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President Nelson Receives Covid Vaccine


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1 hour ago, pogi said:

I wouldn't assume that exposure is constantly ongoing in schools.  The vast majority of kids and teachers attending school still have not been exposed even once, let alone "constantly".  That fact precludes the assumption of constant exposure. 

Also, to explain (not trying to diss you) it is too simplistic to assume that ongoing exposure to any virus will build long-lasting immunity.  Each virus acts differently within our immune system, and can trigger different immune responses - and it can even be different from person to person.  In some cases, that is likely true that ongoing exposure helps build lasting immunity.  In other cases, not so much.    How "ongoing" does it need to be?  How many exposures in a 3 month period is required to maintain immunity?  These are questions that we just don't know.   What we do know is that some people are getting sick and testing positive again after only 3 months of an initial infection.    We also know that the chances of ongoing exposure within a 3 month period is very low statistically speaking.  

 

The fact that the virus behaves so differently in different people causes a lot of our problems I think.  I mean, if everyone who got it got really sick, then I think more people would take it seriously.  But everyone kind of assumes that they will be one who, if they get it will have a mild case or be asymptomatic, so they don't worry about it that much.

My best friend was a little like that.  She's in great health, no risk factors (she's not overweight, exercises all the time, etc.).  She even has O- blood, which studies have shown seems to decrease the likelihood of severe symptoms.  Her whole family ended up with covid and she was sicker than she's ever been.  Sick for over 21 days (sick sick, with a high fever, etc.), with one doctor visit and then one visit to the ER, where she was diagnosed with covid pneumonia, that took two different antibiotics to treat.  Her husband had the sniffles for a day, all of her kids were asymptomatic, but she's still recovering after getting sick at the end of November.  

And I've known people with risk factors that basically had no symptoms at all.  You just don't know how everything is going to play out.

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13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The fact that the virus behaves so differently in different people causes a lot of our problems I think.  I mean, if everyone who got it got really sick, then I think more people would take it seriously.  But everyone kind of assumes that they will be one who, if they get it will have a mild case or be asymptomatic, so they don't worry about it that much.

My best friend was a little like that.  She's in great health, no risk factors (she's not overweight, exercises all the time, etc.).  She even has O- blood, which studies have shown seems to decrease the likelihood of severe symptoms.  Her whole family ended up with covid and she was sicker than she's ever been.  Sick for over 21 days (sick sick, with a high fever, etc.), with one doctor visit and then one visit to the ER, where she was diagnosed with covid pneumonia, that took two different antibiotics to treat.  Her husband had the sniffles for a day, all of her kids were asymptomatic, but she's still recovering after getting sick at the end of November.  

And I've known people with risk factors that basically had no symptoms at all.  You just don't know how everything is going to play out.

I am sorry to hear about your friend.   I agree that is a problem of perception.  The fact is that the people are largely right.  The risk of severe morbidity if they are young and healthy is relatively low.  How we should be thinking however is in terms of the whole.  I do think most people recognize that this is the most deadly pandemic in 100 years however as we approach half a million deaths in the US.  I think people recognize that it is far more dangerous to our community and economy than measles, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, hep A, etc. etc. (which they all willingly get vaccinated for) even if they think it is not a huge risk to themselves individually.  People should choose to be vaccinated for Covid for the same reasons that they are vaccinated for measles or diptheria - because it is good for the community as a whole despite the relatively low personal risk.  That is how herd immunity is achieved.  It is a group effort.  We HAVE to get people to start thinking on a group and community level, as President Nelson has urged us to do as he incited a civic duty to be vaccinated for Covid.  It truly is a Civic duty which will return normalcy and save potentially millions of lives in the long-run.  He gets it!  What I hope for out nation is that people start thinking about this from the perspective of the whole.  However we certainly will all be benefited personally from defeating this virus, even if our own personal risk of morbidity is low.  

We have to start thinking of vaccination for Covid like a vote.  Getting vaccinated is a vote for life to return back to normal.  It is a vote to return to a filled football stadium, or a play, for dinner out without masks, for uninterrupted school and work.  It is a vote to save our economy and increase mobility in the community, increasing the flow of money.  The only way we will get back to normal is when the majority vote (probably around 80%) wins.  To not get vaccinated is to retard our recovery and return of life back to normal.  It is simply a numbers game and we have to think that way instead of in terms of individual risk of morbidity from Covid.  We vote with our shoulders :) 

 

 

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

I tell people taking vitamins and supplements that they have expensive urine. :) 

I'm with you. If you have a good, balanced diet, adequate sleep, exercise, and drink a lot of water (I started taking water seriously after my kidney stone), that's the best thing you can do for your health. And sunshine --- taking care not to get sunburn. 

I don't have any "studies" to back it up, but it makes sense to me that getting your vitamins through food (and sunlight) is more effective than swallowing pills. I think you eliminate most of it that way. 

Except for Vitamin D.

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COVID-19 is characterized by marked variability in clinical severity. Vitamin D had recently been reviewed as one of the factors that may affect the severity in COVID-19. The objective of current study is to analyze the vitamin D level in COVID-19 patients and its impact on the disease severity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This all translates into increased mortality in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients. As per the flexible approach in the current COVID-19 pandemic authors recommend mass administration of vitamin D supplements to population at risk for COVID-19.



https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77093-z

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37 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am sorry to hear about your friend.   I agree that is a problem of perception.  The fact is that the people are largely right.  The risk of severe morbidity if they are young and healthy is relatively low.  How we should be thinking however is in terms of the whole.  I do think most people recognize that this is the most deadly pandemic in 100 years however as we approach half a million deaths in the US.  I think people recognize that it is far more dangerous to our community and economy than measles, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, hep A, etc. etc. (which they all willingly get vaccinated for) even if they think it is not a huge risk to themselves individually.  People should choose to be vaccinated for Covid for the same reasons that they are vaccinated for measles or diptheria - because it is good for the community as a whole despite the relatively low personal risk.  That is how herd immunity is achieved.  It is a group effort.  We HAVE to get people to start thinking on a group and community level, as President Nelson has urged us to do as he incited a civic duty to be vaccinated for Covid.  It truly is a Civic duty which will return normalcy and save potentially millions of lives in the long-run.  He gets it!  What I hope for out nation is that people start thinking about this from the perspective of the whole.  However we certainly will all be benefited personally from defeating this virus, even if our own personal risk of morbidity is low.  

We have to start thinking of vaccination for Covid like a vote.  Getting vaccinated is a vote for life to return back to normal.  It is a vote to return to a filled football stadium, or a play, for dinner out without masks, for uninterrupted school and work.  It is a vote to save our economy and increase mobility in the community, increasing the flow of money.  The only way we will get back to normal is when the majority vote (probably around 80%) wins.  To not get vaccinated is to retard our recovery and return of life back to normal.  It is simply a numbers game and we have to think that way instead of in terms of individual risk of morbidity from Covid.  We vote with our shoulders :) 

 

 

I think most people accept the vaccines for those diseases because they fear their affects on their children. I don’t think too many do it for the good of the community, and most probably wouldn’t do it for themselves as an adult.  Most adults I know are not up to date on their vaccinations, for example, even though their kids are.  And most don’t get flu shots for themselves when/if they get them for their kids. 

Which may be why many pro-vaxers aren’t jumping at the vaccine right now.  They don’t see Covid as a risk for their children and aren’t worried about it for themselves.

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54 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think most people accept the vaccines for those diseases because they fear their affects on their children. I don’t think too many do it for the good of the community, and most probably wouldn’t do it for themselves as an adult.  Most adults I know are not up to date on their vaccinations, for example, even though their kids are.  And most don’t get flu shots for themselves when/if they get them for their kids. 

Which may be why many pro-vaxers aren’t jumping at the vaccine right now.  They don’t see Covid as a risk for their children and aren’t worried about it for themselves.

You have a point about (some) people not caring about the good of the community in being vaccinated.  Unfortunately, we have to appeal to selfish interests too.  I believe I have done so in viewing it as a vote for a return to normalcy.  Whether or not Covid poses a risk of severe morbidity to them personally, it has effected all of us on some level, and will continue to do so until herd immunity is achieved.  

I think you are mistaken as to why a few pro-vaxers aren't getting vaccinated for Covid...yet.  It is not because they don't view Covid as a risk, but it is because they have concerns about the vaccine not yet being entirely vetted by the FDA.  They have a point.  It is not yet FDA approved.  It has only received emergency authorization.  It is still being studied.   I can understand that reasoning, but I guarantee that most pro-vaxers who are hesitant about the new vaccine will be receiving it once it has been fully vetted and approved by the FDA. 

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47 minutes ago, pogi said:

You have a point about (some) people not caring about the good of the community in being vaccinated.  Unfortunately, we have to appeal to selfish interests too.  I believe I have done so in viewing it as a vote for a return to normalcy.  Whether or not Covid poses a risk of severe morbidity to them personally, it has effected all of us on some level, and will continue to do so until herd immunity is achieved.  

As long as people are being told they still have to social distance and wear masks after receiving their vaccination, I don't know that they will see that getting it will help us return to normal. 

Quote

I think you are mistaken as to why a few pro-vaxers aren't getting vaccinated for Covid...yet.  It is not because they don't view Covid as a risk, but it is because they have concerns about the vaccine not yet being entirely vetted by the FDA.  They have a point.  It is not yet FDA approved.  It has only received emergency authorization.  It is still being studied.   I can understand that reasoning, but I guarantee that most pro-vaxers who are hesitant about the new vaccine will be receiving it once it has been fully vetted and approved by the FDA. 

My Facebook feed includes a few very vocal friends (who have never been vocal about this kind of stuff before) who are openly campaigning that the unknown risks are more than the known benefits and no one should get the vaccine that isn't high risk.  They vaccinate their kids but see no benefit to getting this specific vaccine.  Hopefully you are right. 

But I do wonder what 'fully vetting' will mean to them.  These are the same people that still won't vaccinate their teens against the human papillomavirus even though that vaccine has been fully vetting for years, hasn't it? 

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57 minutes ago, bluebell said:

As long as people are being told they still have to social distance and wear masks after receiving their vaccination, I don't know that they will see that getting it will help us return to normal. 

Then they need to be educated about the long-game and compare outcomes of the community being under vaccinated vs achieving vaccination targets.  Which will get us to normalcy quicker?  

57 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My Facebook feed includes a few very vocal friends (who have never been vocal about this kind of stuff before) who are openly campaigning that the unknown risks are more than the known benefits and no one should get the vaccine that isn't high risk. 

Hmmm...the "unknown" risks are greater than the known benefits?  Something seem...off.   I would like to see how they calculated the "unknown" risks.   If the risks are unknown, how exactly are they determined to be greater?

We have administered enough doses now (millions world wide) to understand the immediate risks to life.  We know for a fact that the virus is more deadly than the vaccine by an insane margin across all age groups.  That is irrefutable.  Herd immunity through vaccination will reduce the death toll by millions.  There may be other not-so-serious side effects that we don't have a comprehensive picture of yet, but Covid absolutely has certain not-so-serious side effects that we do know about - sometimes long-term (long-haulers).  

Millions of doses have been administered world-wide, with Israel FAR out vaccinating everybody else.  What have we seen so far in terms of side-effects?  Very very little.  

If we were to administer the wild virus to those same people instead of the vaccine, do you think the risk would be more than or less than the vaccine?   While most are elderly, a fairly large chunk of those are young and relatively healthy people.  That is only looking at death.  If we were to compare severe morbidity and hospitalizations of teh wild virus to vaccination, it gets ridiculous.  Anyone who suggests that the unknown risks of the vaccine are greater than the known risks of the virus, hasn't really looked at this carefully.  

The "unknown risks" that we are waiting to get a full comprehensive picture on are the extremely rare side-effects.  If there are any undetected serious side-effects with the vaccine, they are going to be exceptionally rare if they have not yet been detected.  Most undetected side-effects from vaccines that are not detected until later are typically mild to moderate and are very rare.  

 

Edited by pogi
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6 minutes ago, pogi said:

Then they need to be educated about the long-game and compare outcomes of the community being under vaccinated vs achieving herd immunity.

I know we have small pockets of nuttiness here as well, but overwhelmingly the chatter in both formal and social media is about why it is taking so long to start vaccinating (we haven't been able to start yet), whether we we are choosing the right ones, whether we will have enough doses, and who should get them first. (I've been placed in the third tranche of recipients; my housemate, the first.) I suspect that by the end of the year, the ability to compare outcomes across nations will no longer be a theoretical exercise.

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2 hours ago, bluebell said:

she was diagnosed with covid pneumonia, that took two different antibiotics to treat. 

Hang on. Did the pneumonia make her weakened so she got covid or visa versa . The don't treat viruses with antibiotics do they ? Pogi , can you clarify? 

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On 1/19/2021 at 3:13 PM, pogi said:

"We have prayed for this literal godsend. 

I'd like to contrast Pres Nelson's sentiment to a statement made by one of our high councilmen. I quote verbatim here.

Quote

Masks are from Satan

 

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21 minutes ago, Chum said:

I quote verbatim here.

Tell me it isn't so!

I guess the prophet does Satan's bidding then and has led the church astray. 

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And church President Russell M. Nelson, a former renowned heart surgeon, has enthusiastically backed volunteer efforts by members to supply masks for health care professionals and others.

I give up.  The deception is visceral.  Political and partisan nonsense has become a religious cause which speaks louder than the Prophet and Area Presidencies.  Reason has gone to the wind. 

Edited by pogi
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23 minutes ago, Chum said:

I'd like to contrast Pres Nelson's sentiment to a statement made by one of our high councilmen. I quote verbatim here.

 

In searching for a quote from President Nelson supporting masks, I cam across this talk by Elder Cook.  I hesitate to share it as I think this talk has potential terrible and viral capacity.  But here it goes:

Quote

:rofl:

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3 hours ago, cinepro said:

Except for Vitamin D.

That's included with the "get sunshine" part. I'm not sure that vitamin D supplements, which are all the rage, (or Vitamain D3 fortified milk) are better than the Vitamin D our body makes upon exposure to UV rays. I'll bet at least some supplemental vitamin D is excreted, even though it's fat soluble. It has to be taken up in the GI tract. 

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2 hours ago, bluebell said:

My Facebook feed includes a few very vocal friends (who have never been vocal about this kind of stuff before) who are openly campaigning that the unknown risks are more than the known benefits and no one should get the vaccine that isn't high risk.  They vaccinate their kids but see no benefit to getting this specific vaccine.  Hopefully you are right. 

But I do wonder what 'fully vetting' will mean to them.  These are the same people that still won't vaccinate their teens against the human papillomavirus even though that vaccine has been fully vetting for years, hasn't it? 

This is us in spades (minus being vocal on Facebook. This is really our/my only vocalization here). We have our school/mission vaccinations, and I even had to renew my MMR to attend ASU for a year in 2006 (so, maybe that isn't up-to-date any more). We just don't want this particular vaccine. 

Interesting you brought up Gardisil (Gardasil?). They always are really mad at us when we decline that for our kids, and think we are such naive parents thinking that our morals/mores are going to protect them from it. When I was at ASU, they estimated that 75% of the 75,000 students already had HPV. That's another one we opt out of. 

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1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

Hang on. Did the pneumonia make her weakened so she got covid or visa versa . The don't treat viruses with antibiotics do they ? Pogi , can you clarify? 

I see Pogi already answered this.  Interestingly enough, the doctors told her that Covid pneumonia isn't that serious usually and as long as her O2 stats stayed above 90% when she was resting she didn't have to be admitted.

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23 minutes ago, rongo said:

That's included with the "get sunshine" part. I'm not sure that vitamin D supplements, which are all the rage, (or Vitamain D3 fortified milk) are better than the Vitamin D our body makes upon exposure to UV rays. I'll bet at least some supplemental vitamin D is excreted, even though it's fat soluble. It has to be taken up in the GI tract. 

In the winter in some climates, getting sunshine exposure is really hard.

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Just now, bluebell said:

In the winter in some climates, getting sunshine exposure is really hard.

True. Our son just got a glimpse of the sun this week, after months, he said. There are valleys in Norway where you never see it for half the year, because even when it rises it's close to the horizon. 

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2 hours ago, pogi said:

Then they need to be educated about the long-game and compare outcomes of the community being under vaccinated vs achieving vaccination targets.  Which will get us to normalcy quicker?  

Hmmm...the "unknown" risks are greater than the known benefits?  Something seem...off.   I would like to see how they calculated the "unknown" risks.   If the risks are unknown, how exactly are they determined to be greater?

We have administered enough doses now (millions world wide) to understand the immediate risks to life.  We know for a fact that the virus is more deadly than the vaccine by an insane margin across all age groups.  That is irrefutable.  Herd immunity through vaccination will reduce the death toll by millions.  There may be other not-so-serious side effects that we don't have a comprehensive picture of yet, but Covid absolutely has certain not-so-serious side effects that we do know about - sometimes long-term (long-haulers).  

Millions of doses have been administered world-wide, with Israel FAR out vaccinating everybody else.  What have we seen so far in terms of side-effects?  Very very little.  

If we were to administer the wild virus to those same people instead of the vaccine, do you think the risk would be more than or less than the vaccine?   While most are elderly, a fairly large chunk of those are young and relatively healthy people.  That is only looking at death.  If we were to compare severe morbidity and hospitalizations of teh wild virus to vaccination, it gets ridiculous.  Anyone who suggests that the unknown risks of the vaccine are greater than the known risks of the virus, hasn't really looked at this carefully.  

The "unknown risks" that we are waiting to get a full comprehensive picture on are the extremely rare side-effects.  If there are any undetected serious side-effects with the vaccine, they are going to be exceptionally rare if they have not yet been detected.  Most undetected side-effects from vaccines that are not detected until later are typically mild to moderate and are very rare.  

 

For the ones that I know, I don't think they are really calculating anything.  From my brief conversations with them, they seem to be going of personal feelings and what others in their world-view circle are saying.

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4 minutes ago, rongo said:

True. Our son just got a glimpse of the sun this week, after months, he said. There are valleys in Norway where you never see it for half the year, because even when it rises it's close to the horizon. 

That would do me in.

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5 hours ago, pogi said:

I am sorry to hear about your friend.   I agree that is a problem of perception.  The fact is that the people are largely right.  The risk of severe morbidity if they are young and healthy is relatively low.  How we should be thinking however is in terms of the whole.  I do think most people recognize that this is the most deadly pandemic in 100 years however as we approach half a million deaths in the US.  I think people recognize that it is far more dangerous to our community and economy than measles, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, hep A, etc. etc. (which they all willingly get vaccinated for) even if they think it is not a huge risk to themselves individually.  People should choose to be vaccinated for Covid for the same reasons that they are vaccinated for measles or diptheria - because it is good for the community as a whole despite the relatively low personal risk.  That is how herd immunity is achieved.  It is a group effort.  We HAVE to get people to start thinking on a group and community level, as President Nelson has urged us to do as he incited a civic duty to be vaccinated for Covid.  It truly is a Civic duty which will return normalcy and save potentially millions of lives in the long-run.  He gets it!  What I hope for out nation is that people start thinking about this from the perspective of the whole.  However we certainly will all be benefited personally from defeating this virus, even if our own personal risk of morbidity is low.  

We have to start thinking of vaccination for Covid like a vote.  Getting vaccinated is a vote for life to return back to normal.  It is a vote to return to a filled football stadium, or a play, for dinner out without masks, for uninterrupted school and work.  It is a vote to save our economy and increase mobility in the community, increasing the flow of money.  The only way we will get back to normal is when the majority vote (probably around 80%) wins.  To not get vaccinated is to retard our recovery and return of life back to normal.  It is simply a numbers game and we have to think that way instead of in terms of individual risk of morbidity from Covid.  We vote with our shoulders :) 

 

 

Thanks for the reminder of why it's so important to get the vaccine, that it's like the immunizations for measles and diphtheria, etc. And that the more people that are vaccinated the faster we'll eliminate the deadly virus!

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

we'll eliminate the deadly virus!

Eliminating it is unlikely, prevent it from continuing to massacring hundreds of thousands, millions yes. 

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32 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That would do me in.

Calgary was bad enough for me. Only real difficulty I had with it was not enough sun, too dark too soon in winter (I need more than a few hours of good light when waking up late morning) and too short a growing season.  I love winter, but green warm browns are greater than white and grays. 

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3 hours ago, rongo said:

This is us in spades (minus being vocal on Facebook. This is really our/my only vocalization here). We have our school/mission vaccinations, and I even had to renew my MMR to attend ASU for a year in 2006 (so, maybe that isn't up-to-date any more). We just don't want this particular vaccine. 

Interesting you brought up Gardisil (Gardasil?). They always are really mad at us when we decline that for our kids, and think we are such naive parents thinking that our morals/mores are going to protect them from it. When I was at ASU, they estimated that 75% of the 75,000 students already had HPV. That's another one we opt out of. 

I felt much the way you did about it. Then one health care provider mentioned that even if my children maintain their morals that does not mean their spouse will have done so or will continue to do so.  So after considering that some more we went ahead with the vax.

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