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President Nelson Receives Covid Vaccine


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25 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Our RS Pres husband just passed from Covid. My aunt just passed - probably complications of Covid. My manager’s mother just passed from Covid. These were just in the last two weeks. I also had a former neighbor who passed from Covid a few months ago. You can bet my husband and I jumped at the chance to get the vaccine even though the new technology made me anxious. I am so thankful for President Nelson’s example. 

Wow, I'm so sorry for your losses. I don't know anyone that has died from it. Are you in the Utah area by chance? I wonder if it's geographic. I know states like California, have many more deaths but that is because of the per capita. Or some states have more residents that aren't as healthy as a lot of people in Utah. 

I just can't understand anyone that thinks this isn't covid, or that it's just like the flu. Or that hospitals say it's covid when it's not. 

Edited by Tacenda
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I know on good authority that President Joseph Fielding Smith's son and daughter both died from covid, they were in their 90's but still.

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22 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Wow, I'm so sorry for your losses. I don't know anyone that has died from it. Are you in the Utah area by chance? I wonder if it's geographic. I know states like California, have many more deaths but that is because of the per capita. Or some states have more residents that aren't as healthy as a lot of people in Utah. 

I just can't understand anyone that thinks this isn't covid, or that it's just like the flu. Or that hospitals say it's covid when it's not. 

Thank you. Three were in Texas and one in California. I’ve given up trying to understand why people want to downplay it. It’s very real to me. 

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53 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Our RS Pres husband just passed from Covid. My aunt just passed - probably complications of Covid. My manager’s mother just passed from Covid. These were just in the last two weeks. I also had a former neighbor who passed from Covid a few months ago. You can bet my husband and I jumped at the chance to get the vaccine even though the new technology made me anxious. I am so thankful for President Nelson’s example. 

Both of my husband's boss's parents died from it.  (Arizona) His boss got it too and was pretty sick. Unfortunately, at the same time his father-in-law died from other causes. It has been rough for them.  

I have been so grateful my husband can work from home and my daughter only works in home with one client.  

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4 hours ago, pogi said:

Yes, you should be good to go for at least 3 months with natural immunity.  After that, your immunity may wane and it would be a good time to consider the vaccine.  I just had a second positive case today who was infected initially in August. 

 

I have been concerned about this.  My nephew got it on his mission during the summer.  He is traveling from Florida, through Texas to here and then to Utah and will be staying here one night.  Because of my risks I am only allowing him to stay because he has had it. 

4 hours ago, pogi said:

It is not safe to say that natural immunity lasts at least as long or is better than a vaccine.  There are several exceptions including HPV, Hib, and Pneumonia.  The natural immunity from Covid seems to be fairly weak.  The new type of vaccine used in Covid (mRNA) may very well give better long-term protection.  We simply don't know yet.

Unfortunately, the numbers and all of the Infectious disease and medical agencies back up much of the real concern about Covid.  Cities all over are being overwhelmed with hospitalizations and death as we speak.  Haven't seen that with varicella or diptheria before, yet we all vaccinate our kids for these.  The new CDC director says we will be at half a million deaths in the US by mid February.  Speaking of the 23 deaths from Pfizer, we have seen more that 23 deaths in a single day in Utah alone  (almost daily on occasion) from Covid, so when we compare risk to benefit of the vaccine, it is incomparable.   That is absolutely insane considering Covid wasn't even a thing less than 1 year ago.    I understand the lack of personal urgency given your symptoms, but when you consider why you vaccinate your kids for chickenpox or hep A, etc.  despite the lack of urgency, that might help you reconsider why we vaccinate.  Covid is FAR more deadly and concerning than either of these diseases, and causes far greater morbidity and hospitalizations than the vaccine and I would suggest the urgency is far greater on the community level.  The urgency on a community and even on a personal level, I would suggest, should be far greater than any other vaccine.    

To arouse a sense of personal urgency, while you dismiss your symptom of rash as not urgent, it is actually a very concerning symptom and a VERY good reason for you to consider vaccination in the future.  A rash from Covid is caused by abnormal blood clotting in your smaller blood vessels. You are lucky it didn't develop into a clot in a larger blood vessel (stroke!).   This simply can't be ruled out in the future.  It happens to young healthy people with Covid.  The fact that you have a history of clotting from Covid would personally give me all the urgency I needed to be vaccinated in the future.  

How many people do you know have had serious or even life threatening infections from Varicella, Hep A, diphtheria, polio, etc.?  How many of these diseases are destroying our economy and keeping people home from work due to infection or even exposure?  Yet we all get vaccinated because we understand the concept of herd immunity despite the relatively low risk these disease pose to us right now.  I would suggest that the urgency on the community level is far greater than anything else we are vaccinating for routinely right now.   If for no other reason get it to avoid being placed on quarantine or isolation after exposure to the virus in the future.   The vaccine will keep people working.  That is good motivation to be vaccinated.  It has potential to save our economy if we let it.  But that will only happen if we start thinking on a community level.

As President Nelson said:

More than anything, I am concerned about the more vulnerable populations being vaccinated, but this virus is FAR too unpredictable to suggest that young healthy people are safe.  Unfortunately, many of them are filling our hospitals.  They are not fake people, I speak with them everyday.  Simply because we don't see it first or second hand, doesn't mean it is not real.  You will see it eventually, that is a guarantee if vaccinations are not widely adopted by the community.  Keep in mind, it has only been around less than a year.

They are talking about making Covid vaccination a requirement for travel.  It will be similar to Yellow Fever where you have to have a stamped vaccination card to be allowed to travel.  Another good reason to get vaccinated, if that actually happens, which I suspect it will. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

 

I have been concerned about this.  My nephew got it on his mission during the summer.  He is traveling from Florida, through Texas to here and then to Utah and will be staying here one night.  Because of my risks I am only allowing him to stay because he has had it. 

 

Just make sure you are both wearing masks and distancing (as I’m sure you were already planning on), as he may no longer have full immunity.

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

Both of my husband's boss's parents died from it.  (Arizona) His boss got it too and was pretty sick. Unfortunately, at the same time his father-in-law died from other causes. It has been rough for them.  

I have been so grateful my husband can work from home and my daughter only works in home with one client.  

That is so sad:(

My husband and I are also grateful to work from home. We are relatively healthy, but a person really doesn’t know how it will affect them until they get it. It is a new virus, after all. We decided early on that we would be very careful and practice masking and social distancing in order to protect ourselves and others. We don’t plan to change a lot after we get both doses of the vaccine. We will continue to mask and social distance. We plan to go back to church, and we might go to a restaurant once in awhile, but I need to see the curve flatten a lot before returning to “normal”.

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21 hours ago, bluebell said:

I don't want to speak for anyone but from my perspective it's a few things that boil down to one thing--control. 

First, faith needs to be more important than science because that means they are in control of physical outcomes (they have control over their faith but none over science, which makes them feel out of control).

This was an interesting post to me. The balance between faith and common sense (using all scientific advances at our disposal) is interesting, and varies by person. I think for a lot of people, Orson Scott Card's entry in his "Mormon dictionary" under "blessing" is eerily accurate, even though it's tongue-in-cheek: "The ordinance of anointing by the laying on of hands to heal the sick; most commonly done to those not sick enough to need a doctor or so sick the doctors have given up hope." Some people give or seek blessings for every little thing, and others give or seek them in sort of Catholic "extreme unction" situations. Of course, there is a lot of middle ground between these extremes, but I think people's faith in priesthood blessings is less in our day than in generations past, in general. Some people yearn for and seek the faith of bygone eras and tip the scales in favor of faith over modern medicine. 

Our family has experienced New Testament-style healing miracles, including one of the most miraculous just a month ago. My wife was actually not admitted via the ER, and was sent home barely conscious, which was a first for us. In the last 12 years, she has been admitted three times --- she's never not been admitted, and she was unconscious when I wheeled her in. They have never been able to find a source of bleeding or blood loss, despite numerous colonoscopies and esophagogastroduodenoscopies. She has pernicious anemia (B12 deficiency) because of shortgut (missing parts of the ileum and colon), and her red blood cells are abnormally large to compensate (kind of an adaptation like sickle cell anemia, and more harmful than beneficial), is on high doses of blood thinners, etc. We were aghast, and didn't know what we were going to do. I gave her a blessing and she rapidly improved and is stronger today than she has been in years and has also stopped bleeding for the first time in months. However, despite our good "track record" with blessings, they are not our "health care plan," and it's hard to know exactly when you're doing "too many" or "not enough." 

21 hours ago, bluebell said:

Third, Their faith and everything that they have at their personal disposal (essential oils, energy healings, etc. ) means that they are in control of their health and the health of everyone they love.  Everything is curable and there are no medical conditions that can't be fixed (something science cannot promise but something that provides a sense of control again).

We all (unfortunately) know essential oil, energy healing, etc. people. I don't think there is a lot of Venn diagram overlap between anti-vaxxers and these people. Anti-vaxxers are worried and skeptical about potential effects of vaccines, or they lean heavily towards thinking that it's better for the immune system to have "live action," if possible. Essential oil/energy healing types, to me, treat it almost like witchcraft or magic, with a healthy dose of priestcraft to go along (there are people, men and women, who bless the oils and sell them. It's bizarre). 

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4 minutes ago, rongo said:

We all (unfortunately) know essential oil, energy healing, etc. people. I don't think there is a lot of Venn diagram overlap between anti-vaxxers and these people. Anti-vaxxers are worried and skeptical about potential effects of vaccines, or they lean heavily towards thinking that it's better for the immune system to have "live action," if possible. Essential oil/energy healing types, to me, treat it almost like witchcraft or magic, with a healthy dose of priestcraft to go along (there are people, men and women, who bless the oils and sell them. It's bizarre). 

We have some in our ward, which is actually my first real experience with people who are really into energy healing and essential oils and the like.  And the only other person that I know of personally who is anti vax is also heavily into alternative healing options.

So that's probably where my perception comes from.

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19 hours ago, pogi said:

Yes, you should be good to go for at least 3 months with natural immunity.  After that, your immunity may wane and it would be a good time to consider the vaccine. 

Question: I know I and my family had it around the week of Christmas. We only had loss of taste and smell (and hives, in my case), but the ER informed us of my wife's positive result from when I took her in. But, no fevers, no cough, no malaise, etc. 

I am convinced that I and the boys are constantly being exposed to it at school (really high community spread right now). My question is, if one recovers from it, and has antibodies that last an indeterminant time (it is unknown at this point how long the antibodies remain effective), but is constantly being exposed to it, shouldn't that significantly lengthen the time that effective antibodies will be present? The B lymphocytes are going to continue cranking out antibodies that match the antigens they encounter. 

I'm just wondering why the suggested window of effective antibodies is assumed to be so short, especially in high-density Covid areas. I would think that antibody presence would be and remain quite high well beyond three months. 

Thanks in advance!

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1 minute ago, bluebell said:

We have some in our ward, which is actually my first real experience with people who are really into energy healing and essential oils and the like.  And the only other person that I know of personally who is anti vax is also heavily into alternative healing options.

So that's probably where my perception comes from.

May you not encounter more. There is a high affinity with Julia Rowe, Chad & Lori, etc. among these types. And, they think putting peppermint or lavender oil on your wrist or wherever can cure absolutely anything. 

We've had some in every ward. They are everywhere. 

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10 minutes ago, rongo said:

May you not encounter more. There is a high affinity with Julia Rowe, Chad & Lori, etc. among these types. And, they think putting peppermint or lavender oil on your wrist or wherever can cure absolutely anything. 

We've had some in every ward. They are everywhere. 

As for anti-vaxxers, in the demographics in Texas are likely mirrored elsewhere.
"Texans who are college-educated, live in suburban or urban areas, have higher median incomes and are ethnically white are less likely to vaccinate their children, according to analysis by researchers at The University of Texas at Austin"
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200310141309.htm

I would not be surprised if there is more than a little bit of demographic correlation between the healing oil, energy healing, and such groups and anti-vaxxers.

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22 minutes ago, rongo said:

Question: I know I and my family had it around the week of Christmas. We only had loss of taste and smell (and hives, in my case), but the ER informed us of my wife's positive result from when I took her in. But, no fevers, no cough, no malaise, etc. 

I am convinced that I and the boys are constantly being exposed to it at school (really high community spread right now). My question is, if one recovers from it, and has antibodies that last an indeterminant time (it is unknown at this point how long the antibodies remain effective), but is constantly being exposed to it, shouldn't that significantly lengthen the time that effective antibodies will be present? The B lymphocytes are going to continue cranking out antibodies that match the antigens they encounter. 

I'm just wondering why the suggested window of effective antibodies is assumed to be so short, especially in high-density Covid areas. I would think that antibody presence would be and remain quite high well beyond three months. 

Thanks in advance!

It's early yet to tell about the longevity of the anti-bodies. Some initial reports are that it is order months at least.

Though, on a cheerier note, in the UK, almost a third of those who were hospitalized for covid were re-hospitalized within 5 months, with  one in eight passing from complications.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/18/1-in-8-recovered-covid-19-patients-die-within-5-months-study/
(Though I'm not sure to read that statistic if it is 1 in 8 of all post-hospitalized patients or 1 in 8 of the 1 in 3 re-hospitalized. The source article was paywalled.)


EDIT: Another cited this article in the main covid thread (which is where this post should belong).

Edited by Nofear
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22 hours ago, pogi said:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50090481/president-nelson-and-other-eligible-latter-day-saint-leaders-receive-covid-19-vaccine

I hope this endorsement of the vaccine by the prophet, calling it a "literal godsend" brought on by the prayers of the brethren, will help inspire our members (at least) to get vaccinated.

I am curious if this helps ease the minds of any who may have been hesitant about the vaccine previously.  Are there any here that would like to share where they stand?

I found this to be impactful as well:

  

Based on the comments I see about this on social media there are a lot of angry Mormons the think the prophet has a lot of hubris for promoting a vaccine and think he should mind his own business.  A funny thing that is  I guess the prophet is only a prophet when he says things that confirm many believing member views. Otherwise not so much.

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

Question: I know I and my family had it around the week of Christmas. We only had loss of taste and smell (and hives, in my case), but the ER informed us of my wife's positive result from when I took her in. But, no fevers, no cough, no malaise, etc. 

I am convinced that I and the boys are constantly being exposed to it at school (really high community spread right now). My question is, if one recovers from it, and has antibodies that last an indeterminant time (it is unknown at this point how long the antibodies remain effective), but is constantly being exposed to it, shouldn't that significantly lengthen the time that effective antibodies will be present? The B lymphocytes are going to continue cranking out antibodies that match the antigens they encounter. 

I'm just wondering why the suggested window of effective antibodies is assumed to be so short, especially in high-density Covid areas. I would think that antibody presence would be and remain quite high well beyond three months. 

Thanks in advance!

I wouldn't assume that exposure is constantly ongoing in schools.  The vast majority of kids and teachers attending school still have not been exposed even once, let alone "constantly".  That fact precludes the assumption of constant exposure. 

Also, to explain (not trying to diss you) it is too simplistic to assume that ongoing exposure to any virus will build long-lasting immunity.  Each virus acts differently within our immune system, and can trigger different immune responses - and it can even be different from person to person.  In some cases, that is likely true that ongoing exposure helps build lasting immunity.  In other cases, not so much.    How "ongoing" does it need to be?  How many exposures in a 3 month period is required to maintain immunity?  These are questions that we just don't know.   What we do know is that some people are getting sick and testing positive again after only 3 months of an initial infection.    We also know that the chances of ongoing exposure within a 3 month period is very low statistically speaking.  

 

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21 minutes ago, rongo said:

May you not encounter more. There is a high affinity with Julia Rowe, Chad & Lori, etc. among these types. And, they think putting peppermint or lavender oil on your wrist or wherever can cure absolutely anything. 

We've had some in every ward. They are everywhere. 

This area was a huge hotspot for Julie Rowe back in 2014-2015 when everyone thought they were days away from being called out in the mountains.  In a neighboring stake the stake presidency had to get involved it go so bad.

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I believe whether someone wants the vaccine or not can't be black and white. I for forever refused to take the flu shot, I even had to give up volunteering at a hospital. Back in the day that wearing a mask felt a little funny when the hospital said I would have to wear one if I didn't take the shot. 

I was a lot embarrassed at my behavior when I was set straight by my nurse friend recently while discussing if I wanted the vaccine for covid. I will probably get it, when it's ample in supply because there are so many out there that need it more than I. 

Some information I read recently said to try to get in good shape with vitamins/supplements or good nourishment and exercise because the vaccine will do much better that way. I wonder how true, but sounds like it would help I'm thinking. Maybe @pogican chime in.

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35 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I believe whether someone wants the vaccine or not can't be black and white.

Little in life is.  Even for me, this was not black and white.

35 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Some information I read recently said to try to get in good shape with vitamins/supplements or good nourishment and exercise because the vaccine will do much better that way. I wonder how true, but sounds like it would help I'm thinking. Maybe @pogican chime in.

I am personally not a big fan of vitamins and supplements.  Good nourishment from whole foods and exercise - yes, those are good in general for health and quality of life!   If it plays a role at all in the efficacy of a vaccine, it will be minor.   But it might help slightly with some of the negative side-effects from inflammation caused by the vaccine, but it won't prevent all side-effects and it is not likely to improve efficacy to any appreciable degree, I would suspect.  Especially if you live an unhealthy lifestyle day in and day out and try to trick the immune system by loading up with vitamins/supplements right before vaccination. 

Edited by pogi
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27 minutes ago, bluebell said:

This area was a huge hotspot for Julie Rowe back in 2014-2015 when everyone thought they were days away from being called out in the mountains.  In a neighboring stake the stake presidency had to get involved it go so bad.

During the year and a half between when I was bishop of two different wards, a member called me with some questions she had from talking with another stake member. I asked her if the other lady was quoting Roger K. Young, and she didn't know. Is there a picture of a blue sky with clouds on the cover, I asked, and she said, Yes! How did you know? Because it sounds like Roger K. Young.

The bishop who replaced me called and asked for my thoughts on a couple in his ward. They hadn't done anything while I was there, but were apparently hard-core tent city people and trying to gain followers. I told him to let the stake president know, and that they both needed to nip this in the bud. He asked me if I could give him information, if needed (he didn't know anything about the movements or the books), and I told him, Of course! 

It's all over the place in North America, even with the decline of Julia Rowe. While there are certainly anti-vaxxers who share those beliefs and beliefs in essential oils/energy healings, there is even more affinity between the oils/energy people and the tent city people. I do think the Chad & Lori show has helped somewhat, because it's shocked people, and they know some of the names through AVOW and Preparing a People. Hopefully that wakes some people up. 

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7 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am personally not a big fan of vitamins and supplements.  Good nourishment from whole foods and exercise - yes, those are good in general for health and quality of life! 

I tell people taking vitamins and supplements that they have expensive urine. :) 

I'm with you. If you have a good, balanced diet, adequate sleep, exercise, and drink a lot of water (I started taking water seriously after my kidney stone), that's the best thing you can do for your health. And sunshine --- taking care not to get sunburn. 

I don't have any "studies" to back it up, but it makes sense to me that getting your vitamins through food (and sunlight) is more effective than swallowing pills. I think you eliminate most of it that way. 

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

We all (unfortunately) know essential oil, energy healing, etc. people. I don't think there is a lot of Venn diagram overlap between anti-vaxxers and these people.

There is in my experience. 

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56 minutes ago, pogi said:

I wouldn't assume that exposure is constantly ongoing in schools.  The vast majority of kids and teachers attending school still have not been exposed even once, let alone "constantly".  That fact precludes the assumption of constant exposure. 

I'm in a high spread area in a high spread state, and we're having seating chart quarantine protocols for the first time (students sitting within 6 feet of positive-testing students are home for a week). Masks are also up to the individual, so I am confident that exposure is pretty constant. 

ETA: Eight cast members in my son's play are in quarantine until Monday, and I had six absences in a class for the first time. The whole year, I've never had so many perfect attendance periods, or only 1-2 kids absent. Many of the absences are precautionary, not because they are necessarily sick. 

Edited by rongo
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21 minutes ago, Calm said:

There is in my experience. 

I haven't seen it so much with the three (anti-vax, oils and energy), but I have seen it a lot with anti-vax and oils. 

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44 minutes ago, rongo said:

During the year and a half between when I was bishop of two different wards, a member called me with some questions she had from talking with another stake member. I asked her if the other lady was quoting Roger K. Young, and she didn't know. Is there a picture of a blue sky with clouds on the cover, I asked, and she said, Yes! How did you know? Because it sounds like Roger K. Young.

The bishop who replaced me called and asked for my thoughts on a couple in his ward. They hadn't done anything while I was there, but were apparently hard-core tent city people and trying to gain followers. I told him to let the stake president know, and that they both needed to nip this in the bud. He asked me if I could give him information, if needed (he didn't know anything about the movements or the books), and I told him, Of course! 

It's all over the place in North America, even with the decline of Julia Rowe. While there are certainly anti-vaxxers who share those beliefs and beliefs in essential oils/energy healings, there is even more affinity between the oils/energy people and the tent city people. I do think the Chad & Lori show has helped somewhat, because it's shocked people, and they know some of the names through AVOW and Preparing a People. Hopefully that wakes some people up. 

I came across a Robert K. Young book in my mission, left behind in a mission apartment.  It was the worst book I had ever read; there was nothing good or praiseworthy about it.  We threw it out and the spirit in the apartment immediately improved.

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