Tithing shakedown

[Rain 8,973]

17 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Thankfully that is an experience I am unlikely to have. Single men are only called as bishops in very rare circumstances and I don’t live in an area likely to be in any of those situations.

I read a novel where a single man was called as bishop and then told he needed to find a wife.  Maybe you need to be called so you can get the extra help from heaven to find the wife.

[Kenngo1969 7,565]

2 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said:

What would that have solved?

but yesterday I got a phone call from him apologizing, he looked into the matter and found that I was right.

now he wants me to show him how he can do it this way as well, I made an enemy into an friend.

    

[Scott Lloyd 20,430]

3 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said:

What would that have solved?

but yesterday I got a phone call from him apologizing, he looked into the matter and found that I was right.

now he wants me to show him how he can do it this way as well, I made an enemy into an friend.

Or he did. 
 

Who accused whom on a public message board of engaging in a “shakedown”? 
 

But I guess the important thing is the two of you have resolved your differences. 

[Hamba Tuhan 11,001]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Thankfully that is an experience I am unlikely to have. Single men are only called as bishops in very rare circumstances and I don’t live in an area likely to be in any of those situations.

The last time I served in a bishopric, I was first counsellor to a bishop whose work had him away literally two (sometimes even three!) weeks a month for most of the period. I think that's the closest I will ever get ...

[PacMan 388]

5 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said:

What would that have solved?

but yesterday I got a phone call from him apologizing, he looked into the matter and found that I was right.

now he wants me to show him how he can do it this way as well, I made an enemy into an friend.

No, you didn’t. You caused a problem. You had a loving Bishop that wanted to mend a wound you created. Good for him. 
 

Bishops have a duty to safeguard temple entrance. That’s by a temple recommend. And that includes tithing. If he had a question, he absolutely had a right and duty to investigate. And you had a duty to be meek enough to go along with it. 

[Doctrine 612 175]

1 hour ago, PacMan said:

No, you didn’t. You caused a problem. You had a loving Bishop that wanted to mend a wound you created. Good for him. 
 

Bishops have a duty to safeguard temple entrance. That’s by a temple recommend. And that includes tithing. If he had a question, he absolutely had a right and duty to investigate. And you had a duty to be meek enough to go along with it. 

Whatever.

You mean I brought light and truth to this man.

yeah, I meek does not mean letting people control or abuse you.

[The Nehor 26,547]

5 hours ago, Rain said:

I read a novel where a single man was called as bishop and then told he needed to find a wife.  Maybe you need to be called so you can get the extra help from heaven to find the wife.

I wouldn't wish marriage with me on anyone I would actually want to marry.

[PacMan 388]

34 minutes ago, Doctrine 612 said:

Whatever.

You mean I brought light and truth to this man.

yeah, I meek does not mean letting people control or abuse you.

Your unjustified victim mentality will only bring you pain and grief. I’m sorry. 

[Bernard Gui 8,464]

On 12/29/2020 at 10:47 AM, 2BizE said:

I have heard from a number of friends over the years that have complained of this tithing shakedown.  It is not uncommon. Some Bishops find it important to ensure no stone is unturned to investigate any potential voluntary donor not donating every dime possible to the Mormon cause / charity.

This is contrary to everything I have ever been taught or have experienced since I was ordained an elder in 1966. I do not believe it is common. Serious misinformation here.

[Bernard Gui 8,464]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The last time I served in a bishopric, I was first counsellor to a bishop whose work had him away literally two (sometimes even three!) weeks a month for most of the period. I think that's the closest I will ever get ...

If you are wise, that's the closest you should ever want to get.

[bluebell 27,755]

7 hours ago, MrShorty said:

Correct. If I understand correctly, the specific incident involved Pres. George Albert Smith (during an era when the Church was struggling financially) and someone asked him the same question. I guess part of the question is whether Pres. Smith's answer represents an eternal truth or was it more specific to a time when the Church really needed the money. Now that the Church is on much more solid financial footing, is it as important for members to pay tithing to the Church in the tithing box?

That would depend on whether or not the money is the Lord’s. 

[MrShorty 40]

10 hours ago, bluebell said:

That would depend on whether or not the money is the Lord’s. 

Are we saying that "10% of a person's income is the Lord's." and "The Lord wants said person to distribute that 10% to a soup kitchen and/or homeless shelter and/or food bank and/or [insert favorite charity here]" are mutually exclusive statements? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me.

[rchorse 614]

1 minute ago, MrShorty said:

Are we saying that "10% of a person's income is the Lord's." and "The Lord wants said person to distribute that 10% to a soup kitchen and/or homeless shelter and/or food bank and/or [insert favorite charity here]" are mutually exclusive statements? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me.

They're only mutually exclusive if you believe that the prophets of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints actually speak for the Lord on the matter. If you don't believe that, you can do whatever you want. If you do believe it, they've been pretty clear that tithing needs to be paid to the church to be considered a full tithe payer.

[JLHPROF 10,189]

4 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

Are we saying that "10% of a person's income is the Lord's." and "The Lord wants said person to distribute that 10% to a soup kitchen and/or homeless shelter and/or food bank and/or [insert favorite charity here]" are mutually exclusive statements? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me.

Tithing isn't only for feeding the poor etc.  Donating tithing money to charities instead of the Church defeats the God stated purposes of the law.

[Bob Crockett 1,781]

On 12/29/2020 at 5:44 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Ahab is completely wrong:  It is only between the giver and the Lord.  No one else's business.

I had a relief society president tell me I needed to counsel a family about tithing.  They were temple workers. I did.  A big mistake.  No stake president ever told me to do it.  It is between the family and the Lord.

[Bob Crockett 1,781]

I once had a widow who was disabled and on social security pay $5 a month in tithing.  She was on church food assistance.  I  was a stupid bishop and asked my stake president about it and got a stupid answer.  Never again.  

[Kenngo1969 7,565]

As much as I think Bishops and Stake Presidents should be wise stewards of the Lord's resources, and as much as I think people should obey their file leaders, if a Stake President told me, "You need to kick that hornet's nest," I hope I would be wise enough to demur.  And if he said, "No, really.  You need to kick that hornet's nest," whereupon I gave it a half-hearted little nudge with the very tip of my toe, and he said, "No.  Not that way.  You need to kick it ... really," I hope I would have the courage, still, to demur.  And if he wanted to release me, so be it.

But I'll never be in either position, so ...   

[Kenngo1969 7,565]

I entered the following query into Google: "I want to pay my tithing directly to Church Headquarters LDS"

To be fair, this was the second or third result, not the first, so perhaps people who are conditioned to click on the first result thinking that it's the best would have a problem, but one of the results returned was:

https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/wiki/Donations_to_Church_Headquarters

Which has all kinds of good information, including about making donations in kind (goats, unfortunately, apparently are excluded ).

[Calm 40,649]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

half-hearted little nudge with the very tip of my toe, and he said, "No.  Not that way.  You need to kick it ... really," I hope I would have the courage, still, to demur.

Add perhaps “I need time to study, ponder, and pray on your instruction.  I will let you know what the Spirit teaches me when he does.”

[The Nehor 26,547]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

As much as I think Bishops and Stake Presidents should be wise stewards of the Lord's resources, and as much as I think people should obey their file leaders, if a Stake President told me, "You need to kick that hornet's nest," I hope I would be wise enough to demur.  And if he said, "No, really.  You need to kick that hornet's nest," whereupon I gave it a half-hearted little nudge with the very tip of my toe, and he said, "No.  Not that way.  You need to kick it ... really," I hope I would have the courage, still, to demur.  And if he wanted to release me, so be it.

But I'll never be in either position, so ...   

The best response is to say you have the authority and ability to do this too. If you feel this strongly about it you should take care of this.

[Bob Crockett 1,781]

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I entered the following query into Google: "I want to pay my tithing directly to Church Headquarters LDS"

To be fair, this was the second or third result, not the first, so perhaps people who are conditioned to click on the first result thinking that it's the best would have a problem, but one of the results returned was:

https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/wiki/Donations_to_Church_Headquarters

Which has all kinds of good information, including about making donations in kind (goats, unfortunately, apparently are excluded ).

As my income is now entirely in Bitcoin and paid my tithing in Bitcoin.  No response.