Are past sermons still in force from Prophets past, no matter our current Prophet?

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, AtlanticMike said:

There are very few truths. Most of the time, the truth is what you want it to be. To most people, their truth is a coping mechanism. 

I disagree completely.  That's contradictory to the gospel.  Relativism is a mortal weakness, not a natural law.

[AtlanticMike]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Fact determines what is true, regardless of someone's ability to observe it correctly.

Is it a fact that Mormonism is true?

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

There are very few truths. Most of the time, the truth is what you want it to be. To most people, their truth is a coping mechanism. 

That is a lie and I hope you don't really believe it.  Try to accept what I told you the truth is and then you will truly know everything as it really is or was or will be.

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Is it a fact that Mormonism is true?

Go into detail at least a little bit.  What are you referring to when you use the word Mormonism?

[AtlanticMike]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

Go into detail at least a little bit.  What are you referring to when you use the word Mormonism?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Is it true?

[Ahab]

Just now, AtlanticMike said:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Is it true?

It is what it is.  What do YOU mean when you ask whether or not it is true?

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Is it a fact that Mormonism is true?

Yes.

What you really mean is is Mormonism demonstrably true? Can we prove it?

That's a different issue.  Something is true whether we can prove it or not.

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Yes.

What you really mean is is Mormonism demonstrably true? Can we prove it?

That's a different issue.  Something is true whether we can prove it or not.

I don't see how that is any clarification, if it is.  What would it mean for Mormonism to be demonstrably true\ if it could be demonstrated?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

Whatever anyone says is simply an indication of what they think and how they feel about whatever they are talking about whenever they say something about it.  And whatever they say is either true or false.  There is no other option.

About anything? Everything is just an opinion, and nothing is truly from God? Is this what you believe? 

[AtlanticMike]

10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

It is what it is.  What do YOU mean when you ask whether or not it is true?

I was just responding to what you said an hour ago about "it's either true or false. There is no other option". Lifes not that simple. 

[AtlanticMike]

15 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Yes.

What you really mean is is Mormonism demonstrably true? Can we prove it?

That's a different issue.  Something is true whether we can prove it or not.

If Mormonism is true, then there's very few truths on earth. Your life is a test, that's why God veiled you from the truth. 

[Ahab]

Just now, AtlanticMike said:

I was just responding to what you said an hour ago about "it's either true or false. There is no other option". Lifes not that simple. 

You're not catching my train of thought so I'll try to demonstrate with some examples.

Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by the gift of God which God gave Joseph to translate those ancient records which a person named Moroni buried in the earth before he died about 1600 years ago. 

That statement is either true or false and there is no other option other than true or false.  No maybe. No in between.  It is either a true or false statement and it is true only if that really is something that happened.  Regardless of what anyone believes.

Here is another example of something else that is true or false now.  I currently reside in Oregon state and am occasionally grumpy.  That is either true or false and there is no other option.

Yes, life really is that simple.  Things are either true or they are not true and there is no other option.

[Ahab]

16 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

About anything? Everything is just an opinion, and nothing is truly from God? Is this what you believe? 

Whether or not knowledge is from God or was from God is kind of beside the point.  The main point is whether that knowledge is true or not.  So when anyone says anything your focus should be to find out whether or not what that person is saying is true.

Knowing God said something does give you an edge I suppose if you know God would say something only if it is or was or will be, but you first would need to know that otherwise you would only be taking God at his word as if anything God says is always truth.

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

If Mormonism is true, then there's very few truths on earth. Your life is a test, that's why God veiled you from the truth. 

Everything that is or was or will be is truth.  Truth is another word for reality either as it is or as it was or as it will be. 

If something doesn't really exist, even if some people might say or think it does, then it really is not true and is instead only fiction or a deception or a lie.

[AtlanticMike]

12 minutes ago, Ahab said:

You're not catching my train of thought so I'll try to demonstrate with some examples.

Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by the gift of God which God gave Joseph to translate those ancient records which a person named Moroni buried in the earth before he died about 1600 years ago. 

That statement is either true or false and there is no other option other than true or false.  No maybe. No in between.  It is either a true or false statement and it is true only if that really is something that happened.  Regardless of what anyone believes.

Here is another example of something else that is true or false now.  I currently reside in Oregon state and am occasionally grumpy.  That is either true or false and there is no other option.

Yes, life really is that simple.  Things are either true or they are not true and there is no other option.

Your looking at it from an earthly perspective, I'm looking at the truth from an eternal perspective, that's why we're disagreeing. You dont know the truth, there's a veil. Personally I dont think we know 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th of the truth. All you have to do is look around you. We dont actually know how any of this stuff works!! At all!! We think we do. But I guarantee you when we die and go to heaven there's a good chance we'll get there and say, ARE YOU XXITTIN ME! 🤣. Is that how that actually works?? 

[JLHPROF]

20 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

If Mormonism is true, then there's very few truths on earth. Your life is a test, that's why God veiled you from the truth. 

Sound like a different issue.

Something is either true or it isn't.  I happen to believe Mormonism is true.  Can't prove it but I believe it.
I'm either right or wrong.  Can't prove which.  

 

35 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I don't see how that is any clarification, if it is.  What would it mean for Mormonism to be demonstrably true\ if it could be demonstrated?

It would mean that the entire world could be shown that the doctrines and teachings of Mormonism were true and accurate and let them choose the consequences.  It would also greatly reduce the amount of faith needed.
I don't know, if I could show a video of Christ rising from the dead or Joseph meeting the Father and the Son in the grove would that prove Mormonism?  If I could get God himself to appear in power and tell the world that the doctrines of the restored gospel are both correct and required to be followed would that prove Mormonism?

It is true.  Can't prove it to anyone else.

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Your looking at it from an earthly perspective, I'm looking at the truth from an eternal perspective, that's why we're disagreeing. You dont know the truth, there's a veil. Personally I dont think we know 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th of the truth. All you have to do is look around you. We dont actually know how any of this stuff works!! At all!! We think we do. But I guarantee you when we die and go to heaven there's a good chance we'll get there and say, ARE YOU XXITTIN ME! 🤣. Is that how that actually works?? 

You assume the veil is never parted?
Revelation to man on earth has happened and continues to happen.
And if God says something I would think it is unquestionably true.

[AtlanticMike]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

You assume the veil is never parted?
Revelation to man on earth has happened and continues to happen.
And if God says something I would think it is unquestionably true.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying what we think is true here on earth might not be once we die. Take gravity for instance. We think we know how it works, but there's a good chance it could be a totally different explanation once we die and there's no veil. As a member of gods church, I keep my options open, men are stupid for the most part.

 

[JLHPROF]

3 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I don't disagree. I'm just saying what we think is true here on earth might not be once we die. Take gravity for instance. We think we know how it works, but there's a good chance it could be a totally different explanation once we die and there's no veil. As a member of gods church, I keep my options open, men are stupid for the most part.

 

On this, we agree.
But the idea of truth, that many eternal facts are knowable to a large extent, is fundamental to Mormonism. Even if there is an eternity of understanding not available in this life.

[Ahab]

12 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Your looking at it from an earthly perspective, I'm looking at the truth from an eternal perspective, that's why we're disagreeing. You dont know the truth, there's a veil. Personally I dont think we know 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th of the truth. All you have to do is look around you. We dont actually know how any of this stuff works!! At all!! We think we do. But I guarantee you when we die and go to heaven there's a good chance we'll get there and say, ARE YOU XXITTIN ME! 🤣. Is that how that actually works?? 

It seems to me like you're looking at reality with a delusional perspective.  I can understand how you could reasonably deduce that you don't understand how EVERYTHING is or was or will be but it seems to me, from my understanding of the words you are using, when you say we don't actually know how any of this stuff works, that you are rejecting what can be plainly seen and observed on at least a zillion things in reality.  Or maybe when you say we you only mean me as in yourself and you think that every other person on this planet is as delusional as you seem to be about reality.  I can accept that as your own perspective.  Try to just understand whatever you can understand while leaving all of the rest for later, I suppose is the best course of action.

[Ahab]

23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

It would mean that the entire world could be shown that the doctrines and teachings of Mormonism were true and accurate and let them choose the consequences. 

Truth is self-evident.  It took me a while to realize that but that is reality.  Each person only needs to be able to see and/or understand what really is or was or will be, without rejecting/denying it, to accept truth/reality.

23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

It would also greatly reduce the amount of faith needed.

Faith is only about being sure of something, and whatever anyone is sure about is what they have faith in.

23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I don't know, if I could show a video of Christ rising from the dead or Joseph meeting the Father and the Son in the grove would that prove Mormonism? 

If it was a real video of the actual event as it actually happened, then it would be real proof/evidence that it really happened regardless of whether or not anyone accepted it for what it was or is. 

Truth is truth regardless of whether or not anyone accepts the truth for what it is.

23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

If I could get God himself to appear in power and tell the world that the doctrines of the restored gospel are both correct and required to be followed would that prove Mormonism?

It is true.  Can't prove it to anyone else.

Your own testimony is proof/evidence as long as you are bearing a true testimony of true events.  Otherwise it would be the bearing of a false testimony, aka a lie.

[AtlanticMike]

8 minutes ago, Ahab said:

It seems to me like you're looking at reality with a delusional perspective.  I can understand how you could reasonably deduce that you don't understand how EVERYTHING is or was or will be but it seems to me, from my understanding of the words you are using, when you say we don't actually know how any of this stuff works, that you are rejecting what can be plainly seen and observed on at least a zillion things in reality.  Or maybe when you say we you only mean me as in yourself and you think that every other person on this planet is as delusional as you seem to be about reality.  I can accept that as your own perspective.  Try to just understand whatever you can understand while leaving all of the rest for later, I suppose is the best course of action.

Said perfectly from a man who sees the world as either black or white. We are all sinners, none of us are perfect, none of us know exactly what's going on down here on this rock, it's a circus. Again, if Mormonism is true, there's not many truths on this world, it was planned that way.

[Ahab]

Just now, AtlanticMike said:

Said perfectly from a man who sees the world as either black or white. We are all sinners, none of us are perfect, none of us know exactly what's going on down here on this rock, it's a circus. Again, if Mormonism is true, there's not many truths on this world, it was planned that way.

Not black or white.  True or false.  Actually a combination of truth and lies which we are tasked to sort through in reality.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with what our beloved prophet Joseph Smith said about Mormonism?  While looking for his quote "Mormonism is truth" I found this which you might want to consider reading...

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-22?lang=eng

[AtlanticMike]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

Not black or white.  True or false.  Actually a combination of truth and lies which we are tasked to sort through in reality.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with what our beloved prophet Joseph Smith said about Mormonism?  While looking for his quote "Mormonism is truth" I found this which you might want to consider reading...

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-22?lang=eng

Awsome!! Now your starting to get it. Like I've said this the past 2 hours, there's very few truths. Exactly what Joseph said.

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Awsome!! Now your starting to get it. Like I've said this the past 2 hours, there's very few truths. Exactly what Joseph said.

Heh, uh, no.  Where are you getting the idea that there are very few truths?  Very few truths about what?  Which things?  Where?  In what sense do you mean if not nonsense?