Jump to content

Man Dressed as Captain Moroni at Capitol: His Testimony and My Disclaimer UPDATED


Recommended Posts

A man dressed as Captain Moroni was among the protestors at the US Capitol on January 6th. He was interviewed on camera and bore his testimony:

Important: yesterday I commented in Scott Lloyd's thread that this protestor was also photographed inside the Capitol, which had been illegally breached. The photograph appears to be in The Crypt, which is directly underneath the Rotunda. However, since then I have been unable to find any other photos (or videos) of people in The Crypt during the breach. Therefore unless more documentation emerges I recommend caution regarding the photo of him inside.  

UPDATE: There are people who saved the data from the public posts on Parler before it got shut down, and this video shows the man dressed as Captain Moroni inside the Capitol, in the The Crypt level, is apparently from it. About 35 second mark.

 

 

Edited by Meadowchik
UPDATED w/documenting video
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

A man dressed as Captain Moroni was among the protestors at the US Capitol on January 6th. He was interviewed on camera and bore his testimony:

Important: yesterday I commented in Scott Lloyd's thread that this protestor was also photographed inside the Capitol, which had been illegally breached. The photograph appears to be in The Crypt, which is directly underneath the Rotunda. However, since then I have been unable to find any other photos (or videos) of people in The Crypt during the breach. Therefore unless more documentation emerges I recommend caution regarding the photo of him inside.  

I think he is dressed (and looks!)  more like the Roman Emperor, Vitellius,

image.png.47e4b00052bd2be9197e9c2d0e0ea981.png

Edited by CV75
  • Like 1
Link to post

The first presidency just put out a statement on the violence at the capital.   It would be great we could get everyone in the country to read it and then take a couple of steps back and chill.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2
Link to post

Well, atleast now we know why the Lamanites were able to kill all the Nephites, it's impossible to win a battle wearing flip flops. They never had a chance😁

20210117_075132.jpg

Edited by AtlanticMike
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
2 hours ago, CV75 said:

I am posting this here because another thread closed just as I was preparing this response:

I’ve mentioned this idea before: a particular belief does not drive the extremist reaction (e.g., not everyone who believes in a corrupt election system behaves violently -- or in this case, goofily). The belief is based on a predisposed or biased understanding and acceptance of evidence and rationale. This renders rationalization, justification and defense of the belief servants (not drivers) of that bias, which can become extreme and violent/goofy, depending on many factors (most notably in my opinion, inequity of various kinds, not just religious or moral differences – 3 Nephi 6: 12-16).

So, I think that crushing the belief alone will not solve the problem (D&C 134:2, 5), but changing the bias will. This is a social process that begins with tolerance of opposing beliefs and acceptance of bias as something everyone has in common (2 Nephi 26: 33, notably “he remembereth the heathen”).

Somebody needs to invite this guy to dinner!

I do think that misinformation, whatever the source, can lead to all manner of evil. At the same time, deeply-held beliefs and personal belief processes also combine with information when people act. None of these elements occur in a vacuum. I think it was you who posted a diagram on extremism from a source like Homeland Security, and it listed several factors in each stage. For example, income inequality is an important one. People who participate in a complex system that is supposed to be mutually beneficial will be more likely to turn on it when they view it as disadvantaging them but excessively advantaging others.

Just like there are multiple dimensions to extremism, there are multiple dimensions to diminishing it. 

There are things that precede extremism, like income inequality, and there are actions to help prevent it, like the minimum wage, unions, and other regulations.

There are many more people who are philosophically radicalized than actually commit crimes as a result. Any response to them needs to be holistic. Denmark seems to have had success with extremist youth who had apparently gone to Syria and become radicalized. The state sought to help these youth holistically and seem to have been effective so far.

Speaking on a more interpersonal level, it might be extremely inappropriate to ask some people to reach out and engage with radicalized people, specifically if the relationship is dysfunctional or abusive. Also in some cases a relationship can be so fragile or hostile that any efforts to speak to the radicalized party only serve to push them further into their extremism. And so, it may be more effective and safe when the extremist person is approached by someone they respect and trust. And that is where all of us come in, in my opinion. We likely all have people in our lives teetering on the edges or entrenched in extremism. Some of them might not respect or listen to me, for example, but others will. Same goes for you. So, hypothetically, I might be able to reach someone you cannot, and you might be able to reach someone I cannot. 

Back to the larger spheres, and specifically the church, I think there has been a steady increase in extremist language in LDS circles. The worldview of Mormonism has within it some biases and methods that if not carefully used, can make some more vulnerable to radicalization:

The American-centricness lends itself to American Nationalism

The race issues can be seen as justification for white supremacy

The authoritarian structure can make people more vulnerable to statements taken out of literal and historical context to adopt radical notions

The warlike archetype of spirituality can perpetuate the idea that being warlike is godly.

As I mentioned in another thread, the End of Days beliefs can encourage a mindset focusing less on learning on more on anticipated destruction.

The spiritual method of praying for direction and being guided by feelings might make people more vulnerable to interpreting natural human sensations as revelation.

etc...

Fortunately, I believe that each one of these vulnerabilities can be remedied within the Mormonism worldview. But it takes pro-action and good communication. My parents are quite liberal minded, for example, but I a grew up in a different world than they did, and I did not pick up on all they ways they managed the more extreme interpretations of the gospel or of our surrounding conservative culture in Texas. I don't think they were aware that I was in some ways more fundamentalist and literal than them. 

 

 

 

Link to post

I'd be interested to know this man's background, not doxing or anything but is he mentally stable or what is going on upstairs. 

Link to post
1 minute ago, Duncan said:

I'd be interested to know this man's background, not doxing or anything but is he mentally stable or what is going on upstairs. 

I agree. It is difficult to not feel bad for him, even if I do not agree with his words and actions that day.

  • Like 1
Link to post
1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

I do think that misinformation, whatever the source, can lead to all manner of evil.

Would you offer an example of misinformation that would motivate you to commit political (or other ideological) violence?

Link to post
1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

American Nationalism

white supremacy

radical notions

being warlike is godly.

focusing less on learning [snd] more on anticipated destruction.

interpreting natural human sensations as revelation

Each of these beliefs can be held by reasonable people without their resorting to violent expression. We may not agree with the belief, and so we use various means to convince them otherwise. Short-circuiting a violent expression does not require eradicating the belief, and we needn't wait for the threat of violence to convince others of the superiority of our beliefs.

Link to post
24 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Each of these beliefs can be held by reasonable people without their resorting to violent expression. We may not agree with the belief, and so we use various means to convince them otherwise. Short-circuiting a violent expression does not require eradicating the belief, and we needn't wait for the threat of violence to convince others of the superiority of our beliefs.

I agree, and in my opinion, tempering those beliefs can be done within LDS belief. To be abundantly clear, though, I especially disagree with any notions of white supremacy and American nationalism. 

As I have said previously and as I think we can both agree, none of these elements occur in a vacuum. Radicalization is a confluence of choices and conditions.

39 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Would you offer an example of misinformation that would motivate you to commit political (or other ideological) violence?

Well, to be frank, I have at past points in my life been in the thrall of many of the ideas of the radical movement of the day. I can empathize with the perspective of the protestors, although I do think that it usually requires some poor choices to go as far as some did:  if I believed that liberalism was Satanic, the embodiment of evil, if I believed that I could only trust one man who was telling me my rights were being violated, then I could envision the possibility of rebelling against so-called tyranny. Pretty much all my religious and political convictions were, at least at some point in my life, predicting such a possibility, where the Tree of Liberty would need to be watered, where the battle between good and evil would culminate in total conflict.

The element of misinformation is essential to the current events, perhaps in this case even moreso than economic issues. 

Have you heard about The Third Wave? In 1967, Ron Jones was a high school teacher in Palo Alto California who used an extended and extremely simulation to teach his World History students about the growth of fascism. It was so compelling and acclaimed that it is used to teach students in Germany about those social mechanics: 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
43 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I agree, and in my opinion, tempering those beliefs can be done within LDS belief. To be abundantly clear, though, I especially disagree with any notions of white supremacy and American nationalism. 

As I have said previously and as I think we can both agree, none of these elements occur in a vacuum. Radicalization is a confluence of choices and conditions.

Well, to be frank, I have at past points in my life been in the thrall of many of the ideas of the radical movement of the day. I can empathize with the perspective of the protestors, although I do think that it usually requires some poor choices to go as far as some did:  if I believed that liberalism was Satanic, the embodiment of evil, if I believed that I could only trust one man who was telling me my rights were being violated, then I could envision the possibility of rebelling against so-called tyranny. Pretty much all my religious and political convictions were, at least at some point in my life, predicting such a possibility, where the Tree of Liberty would need to be watered, where the battle between good and evil would culminate in total conflict.

The element of misinformation is essential to the current events, perhaps in this case even moreso than economic issues. 

Have you heard about The Third Wave? In 1967, Ron Jones was a high school teacher in Palo Alto California who used an extended and extremely simulation to teach his World History students about the growth of fascism. It was so compelling and acclaimed that it is used to teach students in Germany about those social mechanics: 

The Third Wave experiment relied upon first establishing a social environment that valued and rewarded discipline and community over other moral foundations before the fascist beliefs could be sold. Without that, he would not have been able to demonstrate how people can come to believe in an ideology that legitimizes oppression and related violence, and then take it the next step and act on those beliefs (you mentioned "poor choices" which recognizes an element of our personalities that operates independently of socialization; I might refer to that as conscience or grace).

This tells me that a social environment that engenders all moral foundations is less vulnerable to fascism, anarchism and other extremes. That’s my plug for a democratic republic! 😊

  • Like 2
Link to post

Dressing up as Captain Moroni? The same Captain Moroni who saw an election involving dissidents who wanted to overthrow the government and put a king in place. After the king-men lost the election they rallied and took up arms to overthrow the election and Moroni violently put them down as head of the military and compelled them to stop denying the liberty of the people. Irony is dead.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to post
1 hour ago, CV75 said:

The Third Wave experiment relied upon first establishing a social environment that valued and rewarded discipline and community over other moral foundations before the fascist beliefs could be sold. Without that, he would not have been able to demonstrate how people can come to believe in an ideology that legitimizes oppression and related violence, and then take it the next step and act on those beliefs (you mentioned "poor choices" which recognizes an element of our personalities that operates independently of socialization; I might refer to that as conscience or grace).

This tells me that a social environment that engenders all moral foundations is less vulnerable to fascism, anarchism and other extremes. That’s my plug for a democratic republic! 😊

I think that much of what the experiment showed was that the social environment was the fascism: they developed simultaneously. There is something seductive about conformity, and something biologically programmed in us to hum, sway, or chant in unison with other people. Fascism itself is a social structure.

Link to post
1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

I think that much of what the experiment showed was that the social environment was the fascism: they developed simultaneously. There is something seductive about conformity, and something biologically programmed in us to hum, sway, or chant in unison with other people. Fascism itself is a social structure.

Yes, the teacher took on the role of leader, created an environment and started a movement. But I see the discipline and community features as already part of the environment or culture, stemming from long-standing traditional and biological programming you refer to. Some cultures rely heavily on discipline and community than others (not necessarily for fascism); an American classroom especially. Taking this nationally, fascism takes advantage of that and then seeks to build a society where the reigning authority/dictator heavily defines, enforces and controls these features and suppresses others. That creates the characteristic fascist social structure, and why decent people "suddenly" become fascists, if not in converted heart and mind, in survival behavior. A democratic republic on the other hand leverages these same features differently ("civil virtue") to promote a free society (an ideal that arguably has not yet been fully achieved).

It is as scary to consider that we are all latent fascists as it is that we are white supremacists, and that we may well deny the indicators that we might be leaning that way already!

Edited by CV75
  • Upvote 2
Link to post

UPDATE: It looks like the photograph I posted was taken from a video: 

 

There are people who saved the data from the public posts on Parler before it got shut down, in this video that shows the man dressed as Captain Moroni inside the Capitol, in the The Crypt level, is apparently from it. 

Link to post
On 1/17/2021 at 5:52 AM, The Nehor said:

All I can say to that video is:

:lol:

I couldn't watch all of the interview. I believe he did another interview as well where some of his companions, who were also dressed up, are visible. I'm really torn about how to feel about this man's actions and the possible legal consequences. He seems harmless, though misguided.

  • Like 1
Link to post
40 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

man dressed as Captain Moroni inside the Capitol,

Captain Moroni the sightseer...must be after his retirement.

Link to post
3 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

I couldn't watch all of the interview. I believe he did another interview as well where some of his companions, who were also dressed up, are visible. I'm really torn about how to feel about this man's actions and the possible legal consequences. He seems harmless, though misguided.

I feel the same, I think he drank the kool-aid of misinformation out there. 

Link to post
5 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

I couldn't watch all of the interview. I believe he did another interview as well where some of his companions, who were also dressed up, are visible. I'm really torn about how to feel about this man's actions and the possible legal consequences. He seems harmless, though misguided.

That’s very common for people who do something really bad. They’re usually fairly normal, but a set of cultural and personal circumstances and beliefs often lead them down a terrible path. It’s why I think a lot of people often struggle to come to terms that this person they knew and liked did something horribly wrong....including at times the person themselves. 
 

with luv, 

bd

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
8 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

That’s very common for people who do something really bad. They’re usually fairly normal, but a set of cultural and personal circumstances and beliefs often lead them down a terrible path. It’s why I think a lot of people often struggle to come to terms that this person they knew and liked did something horribly wrong....including at times the person themselves. 
 

with luv, 

bd

I agree. Generally, it is strange to see the evils of events play out in almost banal ways. 

That said, for this particular man I wonder if he is mentally impaired in some way.

  • Like 1
Link to post
15 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I agree. Generally, it is strange to see the evils of events play out in almost banal ways. 

That said, for this particular man I wonder if he is mentally impaired in some way.

He could be....he seems to stumble a lot over his words a bit and seems a little unaware that he’s going too long with the BoM explanations.  He doesn’t seem to gage social cues well. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...