:3 - .................................
  
If the first blessing is the right of the firstborn, how could Lehi's other sons 
(including Ishmael's sons) be considered for the first blessing (meaning more 
than one person would concurrently hold the right of the first presidency)?......................

Gen 49, Deut 33 are merely the patriarchal blessing of twelve sons by Jacob, and all the patriarchs give a blessing to their sons.  Not only Lehi, but also Alma the Younger bless their sons.  Each such blessing is also a prophetic teaching occasion.  There is of course only one firstborn son in each family, and as you know the firstborn can easily lose his right.  In the case of Jacob-Israel, one of the eponymous tribes actually becomes the priestly tribe.  After that the firstborn of that special tribe (Levi) are the priests.  The D&C goes over the lineal right to the Aaronic Priesthood of those firstborn.

The Melchizedek Priesthood is different in that any man may hold it, if he is worthy.  In that case, only one man has the right to that Presidency at a time.  At present only Russell Nelson can fill that office.

[teddyaware]

11 hours ago, telnetd said:

Hello,
 
Would you help me understand these verses.

2 Nephi 1:28-29 says

"And now my son, Laman, and also Lemuel and Sam, and also my sons who are the 
sons of Ishmael, behold, if ye will hearken unto the voice of Nephi ye shall 
not perish. And if ye will hearken unto him I leave unto you a blessing, yea, 
even my first blessing".

"But if ye will not hearken unto him I take away my first blessing, yea, even 
my blessing, and it shall rest upon him".

What is this first blessing that would be upon Laman, Lemuel, Sam, and the
sons of Ishmael at the same time if they hearkened unto the voice of Nephi?  
Why is the bestowal of the first blessing upon Nephi contingent upon the 
disobedience of the other males?

The footnotes section links 'first' blessing to Genesis 49:3-4; D&C 68:17; 
Abraham 1:3.  When I look at those three passages, it appears to refer to 
priesthood.

Genesis 49:3-4 - "Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning 
of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power".
  
D&C 68:17 - "For the firstborn holds the right of the presidency over this 
priesthood, and the keys or authority of the same".
  
Abraham 1:3 - "It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from 
the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or 
before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right 
of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the 
fathers unto me".
  
If the first blessing is the right of the firstborn, how could Lehi's other sons 
(including Ishmael's sons) be considered for the first blessing (meaning more 
than one person would concurrently hold the right of the first presidency)?

Thank you,

Gale

It only means that if Laman and the other men who were older obeyed the younger Nephi, by turning away from their rebellion against God with full purpose of heart, each of them would be restored to their proper place within the patriarchal order of succession. This means a humbled and fully repentant Laman would have been restored to his rightful place of leadership within the family; and that upon the death of Laman a righteous Lemuel would preside, and so on through the usual order of succession.

It also means that the sons of Ishmael would have the  patriarchal order of succession restored within their family as well. But within each family only one righteous son would be able to serve as patriarch and head of each family at one time. But one thing it obviously doesn’t mean is that all those older than Nephi would somehow rule at the same time.

Finally, Ishmael’s sons were included in the blessing because, in the unlikely event that all the righteous male descendants of Lehi would have gone down to the grave, the group wouldn’t be left without a properly consecrated male heir to lead and guide the combined families of Lehi and Ishmael. Lehi was a very wise man who knew exactly what he was doing.

Edited February 5, 2021 by teddyaware

[CV75]

16 hours ago, telnetd said:

Hello,
 
Would you help me understand these verses.

2 Nephi 1:28-29 says

"And now my son, Laman, and also Lemuel and Sam, and also my sons who are the 
sons of Ishmael, behold, if ye will hearken unto the voice of Nephi ye shall 
not perish. And if ye will hearken unto him I leave unto you a blessing, yea, 
even my first blessing".

"But if ye will not hearken unto him I take away my first blessing, yea, even 
my blessing, and it shall rest upon him".

What is this first blessing that would be upon Laman, Lemuel, Sam, and the
sons of Ishmael at the same time if they hearkened unto the voice of Nephi?  
Why is the bestowal of the first blessing upon Nephi contingent upon the 
disobedience of the other males?

The footnotes section links 'first' blessing to Genesis 49:3-4; D&C 68:17; 
Abraham 1:3.  When I look at those three passages, it appears to refer to 
priesthood.

Genesis 49:3-4 - "Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning 
of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power".
  
D&C 68:17 - "For the firstborn holds the right of the presidency over this 
priesthood, and the keys or authority of the same".
  
Abraham 1:3 - "It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from 
the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or 
before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right 
of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the 
fathers unto me".
  
If the first blessing is the right of the firstborn, how could Lehi's other sons 
(including Ishmael's sons) be considered for the first blessing (meaning more 
than one person would concurrently hold the right of the first presidency)?

Thank you,

Gale

Here's one perspective: there are legal and spiritual aspects to the blessing: https://rsc.byu.edu/book-mormon-second-nephi-doctrinal-structure/lehis-last-will-testament-legal-approach

There are two blessings: "(1) Lehi’s general blessing of peace and prosperity and (2) his first blessing which would normally belong to his firstborn son." The general blessing (given first in the order of Lehi's statements) is held communally, and the first blessing (including "presidency" and a "duoble portion" -- presumably the brass plates, etc. that were purchased with the family's wealth prior to arriving in the new world where the land inheritance was unlimited) belongs to the firstborn but can be lost to Nephi through unrighteousness. Interestingly, Lehi made Laban's "first blessing" contingent upon his hearkening to the words of Nephi.

 

[telnetd]

On 2/5/2021 at 9:08 AM, CV75 said:

Interestingly, Lehi made Laban's "first blessing" contingent upon his hearkening to the words of Nephi.

Meaning that Nephi's first blessing was contingent upon the disobedience of others.

[CV75]

13 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Meaning that Nephi's first blessing was contingent upon the disobedience of others.

Not so much contingent (subject to chance and circumstances) as it was conditional (active terms and requirements), since he himself had to remain righteous in order to obtain any blessing at all. Whatever one wants to call it, though, I think it should have motivated Laman et.al. to strive for righteousness and hearken to him.

[JimJImJImmyJim]

This is really not a technical question or too much based on primogeniture laws. There are many instances in the scripture where the footnotes send you to references addressing similar circumstances or topics, but are not intended to limit the way in which you are supposed to interpret the scripture. This is one of them.

Nephi does not tell us about the first blessing. that was his choice in the small plates. I assume that those details were in the Book of Lehi and the large plates. If you want to guess what that blessing is, just take everything promised to Nephi and subtract stuff that was promised to him prior to the arrival in the new world. Also, you can make a pretty good guess at that blessing by looking at all the subsequent statements about the blessings the Lamanites will receive when they return to Christ.

As for Ismael's sons, the answer is simple. In the lost pages Book of Lehi we are told that Ishmael's son's married Lehi's daughters. So those sons were his sons-in-law. He thought of them as sones. Their children were his grandchildren. Even Zoram's children were his grandchildren. As the presiding priesthood leader and the grandfather of all the children there.

One more clue: Blessing always includes the meaning of "uniting" or "joining," such as in uniting you with a land of inheritance. Cursing is the opposite and always means "separation," such as in separating you from the presence of God.

[theplains]

What exactly is the first blessing that was considered to be placed on Laman, Lemuel,
Sam, and the others sons of Ishmael had they been obedient to Nephi?

[CV75]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

What exactly is the first blessing that was considered to be placed on Laman, Lemuel,
Sam, and the others sons of Ishmael had they been obedient to Nephi?

See 2 Nephi 1: 9 and 20 for the "first blessing" (in terms of order of communication and formal bestowal) is upon all Lehi's children/descendants (and others), which is to prosper in the land on conditions of righteousness. The "first blessing" (in terms of traditional or legal rights of primogeniture and leadership) is what you seem to referring to here (see verses 28, 29). "Inheritance" in verse 5 carries both these meanings: general for all concerned (Lehi included), and specifically designated rights upon his death.

[theplains]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:56 PM, CV75 said:

See 2 Nephi 1: 9 and 20 for the "first blessing" (in terms of order of communication and formal bestowal) is upon all Lehi's children/descendants (and others)

I would agree with your earlier statement on Feb 8 that the first blessing was conditional.

"But if ye [Laman, Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael] will not hearken unto him [Nephi]  I take
away my first blessing, yea, even my blessing, and it shall rest upon him".

If you can find a mention of this first blessing on Nephi in regards to Nephi's obedience instead
of the disobedience of the others, I would be interested in seeing that passage.

 

[CV75]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

I would agree with your earlier statement on Feb 8 that the first blessing was conditional.

"But if ye [Laman, Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael] will not hearken unto him [Nephi]  I take
away my first blessing, yea, even my blessing, and it shall rest upon him".

If you can find a mention of this first blessing on Nephi in regards to Nephi's obedience instead
of the disobedience of the others, I would be interested in seeing that passage.

 

It is referred to several times in such ways as, "the word of the Lord which he spake unto our fathers, saying that: Inasmuch as ye will keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land." Here's a good example from Alma 50 showing that it originated with Lehi (and there is no mention of this blessing in the Bible): "And thus we see how merciful and just are all the dealings of the Lord, to the fulfilling of all his words unto the children of men; yea, we can behold that his words are verified, even at this time, which he spake unto Lehi, saying: Blessed art thou and thy children; and they shall be blessed, inasmuch as they shall keep my commandments they shall prosper in the land. But remember, inasmuch as they will not keep my commandments they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord."

[dougtheavenger]

The lineage of Lehi. Q-L54?

About 3,000 years ago men with Y-chromosomes of haplogroup Q-L804, migrated to Scandanavia from Central Europe, then oddly became extinct in Central Europe as though they were just passing through.

Q-L804 is a direct descendant of Q-L54 as is Q-M3. Most American Indians have Q-M3 Y-chomozomes

Q-L54 exists in Native American populations and Old World populations.

American Indian Q-M3 and Scandanavian Q-L804 are siblings. 

Anyone read this in the news? Aside from obscure scientific journals, probably not which is more evidence that the mainstream news is controlled by the Devil himself.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-L804_(Y-DNA)

Edited February 20, 2021 by dougtheavenger
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[The Nehor]

The irony is that based on Deuteronomy 21 Laman and Lemuel had a pretty strong case for not getting ‘skipped’. It is even more ironic that this law was given to people who venerate Isaac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau.