Apocalyptic Predictions About the Environment

[Bob Crockett]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

All I have to say is Stop Littering my oceans.

East coast cities haul barges of garbage out to the deep sea to dump garbage, including New York City.  What alternative would you propose?  

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

By "it" do you mean the environment? 

By "it" I meant "environmentalism."

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

If so it is where we live and what surrounds us, so it plays a very big role in where we live and what we see around us.

Sure.  But how much of "environmentalism" is alarmist?  Excessive?  Based on ulterior motives (money, governmental power/policy/influence)?  How much credence should we give to environmental alarmism?

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

I think our leaders have weighed in enough to help us know some things we can do to make where we live a nice and nicer place for us to be.   In the end though we're all going to get a new earth so all pollution will eventually disappear.

The same can be said of our current physical bodies (we'll eventually get new ones), but that does not absolve us of the responsibility to take care of them in the here and now.

I guess what I'm saying is that I see a pretty big disconnect between A) the good and wholesome, and yet also measured and reasonable, calls for environmental stewardship, and B) the politicizes, alarmist, misanthropic, doom-n-gloom, very-likely-to-have-ulterior-motives alarmism being peddled all the time.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Kenngo1969]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

... By the way, I have a countdown clock running on AOCs declaration that the world will end in 12 years, presumably unless her wacky “green new deal” is enacted. Currently, we have 10 years, 2 weeks and 3 days left. 

My uncle raises cows as a retirement hobby.  I wrote my Auntie & Uncle, "Tell Charles to keep sendin' us that good cow, 'cause if the Environmentalist Wackos really are right, and if cow farts really are gonna destroy the Universe as We Know It in a few years anyway, at least we might as well eat good before it finally happens!"

Edited January 5, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

... If your reading this Pres. Nelson, hit me up bro, I'll get you started with some great pointers🤣.

    

Your hubris, even in jest, is astounding.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Your hubris, even in jest, is astounding.

Bet Pres Nelson would have laughed.

[Kenngo1969]

4 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

 If your reading this Pres. Nelson, hit me up bro, I'll get you started with some great pointers🤣.

    

 

14 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Your hubris, even in jest, is astounding. [P.S.: And by the way, "your" =/= "you're" ... Just sayin'!]

 

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Bet Pres Nelson would have laughed.

Both of you are absolutely free to think that I'm nothing more than a humorless twit.  That won't bother me one bit, since none of us ever are actually likely to  meet in real life.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[AtlanticMike]

28 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

Both of you are absolutely free to think that I'm nothing more than a humorless twit.  That won't bother me one bit, since none of us ever are actually likely to  meet in real life.

Kenngo1969, please dont think of yourself as a humorless twit! I find you extremely funny, I laugh everytime I look at your profile picture. 🤣🤣🤣😘

[rodheadlee]

2 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

East coast cities haul barges of garbage out to the deep sea to dump garbage, including New York City.  What alternative would you propose?  

Incinerate it, recycle it. How long do you think it will take to kill the ocean?

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

My uncle raises cows as a retirement hobby.

Well I am in your grump club now I guess so I guess we both have a lot in common. 

All three of us have chosen shoveling.... uh, well just shoveling, as our avocation!  

 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Both of you are absolutely free to think that I'm nothing more than a humorless twit. 

I guess we will have to figure out how to split those duties here.... at least it's good to be selected for a calling  😇.   It gives one a sense of meaning in life.  🤔

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

Kenngo1969, please dont think of yourself as a humorless twit! I find you extremely funny, I laugh everytime I look at your profile picture. 🤣🤣🤣😘

I'm sure you do.  You're not the only one with that reaction.  A few years ago, there was a story in the news about a guy who killed his wife in their cabin on a cruise, reportedly because she started laughing at him and couldn't stop.  My comment on the story was that if people starting to laugh at me and not being able to stop were considered an acceptable motive for murder, my hit list would be exceptionally long.  (And I wrapped it up by saying that I guess I just have "one of those faces.")

Welcome to my hit list.

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Your hubris, even in jest, is astounding.

Kenngo1969. Actually I'd like to thank you, you've helped me realize that I dont belong on here. I'm tired of defending myself on here. I try to be positive, and you guys see it as cockiness. I've read lots of post in the past few weeks and I cant believe how a handful of people on here have mastered the art of handing out snide remarks, and acting like they have all the answers. Its depressing actually. This type of Mormonism isnt what I'm used to, maybe its because people are more comfortable being a-holes through a computer screen. But I'm not, I dont like feeling like i have to throw jabs. I dont like reading through post and seeing the "regulars" on here correct other board members  who might not write with proper grammar all the time, if you read through post, it always happens when someone pisses one of the "elites" off. It's always men that do it, it's as if you guys have no self esteem, you cant help yourself. Mormonism will never last with the attitudes displayed by the handful of men on this board who think their crap dont stink. For me, I'm going to stay positive, love my family and pray daily to never become as dead inside as the handful of men on here that think they've already reached Godhood. Peace out.

[Kenngo1969]

40 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Kenngo1969. Actually I'd like to thank you, you've helped me realize that I dont belong on here. I'm tired of defending myself on here. I try to be positive, and you guys see it as cockiness. I've read lots of post in the past few weeks and I cant believe how a handful of people on here have mastered the art of handing out snide remarks, and acting like they have all the answers. Its depressing actually. This type of Mormonism isnt what I'm used to, maybe its because people are more comfortable being a-holes through a computer screen. But I'm not, I dont like feeling like i have to throw jabs. I dont like reading through post and seeing the "regulars" on here correct other board members  who might not write with proper grammar all the time, if you read through post, it always happens when someone pisses one of the "elites" off. It's always men that do it, it's as if you guys have no self esteem, you cant help yourself. Mormonism will never last with the attitudes displayed by the handful of men on this board who think their crap dont stink. For me, I'm going to stay positive, love my family and pray daily to never become as dead inside as the handful of men on here that think they've already reached Godhood. Peace out.

Judge much?   Pot, meet kettle?

P.S.:  And someone should tell the mods that I'm the privileged poster here that you think I am ...

Edited January 5, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

East coast cities haul barges of garbage out to the deep sea to dump garbage, including New York City.  What alternative would you propose?  

Certainly not our vital ocean! I'm sure there's plenty of land to find to get rid of it.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Tacenda

[Kenngo1969]

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Certainly not our vital ocean! I'm sure there's plenty of land to find to get rid of it.

I'm shocked, Tacenda.  When I saw you'd posted the latest post here, I was expecting you to tell me how mean I'm being to Poor Atlantic Mikey!

[Tacenda]

13 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm shocked, Tacenda.  When I saw you'd posted the latest post here, I was expecting you to tell me how mean I'm being to Poor Atlantic Mikey!

Nah, you can hold your own Kenngo! I hope you and he patch what ever went wrong with your discourse with each other soon, life's too short. And we're all friends, hopefully, on here. 

[Kenngo1969]

27 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Nah, you can hold your own Kenngo! I hope you and he patch what ever went wrong with your discourse with each other soon, life's too short. And we're all friends, hopefully, on here. 

Alas!  I fear I've driven him away permanently!   

[The Nehor]

15 hours ago, bluebell said:

Just read an article on how low frequency radio waves have created a protective bubble around the earth that keeps out radiation.  It was nice to read something on how we accidentally did something good to our environment.

https://www.ign.com/articles/theres-a-human-made-bubble-surrounding-earth-and-its-keeping-radiation-away?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm

It sounds good until the aliens start listening to them and realize how disturbed we are and sterilize the planet to prevent us from spreading out.

[JustAnAustralian]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

and sterilize the planet to prevent us from spreading out.

Keep an eye out for black monoliths.

[The Nehor]

21 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

I have a neighbor that believes she's an environmentalist so she buys certain clothes that are environmentally friendly, drives a hybrid, and so and so on. But everything she buys is brand new. As a "environmentalist " she drives a hybrid, but buys a new hybrid car every 2 years. That's not environmentalism, she's part of the problem. All her clothes are new, she wouldn't dare be seen in second hand clothes. She hires a company to maintain her grass, they spray to kill the weeds, that's not what environmentalist should be doing. She's 100lbs overweight, stays inside and watches the TV nonstop while consuming endless amounts of food, not what an environmentalist should be doing.

    On the other , my family drives vehicles, we never worrying about the milage or looks, we have vehicles that have over 300,000 miles on them, I rebuild the engines and transmissions myself, taught myself how to do it off you tube, man or women can do it. We buy second hand clothes without ever thinking about it, we dont care. We raise 60% of the meat we consume. We dont kill the weeds in our yard. Dont have cable TV, just YouTube and Netflix basically. We stay fit so there's less trips to the doctor. BUT!! She thinks I'm the one killing the planet🤣. Not even realizing she's a manufacturers dream, shes the one helping keep assembly plants open all around the world producing parts for her new cars, clothes, endless amounts of chicken tenders and slim Jim's. My family's life style helps reduce greenhouse gases and we dont even think about it that much. While my "environmentalist" neighbor has made environmentalism a religion, she cant even see that she's the problem.  

   We have grown to become a soft people, mentally and physically, relying on others to do everything for us. It takes alot of outside energy to live that lifestyle. We need to learn how to do for ourselves selves again. Environmentalism is becoming a world religion.

There is a lot of performative environmentalism where people buy hybrid cars and have them flown in on a private jet that put out more pollutants in that one trip than any care is likely to its lifetime. In truth the most environmentally responsible method of car ownership is to wear out the car you have and then get an environmentally responsible one later because producing a car causes more damage than using a car for years.

The big problem we face is that consumer-level environmentalism is a drop in the bucket. If we want to reverse trends it has to be done on a macro level and that means businesses and that means costing them money. Being conscientious on an individual level is good but it is not changing much. I have changed my habits so that I produce about half a kitchen trash bag of garbage every week but I am not going to save the earth by doing so.

A counterpoint that for some people their waste products may have a greater impact than anything else they do: https://www.theonion.com/man-s-garbage-to-have-much-more-significant-effect-on-p-1819578908

14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

By the way, I have a countdown clock running on AOCs declaration that the world will end in 12 years, presumably unless her wacky “green new deal” is enacted. Currently, we have 10 years, 2 weeks and 3 days left. 

Unfair and not really what was meant. She was saying what younger generations are concerned about in a kind of glib misunderstood complaint and her comment basically matches the UN 2018 report that 2030 would be roughly the year of "no return" to keep the increased temperature to about 3 degrees Fahrenheit. No one except maybe some fringe weirdos think humanity will be extinct from climate change in a dozen years. She has said this herself but some political groups are holding onto that statement relentlessly hoping it will discredit climate change in general and make it look ridiculous. It might work but it won't change reality. I hoped Covid would teach us this lesson but....nope.

She did the same thing when she said that when she is talking about taxing the rich she is referring to "about 10 people".

Her response to those people who take that and the climate change comment seriously: "This is a technique of the GOP, to take dry humor + sarcasm literally and 'fact check' it. Like the 'world ending in 12 years' thing, you’d have to have the social intelligence of a sea sponge to think it’s literal. But the GOP is basically Dwight from The Office so who knows."

If you want to keep your clock going anyways you do you I guess.

Edited January 5, 2021 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Kenngo1969. Actually I'd like to thank you, you've helped me realize that I dont belong on here. I'm tired of defending myself on here. I try to be positive, and you guys see it as cockiness. I've read lots of post in the past few weeks and I cant believe how a handful of people on here have mastered the art of handing out snide remarks, and acting like they have all the answers. Its depressing actually. This type of Mormonism isnt what I'm used to, maybe its because people are more comfortable being a-holes through a computer screen. But I'm not, I dont like feeling like i have to throw jabs. I dont like reading through post and seeing the "regulars" on here correct other board members  who might not write with proper grammar all the time, if you read through post, it always happens when someone pisses one of the "elites" off. It's always men that do it, it's as if you guys have no self esteem, you cant help yourself. Mormonism will never last with the attitudes displayed by the handful of men on this board who think their crap dont stink. For me, I'm going to stay positive, love my family and pray daily to never become as dead inside as the handful of men on here that think they've already reached Godhood. Peace out.

Wait! Hold on! We have "elites" here? Why have I not been invited to this elite club? I demand answers!

[The Nehor]

On 1/3/2021 at 5:39 PM, rchorse said:

My biggest concern with climate change is that the shifting availability of resources, primarily water, will lead to war. I think alarmism over the climate, as well as denial of human impact on the climate, both contribute to the likelihood of war.

That said, I think God expects us to be good stewards over the earth and do all we can to protect it. We should research and find ways to minimize our impact personally nationally, and globally.

The issues of climate and shifting resources can be solved if people work together. Politicians on both sides seem to care more about using the climate as a way to grow their power than making any real progress. I think Latter-day Saints can help most by trying to increase the level of discourse, kindness, and cooperation in our respective nations. Sadly cooperation is now seen as weakness, at least in American politics.

“When all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death.” -Hobbes

I think that is virtually inevitable. Canada better watch out when the US's arable land starts shifting north. This will cause massive agricultural issues as you can't just suddenly start industrialized farming newly climate-ideal land without a lot of effort. The adjustment will take time. We will also start to see the effects of the ongoing mass extinction event. Extinction is a normal process but it is estimated to be going on at a rate of 100 to 1,000 times the normal rate.

We can either make sacrifices now to try to mitigate the coming crises or we can wait and make bigger forced sacrifices later. It is going to require a lot of cooperation, massive alterations to our economic and social structures, a political will to collectively sacrifice for the greater good, and probably more. I am not optimistic.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

East coast cities haul barges of garbage out to the deep sea to dump garbage, including New York City.  What alternative would you propose?  

Kentucky is right there.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Kenngo1969. Actually I'd like to thank you, you've helped me realize that I dont belong on here. I'm tired of defending myself on here. I try to be positive, and you guys see it as cockiness. I've read lots of post in the past few weeks and I cant believe how a handful of people on here have mastered the art of handing out snide remarks, and acting like they have all the answers. Its depressing actually. This type of Mormonism isnt what I'm used to, maybe its because people are more comfortable being a-holes through a computer screen. But I'm not, I dont like feeling like i have to throw jabs. I dont like reading through post and seeing the "regulars" on here correct other board members  who might not write with proper grammar all the time, if you read through post, it always happens when someone pisses one of the "elites" off. It's always men that do it, it's as if you guys have no self esteem, you cant help yourself. Mormonism will never last with the attitudes displayed by the handful of men on this board who think their crap dont stink. For me, I'm going to stay positive, love my family and pray daily to never become as dead inside as the handful of men on here that think they've already reached Godhood. Peace out.

Translation:

"I am sick of the snobbery and malice here so I am going to passive-aggressively thank someone while actually insulting them, judge everyone here as snide and egotistical, take light editorial jabs as personal attacks, decide everyone here is pathologically insecure, claim that the people here will ultimately be the death of their faith, throw in a dash of misandry, and will now hie off to live my best life in some less sin-infested environment with those righteous persons with sufficient self-esteem who admit publicly and repeatedly that their crap doth stink. And it is all YOUR FAULT THAT I AM LEAVING AND YOU SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!! Toodles."

Most of that is true but only about me but not true of most of the posters here. In any case: Buh-bye.

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

There is a lot of performative environmentalism where people buy hybrid cars and have them flown in on a private jet that put out more pollutants in that one trip than any care is likely to its lifetime. In truth the most environmentally responsible method of car ownership is to wear out the car you have and then get an environmentally responsible one later because producing a car causes more damage than using a car for years.

The big problem we face is that consumer-level environmentalism is a drop in the bucket. If we want to reverse trends it has to be done on a macro level and that means businesses and that means costing them money. Being conscientious on an individual level is good but it is not changing much. I have changed my habits so that I produce about half a kitchen trash bag of garbage every week but I am not going to save the earth by doing so.

A counterpoint that for some people their waste products may have a greater impact than anything else they do: https://www.theonion.com/man-s-garbage-to-have-much-more-significant-effect-on-p-1819578908

Unfair and not really what was meant. She was saying what younger generations are concerned about in a kind of glib misunderstood complaint and her comment basically matches the UN 2018 report that 2030 would be roughly the year of "no return" to keep the increased temperature to about 3 degrees Fahrenheit. No one except maybe some fringe weirdos think humanity will be extinct from climate change in a dozen years. She has said this herself but some political groups are holding onto that statement relentlessly hoping it will discredit climate change in general and make it look ridiculous. It might work but it won't change reality. I hoped Covid would teach us this lesson but....nope.

She did the same thing when she said that when she is talking about taxing the rich she is referring to "about 10 people".

Her response to those people who take that and the climate change comment seriously: "This is a technique of the GOP, to take dry humor + sarcasm literally and 'fact check' it. Like the 'world ending in 12 years' thing, you’d have to have the social intelligence of a sea sponge to think it’s literal. But the GOP is basically Dwight from The Office so who knows."

If you want to keep your clock going anyways you do you I guess.

It’s not unfair. She is a public servant and is accountable for the tenor and content of her public statements. They are fair game for public response and commentary, just as mass media are accountable for what they publish or broadcast. She needs to put on her big-girl pants and recognize that. 
 

Her subsequent remarks blaming others for their reaction and casting aspersions on their intelligence is a white wash. If you look at her original statement, which garbled what the UN body said, there is nothing in it to convey to a reasonable listener or reader that she was engaging in “dry humor” or “sarcasm.” It seemed in dead earnest, and nothing in it indicated otherwise. How is someone with normal intellect supposed to know she’s joking about that when she brings forth the “green new deal” and expects to be taken seriously on that?
 

But this has strayed into the political realm, so I won’t continue it. Just know in advance that whatever rejoinder you make I will probably disagree with but not respond to. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Scott Lloyd