strappinglad Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? Link to comment
Tacenda Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, strappinglad said: The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? I went through the same thing. Maybe have a prayer in our hearts and minds throughout the day? I'm trying to do that, or speak to God like a best friend throughout the day. I haven't accomplished this yet though it's on my mind to do this, but then I let days go by w/o doing this. I wonder if the early teachings of how to pray properly didn't help but only hurt our prayers. The way to say a prayer with thee's, thou's and thine's might not be the proper way either. Edited December 27, 2020 by Tacenda Link to comment
Popular Post InCognitus Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, strappinglad said: The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? I think the context of that verse is helpful: "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." (Matthew 6:7) One of the footnotes to Matthew 6:7 in our LDS scriptures is to 3 Nephi 19:24: "And it came to pass that when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him; and they did not multiply many words, for it was given unto them what they should pray, and they were filled with desire." Some other Bible translations of Matthew 6:7 translate it as "babbling", or with a similar idea in mind. NIV: "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words." NET: "When you pray, do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by their many words they will be heard." ESV: “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words." So there doesn't seem to be an issue with giving thanks for the same things or asking for the same blessings in every prayer, but more against repeating the same idea over and over in the same prayer. Edited December 27, 2020 by InCognitus 7 Link to comment
Popular Post Fether Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 @strappinglad Couple thoughts: - Repetition is not bad, vain repetition is. If you are saying things because it is what you are suppose to say, that is vain. If you are honestly hoping for what you are saying, that is the correct approach - One thing I have started doing is when I am about to say something like “bless my child so that he will learn to read”, I either replace that or follow it up with things like “please help me to remember to work on the ABCs with him” or “bless me with patience as I try to sit with him and keep him focused on the topic of learning the ABCs.” Instead of asking wishfully for things, try replacing them with asking God to help you develop the attributes or accomplish tasks that will lead to things that that will make those prayers come true. - I have a journal that I keep open during my prayer so I can write down thoughts and inspiration I have. That helps my prayers be focused and done with intent 12 Link to comment
InCognitus Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 One more thought.... The scriptures give us examples of when praying for the same thing in each of our prayers is a good thing. Think about the prayers of Alma (and the people with him) on behalf of his son, Alma: "Behold, the Lord hath heard the prayers of his people, and also the prayers of his servant, Alma, who is thy father; for he has prayed with much faith concerning thee that thou mightest be brought to the knowledge of the truth; therefore, for this purpose have I come to convince thee of the power and authority of God, that the prayers of his servants might be answered according to their faith." (Mosiah 27:14) I'm sure it's safe to say that these people did not pray for Alma the younger only one time. Here are some other examples: "But I, Nephi, have written what I have written, and I esteem it as of great worth, and especially unto my people. For I pray continually for them by day, and mine eyes water my pillow by night, because of them; and I cry unto my God in faith, and I know that he will hear my cry." (2 Nephi 33:3) And then we have what Jesus says about praying for our families in 3 Nephi 18:21: "Pray in your families unto the Father, always in my name, that your wives and your children may be blessed." 1 Link to comment
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 I just want to add to the voices that are pointing out that repetitions are not bad per se, but it is the vanity that is bad. Praying to appear pious, praying an "empty" prayer (vain comes from the Latin vanus, meaning empty). I'm preemptively defending the Rosary Like any prayer, the Rosary can devolve into "vain repetitions." Prayed properly, it is heartfelt and contemplative. In fact, (something most Catholics don't know) we are supposed to contemplate different mysteries of the faith while we pray the Rosary. Done properly, praying the Rosary is a deep prayer. 9 Link to comment
Popular Post 3DOP Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said: I just want to add to the voices that are pointing out that repetitions are not bad per se, but it is the vanity that is bad. Praying to appear pious, praying an "empty" prayer (vain comes from the Latin vanus, meaning empty). I'm preemptively defending the Rosary Like any prayer, the Rosary can devolve into "vain repetitions." Prayed properly, it is heartfelt and contemplative. In fact, (something most Catholics don't know) we are supposed to contemplate different mysteries of the faith while we pray the Rosary. Done properly, praying the Rosary is a deep prayer. Thanks Miserere. Any vocal prayer is probably subject to "vain repetitions". But we also know from the Old Testament, especially the Psalms, that litanies, and other forms of repetitive vocal prayer cannot be necessarily dismissed out of hand. The key as another LDS poster also observed, is the condemnation of empty prayer. The Psalm below will be either 134 or 136 for those using Protestant numbering. (We all use the same texts but number the Psalms differently to arrive at 150). Psalm 135: Praise the Lord, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. Praise ye the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. Praise ye the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who alone doth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who made the heavens in understanding: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who established the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who made the great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever. The sun to rule over the day: for his mercy endureth for ever. The moon and the stars to rule the night: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who smote Egypt with their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever. With a mighty hand and a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who divided the Red Sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever. And brought out Israel through the midst thereof: for his mercy endureth for ever. And overthrew Pharao and his host in the Red Sea: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who led his people through the desert: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever. And slew strong kings: for his mercy endureth for ever. Sehon king of the Amorrhites: for his mercy endureth for ever. And Og king of Basan: for his mercy endureth for ever. And he gave their land for an inheritance: for his mercy endureth for ever. For an inheritance to his servant Israel: for his mercy endureth for ever. For he was mindful of us in our affliction: for his mercy endureth for ever. And he redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever. Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever. Give glory to the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever. Give glory to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. In a spirit of contemplation, repetitive prayers, especially those approved by the Church (Old or New) have the ability to rouse the soul by degrees. Voiced In a distracted manner, repetitive prayers can be felt as a weight, and perhaps an obligation which cannot be finished too soon. I think it is valuable to say the Rosary and other approved prayers like the one above even when we are distracted, if our distractions are involuntary. We obviously know that God is glorified and we are uplifted more through undistracted prayer. But in my experience, that is a gift which seems fleeting. Surely God knows what He is doing in allowing us to have a taste of undistracted prayer before allowing a feast of it? I believe it pleases God when we recognize our frailties with trust in God, and no confidence in self, and beg Him for a gift to which we are undeserving, the gift of continuous interior prayer, while carrying on with distracted vocal exercises. Our desire to be undistracted seems like a prayer in itself, and a recognition of our own unworthiness and helplessness in this all-important matter. Of course, there are also those times when we may need to repent of checking off a list of our spiritual exercises while glad to be done with them. I am certain that the Holy Rosary and even the prayers of the Sacred Liturgy are susceptible to being condemnable according to our dispositions while we are praying them. What I am pleased to avoid is the notion that we are expected to be constantly figuring out new ways of verbally expressing ourselves. Our adoration and gratitude, our misery and petitions, are to God who sees more than words, and who sees in to the very depths of our souls perfectly. It is our desires, not just the words, upon which the value of our prayers rest. Edited December 27, 2020 by 3DOP 5 Link to comment
CV75 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 3 hours ago, strappinglad said: The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? I think "vain" is the key here. It can take many forms, many of which I see mentioned in other posts. I'll add to that superstition, hedging one's bets and not acknowledging God's will. 1 Link to comment
Doctrine 612 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 If the prayer is said with real feelings then your good. when they turn to just empty words then it time for self reflection 2 Link to comment
JAHS Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Tacenda said: I went through the same thing. Maybe have a prayer in our hearts and minds throughout the day? I'm trying to do that, or speak to God like a best friend throughout the day. I haven't accomplished this yet though it's on my mind to do this, but then I let days go by w/o doing this. I wonder if the early teachings of how to pray properly didn't help but only hurt our prayers. The way to say a prayer with thee's, thou's and thine's might not be the proper way either. Tevia knows how to talk to God. 2 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 9 hours ago, strappinglad said: The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? Repeated expressions of gratitude, if they are heartfelt, don’t strike me as “vain repetitions.” What this conveys to me is the idea of florid rhetoric meant as much or more to impress listeners than it is to sincerely communicate with Deity. 2 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 hours ago, JAHS said: Tevia knows how to talk to God. This is awesome. My niece is a Medium and during a reading, my first ever, when I told her that I don't get any signs from my parents who've passed on she mentioned calling out their names out loud, not always thinking of them in my mind. I figure that's what it's like with God, I believe he's there for us, but maybe needs us to just talk to him like he's in the room. This reminds me of this youtube I watched just today of Jimmy Stewart's famous prayer in It's a Wonderful Life. Link to comment
Ipod Touch Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Fether said: Repetition is not bad, vain repetition is Truth. I think prayer is about having an open heart and the humility to "vocalize" our thanks and shortcomings. And also to ask for help. Like many things in the Gospel, the act of prayer is a blessing in itself. Link to comment
Ahab Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 12/27/2020 at 9:59 AM, strappinglad said: The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? I think of how birds sing in the mornings when I say my morning prayers every morning. Pretty much the same song every day and I think I am probably at least as happy as a bird to have a new day to sing about every morning. A "vain" thing is a useless thing, like something that is said with pretty much no thought going into what is being said. Like when some people say something like: "Lord, make us truly thankful (for yada yada)" If they don't appreciate something what makes them think the Lord wants to make them grateful for it? They are either thankful for it or they are not and the Lord wants them to make their own decisions. 3 Link to comment
3DOP Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Ahab said: I think of how birds sing in the mornings when I say my morning prayers every morning. Pretty much the same song every day and I think I am probably at least as happy as a bird to have a new day to sing about every morning. A "vain" thing is a useless thing, like something that is said with pretty much no thought going into what is being said. Like when some people say something like: "Lord, make us truly thankful (for yada yada)" If they don't appreciate something what makes them think the Lord wants to make them grateful for it? They are either thankful for it or they are not and the Lord wants them to make their own decisions. Ahab, Hi. You are probably at least as happy as a bird that sings the same song every day! Heh. Thanks. 1 Link to comment
Islander Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 12/27/2020 at 10:59 AM, strappinglad said: The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? I suggest that you meditate on several aspects of your life and the role that your Heavenly Father plays in those areas. Do you praise Him for ALL that He has done in your life and continue to do? Do you praise Him for who He is and the qualities of His being that are the absolute essence of what it is to be His follower? Do you pray for your family members, individually and by name? Do you pray for Him to allow His Spirit into their lives so that their lives are improved in spiritual ways in a fruitful manner? Do you pray for those that have hurt you in the past (or continue to do so) or that you struggle in your interactions with them? Do you repent and confess your sins, ask for forgiveness and strength to overcome your weaknesses and shortcomings? Do you pray for His help in becoming who you need to become, "until Christ is formed in you"? If you really open your heart to God in this fashion you will be praying for an hour before you know it. Just some thoughts. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Islander said: I suggest that you meditate on several aspects of your life and the role that your Heavenly Father plays in those areas. Do you praise Him for ALL that He has done in your life and continue to do? Do you praise Him for who He is and the qualities of His being that are the absolute essence of what it is to be His follower? Do you pray for your family members, individually and by name? Do you pray for Him to allow His Spirit into their lives so that their lives are improved in spiritual ways in a fruitful manner? Do you pray for those that have hurt you in the past (or continue to do so) or that you struggle in your interactions with them? Do you repent and confess your sins, ask for forgiveness and strength to overcome your weaknesses and shortcomings? Do you pray for His help in becoming who you need to become, "until Christ is formed in you"? If you really open your heart to God in this fashion you will be praying for an hour before you know it. Just some thoughts. Nope, still too annoyed at Him. Link to comment
pogi Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 On 12/27/2020 at 10:59 AM, strappinglad said: The scriptures warn against vain repetitions in prayer. I have been concerned in my own prayers that I give thanks for the same things and ask for the same blessings .These are things that I honestly am grateful for and things I need in my life, and yet I wonder if I sound like a broken record ( for those old enough to get this reference ) . Any suggestions? Here is one of the greatest lessons the Lord has taught me about prayer through praying: "Let your life be a prayer unto me", is what I heard and felt profoundly in my heart. That answer shattered my previous perceptions of what prayer could/should be. This answer came to me when I was meditating upon the scriptural injunction to pray always. That always puzzled me. There are different forms of prayer and all are appropriate at different times. One of my favorite forms of prayer requires no words at all - meditative prayer. I feel strongly that when we act and live in gratitude to God, our very lives become a savory smoke from our offering that rises up and pleases the Lord. Quote Let my prayer be set before You as incense, The lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice. Psalms 142:2 1 Link to comment
pogi Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) On 12/27/2020 at 12:26 PM, MiserereNobis said: I just want to add to the voices that are pointing out that repetitions are not bad per se, but it is the vanity that is bad. Praying to appear pious, praying an "empty" prayer (vain comes from the Latin vanus, meaning empty). I'm preemptively defending the Rosary Like any prayer, the Rosary can devolve into "vain repetitions." Prayed properly, it is heartfelt and contemplative. In fact, (something most Catholics don't know) we are supposed to contemplate different mysteries of the faith while we pray the Rosary. Done properly, praying the Rosary is a deep prayer. One of my favorite contemplative prayers I have learned from a Benedictine monk of your faith, is to use the word "Maranatha" (Come o' Lord) as a mantra in prayer. Talk about repetition! Edited January 22, 2021 by pogi 1 Link to comment
Islander Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 19 hours ago, The Nehor said: Nope, still too annoyed at Him. Yeah, I know the feeling. But, recognize (and it is hard) that at the core of any broken relationship there is selfishness and pride. And those are the middle names of every human. He wants a relationship with you. He is looking for you from afar and will eagerly run to meet you before you can close the distance on your own. That is, my brother, the message of the parable of the Prodigal. A Father whose joy will eco across the eternities when His son who was lost returns. He had no regard, not did He wait for explanations for He needed none. He knew His son had repented and was coming home. The Father's mercy and grace have no end. Hang in there. 1 Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) On 12/27/2020 at 11:26 AM, MiserereNobis said: I just want to add to the voices that are pointing out that repetitions are not bad per se, but it is the vanity that is bad. Praying to appear pious, praying an "empty" prayer (vain comes from the Latin vanus, meaning empty). I'm preemptively defending the Rosary Like any prayer, the Rosary can devolve into "vain repetitions." Prayed properly, it is heartfelt and contemplative. In fact, (something most Catholics don't know) we are supposed to contemplate different mysteries of the faith while we pray the Rosary. Done properly, praying the Rosary is a deep prayer. On the other hand we have litanies, I am not even sure if LDS folks know what that word means I find them quite meditative, myself https://youtu.be/ZEJddliapxY Edited January 22, 2021 by mfbukowski 1 Link to comment
MiserereNobis Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: On the other hand we have litanies, I am not even sure if LDS folks know what that word means I find them quite meditative, myself https://youtu.be/ZEJddliapxY Yep! For those LDS who peeked at the video, notice how the congregation recites "have mercy on us." In Latin, that is "miserere nobis," from which I take my name 2 Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Yep! For those LDS who peeked at the video, notice how the congregation recites "have mercy on us." In Latin, that is "miserere nobis," from which I take my name I recall doing that litany with a couple of hundred congregants, and it became very much like a song when the words melted into spirit and totally lost their literal meaning. The rythm of the words changed and the response became phonetically "Have mer, See on us", -an interesting idea in itself! I nearly made my moniker here "Domine, non sum dignus" Edited January 22, 2021 by mfbukowski 1 Link to comment
pogi Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 On 12/27/2020 at 12:26 PM, MiserereNobis said: I'm preemptively defending the Rosary Like any prayer, the Rosary can devolve into "vain repetitions." Prayed properly, it is heartfelt and contemplative. In fact, (something most Catholics don't know) we are supposed to contemplate different mysteries of the faith while we pray the Rosary. Done properly, praying the Rosary is a deep prayer. I told this story in another thread, but one of the things that has recently endeared me to Biden was the story of one of his friends who asked him on inauguration day, "are you going to be okay?". President Biden stopped him, put his hand on his friends shoulder and pulled out his rosary beads and said "I am going to okay." In searching for that story online, which I cannot find, I came across this video which gives a deeper significance of those beads (from Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico) to him. He stated they are like a meditation for him and give him great solace, but he also feels a touching and deep connection to his son Beau through those beads. The whole clip is very touching and terribly sad, and it is interesting to see his hesitance to run in 2020. The part about the beads is at 2:04. 2 Link to comment
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