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New lawsuits for alleged Boy Scouts sex abuse cover-up


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2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Can you provide a reference for the bolded part?  I'm not formally CFRing you....

I am because everything I have read says otherwise, but does not provide stats for that specific detail and if there are stats for it, I would really like to see them to see if it is a myth that children are frequently not believed. 

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3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Can you provide a reference for the bolded part?  I'm not formally CFRing you, I'm just interested in hearing where the statement comes from.  

I know of no research which indicates that parents typically disbelieve children.  Most children do not even tell an adult about their trauma.  "In the case of Jerry Sandusky, out of the 10 young men who came forward, only one revealed the crime to a parent at the time the abuse occurred. The mother did everything right. She believed her son. She went to the university. She went to the police. She reported, and persevered. But the authorities dismissed her claims as baseless."  https://lacasacenter.org/why-child-abuse-victims-dont-tell/.  It was not the parent in that case who failed, but others, many of whom were summarily fired when their dereliction was discovered.  Those idiots included the university president and the head coach.  All conspired to fail.  Leadership position does not equal high ethical and moral values.  In fact, there is very good reason to doubt the probity of people in high places -- who got there primarily due to their strong desire for power.

 

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5 hours ago, bluebell said:

Yes, I’ve never seen a Cub Scout troop that did interact with the Boy Scouts. I wasn’t referring to that. I was referring to church Cub Scout packs being managed by the church similarly to how they manage scout troops, so that under normal leaders couldn’t just move or be reassigned to a different pack if they got in trouble with their original one.

But I acknowledged that there could be some areas where a limited amount of Cub scouts meant the church troops were organized differently than usual.

Yes, one could in fact be moved from den to den, or from cubs to scouts, or vice versa, though I know of no case when that actually took place to hide a predator.  The old LDS cases I know of involved LDS predators who moved to a new town and continued the predation -- due to failure to excommunicate and to track the offender.  That is why it is so important to obtain convictions and have a public sex offender registry.  Some people simply cannot be allowed around children.

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54 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

know of no research which indicates that parents typically disbelieve children. 

You believe if a child tells one parent they don’t like it when the other parent touches them a certain way, the first parent will always go to ‘my spouse is abusing my child!’ rather than ‘my child is exaggerating’ or something else?  Or if one says ‘my brother....’, the parent always accepts that the sibling is abusing the child even if the sibling denies it?

There are so many cases out there where families have been divided and children further traumatized because children have been disbelieved by the other parent or grandparents, and the adult relative protected.  Even when adults, parents will justify doing nothing by claiming the adult child’s memory is wrong or that they were a difficult child, etc. 

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Whether or not they typically disbelieve, parents in denial is common enough to be frequently studied from what I have seen. For example:

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1273&context=ylpr

https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/child-abuse-and-the-role-of-parental-denial/

https://www.mosac.net/page/21

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53 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

But the authorities dismissed her claims as baseless." 

Which seems to indicate there were a number of adults who did not believe the child. 

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49 minutes ago, Calm said:

You believe if a child tells one parent they don’t like it when the other parent touches them a certain way, the first parent will always go to ‘my spouse is abusing my child!’ rather than ‘my child is exaggerating’ or something else?  Or if one says ‘my brother....’, the parent always accepts that the sibling is abusing the child even if the sibling denies it?

There are so many cases out there where families have been divided because children have been disbelieved by the other parent or grandparents, and the adult relative protected. 

 

43 minutes ago, Calm said:

Whether or not they typically disbelieve, parents in denial is common enough to be frequently studied from what I have seen. For example:

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1273&context=ylpr

https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/child-abuse-and-the-role-of-parental-denial/

https://www.mosac.net/page/21

Those are all excellent articles and should be read by any parent facing such problems.  However, nowhere in those articles is their any claim that parents typically go into denial or refuse to believe the child.  Indeed, even in those case in which denial takes place, it is often clear that the parent actually believes the child, is horrified by the discovery, and chooses not to deal with it.  There are even cases in which the child kills the predator, https://scholarship.law.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1716&context=lawreview , and https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/397911 .

Here are some horrendous stats from https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS:

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HOMICIDE

  • A study of intimate partner homicides found that 20% of victims were not the intimate partners themselves, but family members, friends, neighbors, persons who intervened, law enforcement responders, or bystanders.3
  • 72% of all murder-suicides involve an intimate partner; 94% of the victims of these murder suicides are female.8

CHILDREN AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

  • 1 in 15 children are exposed to intimate partner violence each year, and 90% of these children are eyewitnesses to this violence.5

However, that does not mean that the average person is involved in those events.  This is a very small proportion of the overall population.

Edited by Robert F. Smith
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14 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

Those are all excellent articles and should be read by any parent facing such problems.  However, nowhere in those articles is their any claim that parents typically go into denial or refuse to believe the child.  Indeed, even in those case in which denial takes place, it is often clear that the parent actually believes the child, is horrified by the discovery, and chooses not to deal with it.  There are even cases in which the child kills the predator, https://scholarship.law.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1716&context=lawreview , and https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/397911 .

Here are some horrendous stats from https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS:

However, that does not mean that the average person is involved in those events.  This is a very small proportion of the overall population.

I don’t think you have the data to accurately state it is rare a child isn’t believed.  Disbelief doesn’t have to be typical to not be rare.  I am challenging the statement of fact that disbelief is rare. I am not claiming disbelief is typical.

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I never told as a 5 year old or a 11 year old of being exposed to by a teenage neighbor and an older man that would hand out candy to the girls on their way home from school that lived in some apartments behind his former large home. 

I have often wondered if this is considered a type of sexual abuse. I do think it affected me in many ways.

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22 hours ago, Calm said:

I don’t think you have the data to accurately state it is rare a child isn’t believed.  Disbelief doesn’t have to be typical to not be rare.  I am challenging the statement of fact that disbelief is rare. I am not claiming disbelief is typical.

I have seen no research on the question.  I have only my personal experience:  At 5 years of age I old a big lie about a big deal and was fully believed by my parents.  To avoid a spanking.  Later as an adult, I confessed to my Dad, and we both laughed about it.  However, at that time, it put my Dad's life in jeopardy.  I was too young to understand the full ramifications.  The point is that, for good or ill, my parents always believed me, and I think that to be true of most kids' parents.

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10 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

have only my personal experience: 

And I have my experiences (close relative) that have a father screaming at his preschool kids telling them to admit they lied about being molested by their step siblings.

Then there is Freud who set things up for a generation or two or more to think such stories were fantasies of kids.   There are still those who take his theory seriously:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201802/searching-evidence-the-oedipus-complex%3famp

There is tons of research out there on parents in denial that their partner is abusing their children.  While this presence doesn’t give rates, it being a common research topic suggests it is not as rare as you seem to think.

There is a natural revulsion to the idea of an adult having sexual relationships with children that may not have been present in your lie to your parent. In order to believe a child, an adult has to overcome that revulsion and accept that not only is there someone who has committed revolting acts, but that their child has been damaged by it. It is much more comfortable for most to believe the child is mistaken or making things up as while that is a problem for the child, there is no physical harm and things can get back to normal once the child realizes their mistakes with no harm done.  But if the child is believed, that means not only have they suffered harm, it is necessary to remove or even divorce one’s partner, get the police involved, be thought about as the parent who was in clueless and not protecting their child at best and complicit at worst. 

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In your link that you gave of why children don’t tell, they make a huge point of how important it is to believe the child. Why is that point being so strongly made of disbelief is so rare?

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The single most damaging thing a parent can do in this situation is to dismiss, disregard or outright negate the child’s attempt to reveal the abuse. Survivors tell us that the failure of a parent to believe them is a wound that never truly heals

That does not sound like a “rare” circumstance. 
 

In the trial, one of the witnesses said his guidance counselor didn’t believe him while a social worker did once he provided sufficient details. So some adults will believe, but others will let their own biases persuade themselves the child or youth is lying. 
 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jerry-sandusky-trial-victim-1-testifies-that-school-counselor-didnt-believe-him/

Edited by Calm
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I think it's much less likely that a victim is believed, exactly because someone has victimised them. The conditions that make disclosures clear and understood are also conditions that help prevent abuse.

For example if a victim does not understand consent and abuse, their disclosure might look more like a shameful confession or something else.

Predators exploit the false notion that a victim shares responsibility. Even if the victim wants the abuse to stop they are made to feel guilty or responsible for it. This is one reason disclosures are delayed, as it can take time for a victim of abuse to learn they are in fact a victim. 

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10 hours ago, Calm said:

And I have my experiences (close relative) that have a father screaming at his preschool kids telling them to admit they lied about being molested by their step siblings.

Then there is Freud who set things up for a generation or two or more to think such stories were fantasies of kids.   There are still those who take his theory seriously:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201802/searching-evidence-the-oedipus-complex%3famp

There is tons of research out there on parents in denial that their partner is abusing their children.  While this presence doesn’t give rates, it being a common research topic suggests it is not as rare as you seem to think.

There is a natural revulsion to the idea of an adult having sexual relationships with children that may not have been present in your lie to your parent. In order to believe a child, an adult has to overcome that revulsion and accept that not only is there someone who has committed revolting acts, but that their child has been damaged by it. It is much more comfortable for most to believe the child is mistaken or making things up as while that is a problem for the child, there is no physical harm and things can get back to normal once the child realizes their mistakes with no harm done.  But if the child is believed, that means not only have they suffered harm, it is necessary to remove or even divorce one’s partner, get the police involved, be thought about as the parent who was in clueless and not protecting their child at best and complicit at worst. 

You're overthinking it, Calm.  Anecdotal data confirm nothing.  Most parents are stable, and have well-integrated personalities.  Not everyone is a basket case.  The notion that everyone is a true believing, hysterical Freudian is probably just not credible.  Reminds me of the typical Hollywood star who is in constant therapy, drinks, smokes, and does drugs to take the edge off.  Nothing normal about them.  Yet it is assumed that these are normal people.  Such people don't fit a normal, statistical curve.

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27 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Anecdotal data confirm nothing.  

Then why did you bring up your own anecdote...that had nothing to do with child sexual abuse apparently...thank goodness.  My anecdote did though.  I unfortunately can point to many more.  Unless you believe these anecdotes are lies (which would seem to disprove your position that children are rarely disbelieved), the presence of so many may not be able to demonstrate disbelief is common, but it certainly suggests it is not rare.  Anecdotes do not confirm, but they are evidence and can be used to suggest avenues of research....and there is a mass of research on parents in denial.  
 

You made a statement of fact that has only been supported by an irrelevant anecdote and your one mother who believed and then was told her child’s claims were baseless (and it is an assumption that all the adults involved believed, but dismissed it for personal gain; it is quite possible some involved were in denial).  I presented the contrary evidence of the school counselor in that case that disbelieved the youth because Sandusky was a good man or whatever.  So one mom who believed and another adult who didn’t and a number who cried baseless who we can’t be sure about if they knew or not (though some named in the case admit to knowing).

27 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Most parents are stable, and have well-integrated personalities.  Not everyone is a basket case.  The notion that everyone is a true believing, hysterical Freudian is probably just not credible

Strawman alert with the Freud thing...I mentioned a possible influence that tainted viewpoints in the past and that is still being discussed seriously by some and therefore may still have some impact on how some people perceive what might trigger a child claiming they were molested.  At the very least, there are plenty of perpetrators that claim the child approached them or spouses in denial that blame the child for trying to destroy the relationship with the other parent.  But in no way did I present it as a dominant belief in our current culture.

You don’t seem to be paying much attention to what I have been posting and go off instead on irrelevant tangents (for example, your father believing one lie doesn’t mean he would have believed you if you came to him and said his beloved brother or father molested you, more than likely your lie was a very different dynamic than that; victims killing predators...how does that demonstrate they were believed when they reported they were abused?), so I think I will end it with this...Children who sexually abused are often targeted because they are vulnerable and why are they vulnerable?  Because often their family is not stable or well-integrated including the parents.

https://defendinnocence.org/child-sexual-abuse-risk-reduction/proactive-parenting/reduce-risk/11-factors-that-increase-the-risk-of-child-sexual-abuse/

Check out the risk factors involving family...stressed, blended (meaning there has been divorce or death and remarriage or partnership), domestic abuse. 

Edited by Calm
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Changed my mind as found some data, but board won’t let me quote...censoring I am guessing.

https://www.wmbfnews.com/2019/11/21/too-many-people-dont-believe-these-children-recognizing-child-sex-abuse-signs-could-change-court-outcomes/

 

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Our experiences in childhood play a big part in shaping our health and well-being throughout our lives. Sexual abuse in childhood can leave scars that can last for a long time. But many cases are never reported....

Some people feel very scared about reporting abuse. They may feel embarrassed, guilty or ashamed. Some people blame themselves or believe that they deserved to be abused. Others report abuse, but they aren’t taken seriously or believed. Sexual abuse is a crime. It can have a large impact on health and well-being.

https://www.heretohelp.bc.ca/infosheet/childhood-sexual-abuse-a-mental-health-issue

 

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Sadly, disclosure of childhood sexual abuse is often met with disbelief, anger, or rejection. This leaves a child feeling isolated, unnoticed and unsure. Children say they don’t disclose because they are afraid of the consequences to themselves and others, they feel ashamed or in some way responsible for the abuse, they are unsure whether an abuse has occurred, or they do not know where to turn to for help. Children therefore make calculated decisions about disclosing; they consider who they will tell, whether they will be believed and how much detail they should provide.

 

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A related area of study is people’s reaction to disclosure. A large number of studies document whether reactions were supportive or non-supportive and the specific details of the reaction (Lamb & Edgar-Smith, 1994; Arata, 1998; Sauzier, 1983; Ullman, 2003; Aherns, Campbell, Ternier-Thames, Waco & Sefi, 2007; Fisher, Daigle, Cullne & Turner, 2003; Moors & Webber, 2012). The types of positive reactions most common are belief /validation, not being blamed, emotional support (listening, holding the victim, asking helpful questions) and active instrumental support such as confronting the perpetrator (Ullman, 2003). Sauzier (1998) detected that telling at a younger age was significantly associated with less supportive reactions.


Negative reactions include shock and disbelief, blaming the victim or accusing them of lying, ignoring or minimising the disclosure, anger, rejection by parents, punishing the victim and avoiding further discussion (Sauzier, 1998; Ullman, 2003; Moors & Webber, 2012; Schaeffer et al. 2011). Incredulity as a common reaction fits well with Summit’s (1992) observations that “protective denial surrounding abuse is seen as a natural consequence of the needs of almost all adults to insulate themselves from the painful realities of childhood victimisation” (p.179).


Schaeffer et al. (2011) note that parents struggle with, and are overwhelmed by, why their child did not tell them or waited to tell them about their abuse. They suggest that helping parents understand reasons why disclosure can be difficult for children “will allow parents to move beyond crippling feelings or guilt and begin to help children recover” (p.351).
Negative reactions appear to be the norm in cases of sibling sexual abuse. Parents regularly react to a disclosure of sibling sexual abuse with anger, disbelief and often blame the victim (Ballentine, 2012; Hardy, 2001; McVeigh, 2003; Tsun, 1999; Carlson, et al. 2006; Laviola, 1992; Finkelhor, 1980). Such reactions prevent further disclosure to non-family members. Tsun’s (1999) case study of sibling sexual abuse in Hong Kong provides rich description of a mother’s anger and denial on learning of her son’s abuse of his sister with the shameful nature of the experience being defined by both the mother and daughter

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Most often childhood disclosure of sexual abuse are met with disbelief, ignorance, anger and rejection of the child The experience can make people feel isolated, unnoticed and unsure.


 

In case you missed it:

 

Quote

Incredulity as a common reaction fits well with Summit’s (1992) observations that “protective denial surrounding abuse is seen as a natural consequence of the needs of almost all adults to insulate themselves from the painful realities of childhood victimisation” (p.179).


 

http://www.community.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/321644/Literature_Review_How_Children_Disclose_Sexual_Abuse.pdf

Edited by Calm
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Many CSA victims have reported they delayed or refrained from disclosing their abuse be- cause they feared they would not be believed (Furniss, 1991; Gomes-Schwartz et al., 1990; Summit, 1983). This fear is not only one instilled by perpetrators to maintain the child’s silence, it is one that is borne out in reality for too many children. Results of two studies found nearly one child in ten who disclosed their sexual victimization reported their disclosure was received with disbelief (Berliner & Conte, 1995; Gomes-Schwartz et al., 1990). The study by Gomes- Schwartz et al. (1990) revealed that children’s initial disclosures failed to lead to any interven- tion in 17% of the cases. Lack of intervention was attributed to the disbelief of the confidant in approximately half of these cases. The remainder were attributed to the failure of the confidant to take any effective action to halt the abuse. Nearly 52% of adult incest survivors responding to a questionnaire reported their abuse continued for a year or more following their disclosure to a parent (Roesler & Wind, 1994). Results of a recent study of female college freshmen re- vealed that very few reported they received any type of legal or therapeutic intervention follow- ing their childhood disclosure of sexual abuse (Arata, 1998).

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&context=psychfacpub

10% of disclosures not being believed is not “rare”.

Quote

According to Roesler and Wind (1994), however, parents are not necessarily supportive in such situations, with disbelieving and rejecting reactions to disclosure quite common. Of their sample of adult women who had allegedly been abused sexually by relatives and had disclosed abuse during child- hood (before they were 16), only 37% recalled supportive reactions from their parents, whereas 63% reported non-supportive reactions. Similarly negative reactions to disclosure have been reported by other researchers (Ageton, 1983; Jehu, 1989: but see also Palmer et al., 1999). 

https://childusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Hershkowitzetal-DisclosureofCSA.pdf

If this isn’t enough research to establish for you disbelief is not uncommon, I suggest searching on “disclosure”, “disbelief”, and “child sex abuse”.  I pulled up a number of relevant articles, but need to sleep.

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As far as kids lying in general:

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Call them fibs, whoppers or straight-up untruths: However you label them, kids are likely to lie somewhere along the way. While a younger child may conjure up an elaborate tale about how she couldn’t possibly have kicked a younger sibling, older kids may flat-out lie about doing their homework.

Sometimes the onset of lying is sudden and intense, reports Matthew Rouse, PhD, a clinical psychologist at the Child Mind Institute. “It’s a new thing where they were pretty truthful most of the time before and then suddenly they’re lying about a lot of stuff,” he says. This, of course, is concerning to parents. But if caregivers can understand why kids lie and be prepared to deal with the issue, the truth can come out.

Why kids lie

 Most parents think children lie to get something they want, avoid a consequence or get out of something they don’t want to do. These are common motivations, but there are also some less obvious reasons why kids might not tell the truth — or at least the whole truth.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/childmind.org/article/why-kids-lie/amp/

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On 1/2/2021 at 1:29 AM, Calm said:

Then why did you bring up your own anecdote...that had nothing to do with child sexual abuse apparently...thank goodness.  My anecdote did though.  I unfortunately can point to many more.  Unless you believe these anecdotes are lies (which would seem to disprove your position that children are rarely disbelieved), the presence of so many may not be able to demonstrate disbelief is common, but it certainly suggests it is not rare.  Anecdotes do not confirm, but they are evidence and can be used to suggest avenues of research....and there is a mass of research on parents in denial.  
 

You made a statement of fact that has only been supported by an irrelevant anecdote and your one mother who believed and then was told her child’s claims were baseless (and it is an assumption that all the adults involved believed, but dismissed it for personal gain; it is quite possible some involved were in denial).  I presented the contrary evidence of the school counselor in that case that disbelieved the youth because Sandusky was a good man or whatever.  So one mom who believed and another adult who didn’t and a number who cried baseless who we can’t be sure about if they knew or not (though some named in the case admit to knowing).

Strawman alert with the Freud thing...I mentioned a possible influence that tainted viewpoints in the past and that is still being discussed seriously by some and therefore may still have some impact on how some people perceive what might trigger a child claiming they were molested.  At the very least, there are plenty of perpetrators that claim the child approached them or spouses in denial that blame the child for trying to destroy the relationship with the other parent.  But in no way did I present it as a dominant belief in our current culture.

You don’t seem to be paying much attention to what I have been posting and go off instead on irrelevant tangents (for example, your father believing one lie doesn’t mean he would have believed you if you came to him and said his beloved brother or father molested you, more than likely your lie was a very different dynamic than that; victims killing predators...how does that demonstrate they were believed when they reported they were abused?), so I think I will end it with this...Children who sexually abused are often targeted because they are vulnerable and why are they vulnerable?  Because often their family is not stable or well-integrated including the parents.

https://defendinnocence.org/child-sexual-abuse-risk-reduction/proactive-parenting/reduce-risk/11-factors-that-increase-the-risk-of-child-sexual-abuse/

Check out the risk factors involving family...stressed, blended (meaning there has been divorce or death and remarriage or partnership), domestic abuse. 

All good points, Calm, but miss my focus on the absence of any research which indicates that parental disbelief is common or the norm.  Anecdotal claims either way prove nothing, and we can both add anecdotal items till the cows come home.  The only reason I used anecdotal evidence was because you had used it.  A cynic tends to see  the world based on his own negative personal experience, but so too for the pollyanna seeing everything in an unrealistic positive light.  That tells us more about them than about the true nature of the world they live in.

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1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

All good points, Calm, but miss my focus on the absence of any research which indicates that parental disbelief is common or the norm.

My argument has never been that it was the norm or even common nor was my argument restricted to parents, but rather that it was not rare for an adult as you originally claimed.  

I have put up data now so the dismissal based on just having anecdotes is obsolete.  See links and quotes above with studies. 
 

You used anecdotal evidence first btw, your own personal experience. My anecdote of my relatives came after that. 

Edited by Calm
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22 hours ago, Calm said:

My argument has never been that it was the norm or even common nor was my argument restricted to parents, but rather that it was not rare for an adult as you originally claimed.  

I have put up data now so the dismissal based on just having anecdotes is obsolete.  See links and quotes above with studies. 
 

You used anecdotal evidence first btw, your own personal experience. My anecdote of my relatives came after that. 

Actually you said "There are so many cases out there where families have been divided and children further traumatized because children have been disbelieved by the other parent or grandparents, and the adult relative protected.  Even when adults, parents will justify doing nothing by claiming the adult child’s memory is wrong or that they were a difficult child, etc.  "

America has a large population, so that we are going to see lots of cases (in toto).  The same applies to crime in general.  Even though America has plenty of crime, most people have never been arrested, much less jailed.  Cops may get jaded from dealing almost exclusively with criminals, and therefore lose perspective on ordinary, law-abiding people (the vast majority).  The same applies to CPS personnel.  Everyone becomes a suspect, and denial itself becomes suspicious.

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Speaking as someone who lived thru child sexual abuse, I have an observation that belongs here.

For the first instance of abuse, responsibility primarily belongs with the perpetrator. For every instance of abuse that followed, however, that can be fairly be laid at the feet of police, who's actual freaking job it was to intercede.

For over 100 years in the US (until ~30yrs ago), millions of individual police officers where largely uninterested in what happened to kids. Children  - as in me, as in we - knew from hard-learned experience that going to cops was far, far more likely to get you new mistreatment (eg: being gaslit and humiliated, or worse) than make you safer.

I could understand why this assertion might seem puzzling to someone a lot younger than I am. Especially considering we've had a generation of LEO and pols bullhorning about child abuse. My explanation is that during the 1980s and 1990s, political winds shifted and addressing child sexual abuse started to come with tons of new political power and fat budgets. Prior to that though - for pretty much the entire history of police - that wasn't the case at all. Kids were absolutely on their own. Take a problem to cops and you wound up with two problems. Kids learned that pretty quickly.

Were there exceptional cops during this time? We can safely assume there were. We're talking millions of police over 100+ years so there'd have to be. I don't personally have any stories to pass along but it seems reasonable that some cops, somewhere listened to children and acted in a meaningfully helpful way.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Fun fact: The first protecting children from abuse movement in western society grew as a secondary goal of an animal abuse prevention movement. Yeah, we were trying to protect animals before we protected children.

It grows out of the patriarchal concept that fathers (and to a lesser extent mothers) in a sense owned their children and were accountable to no one as to how they treated them. I remember President Hinckley talking about a friend’s father that beat him for any infraction. Note that there was no reporting to anyone. There was no one to report to. This is not to suggest that all parents are abusive but there was no legal mechanism to fight child abuse. At worst you might face social scorn.

There was little even an exceptional cop could do.

Edited by The Nehor
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