Man dressed as captain moroni at capitol on january 6th, updated: Arrested

[Chum]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

And in case anyone gets the idea that a war could bring democracy to the Vatican City, need I remind you that you would be going up against our Swiss Guard? Attack at your own peril.

Our Bundys and heavy war cattle can be called up on short notice

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

We witness those attempts often here in Seattle and Portland as armed mobs attack state and federal government buildings and vehicles and private businesses, disrupt traffic, threaten private citizens, and assault and injure local, state, and federal agents. This has been an ongoing assault for a long time, not some one-off stupid attempt that would be squashed immediately. This is outrageous, but it has often been allowed with the tacit approval and even the cooperation of elected officials. Where is the outrage and hand/wringing? There is plenty of blame to go around for the situation we find ourselves in. 

You witness these events in Seattle on an "ongoing" basis?  Hmmm...I thought the Nation's Capital building where the entirety of congress meets to certify the election was in the other Washington.  Were these people attempting to attack the Republic and remove the elected President through a violent overthrow of the US government?  Were these people attempting to demolish the judicial and congressional system of government and the vote of the American people?  For some reason, I thought they were seeking something else entirely.  Something about police brutality and wrongful killings.

I have long protested against any violence and lawlessness caused by some in BLM. What was allowed to happened in Portland and in Seattle was insane. But this cause and attempt at overthrowing the government is something else entirely. 

Sure violence and lawlessness happens all over in the name of different causes, but an attempted coup on the nations capital being fed the fuel by the outgoing President of the US with lies of a fallen democracy?  Come on!  This poop (trying ot be less offensive) doesn't happen every-day!  This is definitely an abnormal bowel movement of extraordinary and incomparable measure.

Edited January 21, 2021 by pogi

[Meadowchik]

29 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

We witness those attempts often here in Seattle and Portland as armed mobs attack state and federal government buildings and vehicles and private businesses, disrupt traffic, threaten private citizens, and assault and injure local, state, and federal agents. This has been an ongoing assault for a long time, not some one-off stupid attempt that would be squashed immediately. This is outrageous, but it has often been allowed with the tacit approval and even the cooperation of elected officials. Where is the outrage and hand/wringing? There is plenty of blame to go around for the situation we find ourselves in. 

Let all those who have broken the law be charged appropriately.

[pogi]

12 minutes ago, Chum said:

Our Bundys and heavy war cattle can be called up on short notice

Don't forget about our whistling and whittling brigades!

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/1983/04/nauvoo-whistling-and-whittling-brigade?lang=eng

[Chum]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

Let all those who have broken the law be charged appropriately.

Given how Americans tend to average three felonies a day, I am 100% behind this. The lifelong experience of a criminal record denying housing and jobs would serve to educate every one of us in powerful ways. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Chum
spacelessness

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

Given how Americans tend to average three felonies a day, I am 100% behind this. The lifelong experience of a criminal record denying housing and jobs would serve to educate every one of us in powerful ways. 

I think meadowchik was talking specifically about violence and property crimes during protests and not the “absurd and archaic” laws that infect our system and are rarely if ever prosecuted because nobody really knows about them.   I do agree though that our system is in need of an overhaul.  I don’t believe in extreme libertarianism though.  

Edited January 22, 2021 by pogi

[Rajah Manchou]

6 hours ago, longview said:

Regardless of what may have transpired, the fact that 25,000 national guardsmen were brought in is considered to be an appalling over-reaction.  It is chilling how we have been turned into thuggish repressive banana regime.  The sea of flags covering the mall is evocative of the Red Square propaganda military marches orchestrated in the old Soviet Union.

 

If you thought the government didn't do enough when rioters stormed the Embassy in Benghazi to murder our Ambassador, but think they've over-reacted after rioters stormed the Halls of Government to hang the Vice President of the United States, you might have a political bias that needs to be checked

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

 

If you thought the government didn't do enough when rioters stormed the Embassy in Benghazi to murder our Ambassador, but think they've over-reacted after rioters stormed the Halls of Government to hang the Vice President of the United States, you might have a political bias that needs to be checked

Both were embarrassing and tragic security failures. 

“State Department headquarters in Washington did refuse repeated requests from its ambassador for more security personnel. And it decided not to accept an offer from the Defense Department to extend the stay of one of its security units in Libya, reducing the level of security that was available.”

https://www.ajc.com/news/national-govt--politics/politifact-security-was-reduced-benghazi/RjfZfO52Dv7D1xISoOeZ1M/

“Even without intelligence from law enforcement, there had been ample warning about pro-Trump demonstrations in Washington. But Capitol Police did not bolster staffing and made no preparations for the possibility that the planned protests could escalate into massive, violent riots, according to several people briefed on the law enforcement response. Officials turned down help offered by the Pentagon three days before the riot.”

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-fbi-justice-capitol-attack-20210112-zmoduwb22jax5pjiyr4d3j6564-story.html

 

 

[longview]

1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

 

If you thought the government didn't do enough when rioters stormed the Embassy in Benghazi to murder our Ambassador, but think they've over-reacted after rioters stormed the Halls of Government to hang the Vice President of the United States, you might have a political bias that needs to be checked

I am shocked at your perspective.  The Benghazi assault was perpetrated by a large, well-organized, well-planned terrorist force timed to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11.  They were heavily armed with military grade weapons.  It was NOT a riot, it was NOT touched off by some obscure supposedly anti-moslem video as claimed by several in the Obama administration.  Several military assets nearby (in Italy and some on navy ships) tried very urgently to come to the aid of the embassy but were stunningly ordered to stay put.  It was later proven that Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and Ben Rhodes (and others) told deliberate lies about the whole incident.

By comparison, the breach at the Capitol had the feel of a frat party.  There was a good amount of revelry and boisterousness and campy actors.  The "false-flag" operators decided there was not sufficient hostility and violence so they went to phase-2 to find a target to take serious measures.  Unfortunately the Air Force veteran Ashli Babbitt was shot as she was gently trying to skip over a hall way window by a Congressional security agent,  who has NOT yet been identified (if sides were switched the dominant media would already have identified him).  This is in contrast with the Portland/Seattle massive insurrection with a great deal of looting, destruction of small businesses and wholesale burnings that went on for a year.  But the dominant media obscenely called those "peaceful protests".

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, pogi said:

You witness these events in Seattle on an "ongoing" basis?  Hmmm...I thought the Nation's Capital building where the entirety of congress meets to certify the election was in the other Washington.  Were these people attempting to attack the Republic and remove the elected President through a violent overthrow of the US government?  Were these people attempting to demolish the judicial and congressional system of government and the vote of the American people?  For some reason, I thought they were seeking something else entirely.  Something about police brutality and wrongful killings.

I have long protested against any violence and lawlessness caused by some in BLM. What was allowed to happened in Portland and in Seattle was insane. But this cause and attempt at overthrowing the government is something else entirely. 

Sure violence and lawlessness happens all over in the name of different causes, but an attempted coup on the nations capital being fed the fuel by the outgoing President of the US with lies of a fallen democracy?  Come on!  This poop (trying ot be less offensive) doesn't happen every-day!  This is definitely an abnormal bowel movement of extraordinary and incomparable measure.

Yes, we see this on an ongoing basis in Washington State and Oregon. You obviously are unfamiliar with the identities and the end designs of those “peaceful” protesters and destruction and interruptions we have been enduring for well over a year. They attack federal buildings and vehicles and officers as well as local assets. They attempted to burn occupied government buildings. They have caused millions of dollars in damage and injured and attempted to kill law enforcement officers and media people and destroyed numerous private properties. This is serious stuff.

 In cities that have been under one-party rule for decades and whose leaders encouraged or ignored the chaos. As late as yesterday and the day before.

I will not argue with you about it. 

I can see it in my minds eye. Donald Trump holed up in the Lincoln Bedroom with a George Washington rocker chair propped up against the doorknob, ranting about the sapping and impurification of our precious bodily fluids, refusing to leave the White House even when surrounded by 25,000 National Guardsmen trying to break down the door. 😜

Make no mistake. I don’t condone in any way what happened in DC, but the rank hypocrisy and handwringing of the media and others who ignored, praised, or abetted the insurrection and destruction in our cities stinks to high heaven. The atmosphere of this kind of stupidity has been well established by negligent and foolish leaders of one party and I am not surprised that it has now spread and escalated to this level. There are more than just two factions involved here. Hopefully, the ruling party will hold honest and open inquiries, but I doubt it.

 Given the events on Trump’s Inauguration Day, I cannot imagine what it would have been like if he had been elected to a second term. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Rajah Manchou]

1 hour ago, longview said:

I am shocked at your perspective.

And I'm shocked at yours. Bias will do that to us.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Rajah Manchou

[Rajah Manchou]

Quote

By comparison, the breach at the Capitol had the feel of a frat party.  

A frat party? Are we watching the same footage? Probably not. Our preferred media outlets have their biases too.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Rajah Manchou

[Bernard Gui]

On 1/20/2021 at 2:56 PM, Fair Dinkum said:

Some FB posters have claimed that this idiot was also seen at some of the Bundy standoffs.  What an embarrassment to the church

Why should the Church be embarrassed? What does he have to do with the Church? 

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Let all those who have broken the law be charged appropriately.

Of course. But let it be done equitably and without bias or political agenda. Many rioters here get off scott free on orders from sympathetic political leaders. Why do you think the Seattle police force is shrinking? 

[Bernard Gui]

34 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

A frat party? Are we watching the same footage? Probably not. Our preferred media outlets have their biases too.

As we have sadly seen in Seattle, whoever holds the camera and the editing button controls the material we see. When the Seattle mayor described the CHOP/CHAZ debacle on Capitol Hill as “the summer of love,” the media’s coverage made it look like a farmers market/street fair with entertainers, free food and water, hugs all around. The reality was that it was a planned and armed insurrection that drove the police out of their precinct building while the city surrendered to a bunch of hoodlums. The result was mayhem, anarchy, and eventually death. But it was portrayed as just “peaceful protest.”

Edited January 22, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Rajah Manchou]

46 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

As we have sadly seen in Seattle, whoever holds the camera and the editing button controls the material we see. When the Seattle mayor described the CHOP/CHAZ debacle on Capitol Hill as “the summer of love,” the media’s coverage made it look like a farmers market/street fair with entertainers, free food and water, hugs all around. The reality was that it was a planned and armed insurrection that drove the police out of their precinct building while the city surrendered to a bunch of hoodlums. The result was mayhem, anarchy, and eventually death. But it was portrayed as just “peaceful protest.”

The good thing is we, left or right, don't have to defend any of them.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Rajah Manchou

[Meadowchik]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

As we have sadly seen in Seattle, whoever holds the camera and the editing button controls the material we see. When the Seattle mayor described the CHOP/CHAZ debacle on Capitol Hill as “the summer of love,” the media’s coverage made it look like a farmers market/street fair with entertainers, free food and water, hugs all around. The reality was that it was a planned and armed insurrection that drove the police out of their precinct building while the city surrendered to a bunch of hoodlums. The result was mayhem, anarchy, and eventually death. But it was portrayed as just “peaceful protest.”

I googled "Seattle protests" and "Seattle seige." I get results for both, more for the latter, but the first still yields headlines which mention violence and chaos.

We do not have to pick one or the other, both the ongoing Seattle problems and the US Capitol events culminating on January 6th should be addressed. I disagree with the anarchists, and you're right to say that there are more than two factions involved in Seattle's unrest.

That said, there is no hypocrisy in reporting the US Capitol breach as more serious overall. Both cities were experiencing a crisis and breakdown of law and order, but in DC it was also extremism stoked by the sitting President that breached the Capitol to prevent the legal certification of our national election. The events of January 6th involved more people and exponentially more people holding national office were targeted and had to flee the proceedings for their safety.

One of my French LDS friends commented to me, asking why we wait until January 20th to inaugurate Biden, why not just avoid anymore extra time of risk of incitement, etc...? I responded and I think it applies to both the Seattle anarchy and the Capitol breach: "We cannot break the Constitution to save the Constitution."

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Meadowchik

[Nemesis]

Bump

 

[Meadowchik]

Apparently the FBI has taken it's time going through the evidence, and then making arrests. The man dressed as Captain Moroni at the Capitol on January 6th has been arrested and charged with misdemeanors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/16/captiol-riot-gladiator-mom-videos/

At first blush the charges seem appropriate since--going from the video evidence--there was nothing more serious than trespass in his intent or actions.

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

there was nothing more serious than trespass in his intent or actions.

I somehow doubt that his sole intention was to trespass, based on what we know of Captain Moroni.  I think he was there to liberate (in his mind) America from the “kingsmen”.  He was chanting 4 more years. I think that was his intention, despite the election.

I do feel pity for the man, he seems a little unusual and perhaps not all there.    He went thinking that he was a hero, but was deceived in a big lie (as evidenced by nearly 60 court rulings) and ended up being the villain instead.  His own church that he loves so much condemning his actions.  He has apologized though.

Edited July 18, 2021 by pogi

[Tacenda]

25 minutes ago, pogi said:

I somehow doubt that his sole intention was to trespass, based on what we know of Captain Moroni.  I think he was there to liberate (in his mind) America from the “kingsmen”.  He was chanting 4 more years. I think that was his intention, despite the election.

I do feel pity for the man, he seems a little unusual and perhaps not all there.    He went thinking that he was a hero, but was deceived in a big lie (as evidenced by nearly 60 court rulings) and ended up being the villain instead.  His own church that he loves so much condemning his actions.  He has apologized though.

I posted this in another thread in News but feel it's a good one to share here too. In it they mention how so many LDS believe in the conspiracy theorists like the QAnon group and it stems from statements mainly started by Ezra T. Benson years ago. That many still share on social media etc. Recently I saw a post by a former ward member on FB that said it was a big lie, the election. He shares these ideas constantly, I may have to share this Radiowest podcast with him. Since Benson, there have been LDS prophets that dispute these ideas, but I guess many LDS out there are holding on pretty tight. And these members still get up in church meetings and continue to spread these false theories and it spreads like a sickness.

It's a really good listen and explains a lot. I'll post here: https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/do-conspiracy-theories-thrive-religious-groups

Edited July 18, 2021 by Tacenda

[pogi]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I posted this in another thread in News but feel it's a good one to listen to. They mention how so many LDS believe in the conspiracy theorists like QAnon group and it stems from statements mainly started by Ezra T. Benson years ago. That many still share on social media etc. Recently I saw a post by a former ward member on FB that said it was a big lie, the election. He shares these ideas constantly, I may have to share this Radiowest podcast. Since Benson, there have been LDS leaders that dispute these ideas, but I guess many LDS out there are holding on pretty tight. And these members still get up in their church meetings and continue to spread these false theories and it spreads like a sickness can.

It's a really good listen and explains a lot. I'll post here: https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/do-conspiracy-theories-thrive-religious-groups

I listened to the broadcast yesterday.  I appreciated Dr Matt Harris’ insight, and Id love to read his book - The Watchman on the Tower - Ezra Taft Benson and the making of the Mormon right.   
It is not just Ezra Taft Benson that had influence, but it is built into our doctrine with Gadianton robbers and secret combinations.  

[Scott Lloyd]

Wondering why this thread was re-opened. I guess the “no-politics” rule is somewhat selectively enforced. 

[Tacenda]

41 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Wondering why this thread was re-opened. I guess the “no-politics” rule is somewhat selectively enforced. 

I wondered why too, it appears that Nemesis bumped it up. 

[Scott Lloyd]

54 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wondered why too, it appears that Nemesis bumped it up. 

Unlocked AND bumped it.