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Another Religion-based "Affinity Fraud" Case in Utah


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3 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Different in California.  I had one fellow I was suing for fraud bring parts of his high council with him.  He was a high councilor.  They would heckle me in the hall and call my stake president. I got a big judgment.

We had a bishop whose wife babysat another family's handicapped child. He was mentally retarded, and he climbed up their chain link fence and fell and hit his head while he was in her care. I don't think it was a major fall --- pretty typical for little kids. The family sued, accusing her of adding brain damage to the child through her negligence (where could you draw that line, really, with his pre-existing condition?), and the bishop's wages were garnished to pay the judgment. The family was still in the ward, and acted as if nothing had happened. Talk about awkward! 

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1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:
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I have sued many hundreds of people in Utah, many of whom are presumably members of the Church.  I have never once had a problem with one of them trying to use "ecclesiastical methods" to get back at me.

Different in California.  I had one fellow I was suing for fraud bring parts of his high council with him.  He was a high councilor.  They would heckle me in the hall and call my stake president. I got a big judgment.

I am sorry to hear that.  That was very inappropriate behavior on their part.

Thanks,

-Smac

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1 hour ago, rongo said:
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I am happy to hire a member of the Church who is competent, and who is not in my ward or stake, and who does not trade on his/her membership as a selling point.

Here's the opposite side of that coin. Years ago, before I had gotten my sea legs as a teacher, I didn't renew my contract and wanted to do something else. A member of my ward hired me as his office manager because  I was his bishop. I wouldn't have wanted my bishop into the guts of my company, but it was a good job while it lasted (he decided to close up the business and do something else after a few months). I did payroll (including myself); took and ordered inventory; advertised, interviewed, and hired/fired people; and anything else he needed me to do. I had unlimited access to his business account (which was substantial --- it was an eye-opener to me about a world foreign to me) and could have embezzled everything if I had wanted to. Of course, I would have been on the run or in prison after that, but the sole reason he approached me was he wanted someone he was willing to trust with access to everything, and I was that guy. He would have me move money around between different accounts --- for example, to hire people from New York and move them and get them situated in Florida on short notice. That was a lot of money to move! He needed to go from two secretaries to one, and agonized over having to let her go, so he asked me to do it for him. It wasn't bad, because she was a student, and he offered two month's severance (she took it just fine. More than fine!).

He even had me sign checks for him with his signature. That is a good object lesson for investiture of authority --- if it were questioned, it wasn't a matter of me signing his name; it was him signing his name when I did it, because he recognized it and authorized it as such. I big part of my job was making it so he didn't have to come in. Again, not something I would have done, but that's how he wanted it. 

That's sort of the opposite of affinity fraud --- affinity hiring. It can work out, but the counsel from you two is probably much wiser, in general and overall. 

Affinity hiring is fine.  Expected, even.  Nothing wrong with hiring people you know and trust.  Still a good idea to have financial oversight and accountability measures, tho.

Thanks,

-Smac

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

We had a bishop whose wife babysat another family's handicapped child. He was mentally retarded, and he climbed up their chain link fence and fell and hit his head while he was in her care. I don't think it was a major fall --- pretty typical for little kids. The family sued, accusing her of adding brain damage to the child through her negligence (where could you draw that line, really, with his pre-existing condition?), and the bishop's wages were garnished to pay the judgment. The family was still in the ward, and acted as if nothing had happened. Talk about awkward! 

Was it the family or their insurance company that sued?  I've heard of cases where it's been a person's insurance company that is actually doing the suing, even when the insured person doesn't want to. 

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1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I am sorry to hear that.  That was very inappropriate behavior on their part.

Thanks,

-Smac

They were convinced I was Satan's tool!!!  It was a hoot.  Even though I got the guy to admit on the stand that he forged loan advance requests for a huge construction project and got his employees (young women in his ward!!!) to prepare fake notarial certs!!!   The tales I could tell about other litigation involving church members.  All in stride.  

All in all I find members of the church to be honorable in their business dealings in all but one area -- construction contracts.

Edited by Bob Crockett
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36 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Was it the family or their insurance company that sued?  I've heard of cases where it's been a person's insurance company that is actually doing the suing, even when the insured person doesn't want to. 

Don't you have a say in whether it goes to trial, though? Can't a person refuse to sue?

I don't know whether it was the family or the insurance company. Come to think of it, I can't remember how we knew, but it was common knowledge. Not something that should have been. This was when we were first married. 

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5 minutes ago, rongo said:

Don't you have a say in whether it goes to trial, though? Can't a person refuse to sue?

Insurance might not pay full amount I would think. 

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9 hours ago, rongo said:

The family was still in the ward, and acted as if nothing had happened. Talk about awkward! 

An elderly woman who used to be in my old ward was visiting her daughter and son-in-law in another jurisdiction and fell during the visit. She sued them for medical expenses and now honestly can't grasp why it's alienated them ... :blink:

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12 hours ago, rongo said:

Don't you have a say in whether it goes to trial, though? Can't a person refuse to sue?

I don't know whether it was the family or the insurance company. Come to think of it, I can't remember how we knew, but it was common knowledge. Not something that should have been. This was when we were first married. 

Presumably there were expenses and insurance covered them up front so maybe you could tell them to stop if they chose to give all the money back to the insurance company. If not then at that point the insured is probably not a party in the lawsuit. I am not a lawyer though.

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10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

An elderly woman who used to be in my old ward was visiting her daughter and son-in-law in another jurisdiction and fell during the visit. She sued them for medical expenses and now honestly can't grasp why it's alienated them ... :blink:

It's stupid the way it works because sometimes that's the only way to get insurance to cover the expenses, and if you really sincerely can't cover them on your own, and need those services for your health and recovery, then your hands are tied.

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20 hours ago, rongo said:

We had a bishop whose wife babysat another family's handicapped child. He was mentally retarded, and he climbed up their chain link fence and fell and hit his head while he was in her care. I don't think it was a major fall --- pretty typical for little kids. The family sued, accusing her of adding brain damage to the child through her negligence (where could you draw that line, really, with his pre-existing condition?), and the bishop's wages were garnished to pay the judgment. The family was still in the ward, and acted as if nothing had happened. Talk about awkward! 

Sad.

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35 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Here's a real doozy to add to the list, I can't believe this keeps happening. Sad for the families involved. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/8/22220939/fraud-church-of-jesus-christ-mormon-revelation-investors-securities-exchange-federal-prison-sec-bilk

I believe this is the same one as the opening post. 

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