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Praise To The Man!


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17 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

 

Gee I wonder who came up with that silly idea.

probably someone who thought we are reproductions of our ancestors as they reproduced themselves into us as their children and that the best way for us to be the best we can be is to be as good as our ancestors could possibly become

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4 hours ago, Ahab said:

Yes but HE answers to and worships God HIS Father the same way that we will still continue to worship God OUR Father and our GRAND Father worships HIS Father, etc etc etc forever and ever and ever!!!

"How has it transpired that theological truth is thus so widely disseminated? It is because God was once known on the earth among his children of mankind, as we know one another. Adam was as conversant with his Father who placed him upon this earth as we are conversant with our earthly parents. The Father frequently came to visit his son Adam, and talked and walked with him; and the children of Adam were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather, and their children were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather; ". Brigham Young.

"...when we arrive at that point, a vail (sp. veil) is dropped, and our knowledge is cut off. Were it not so, you could trace back your history to the Father of our spirits in the eternal world. He is a being of the same species as ourselves; He lives as we do, except the difference that we are earthly, and He is heavenly. He has been earthly, and is of precisely the same species of being that we are. Whether Adam is the personage that we should consider our heavenly Father, or not, is considerable of a mystery to a good many. I do not care for one moment how that is; it is no matter whether we are to consider Him our God, or whether His Father, or His Grandfather, for in either case we are of one species---of one family---and Jesus Christ is also of our species. ". Brigham Young

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
            6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen

Edited by JLHPROF
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Some want to get rid of “Praise to the Man” because they’re worried about how the public perceives it. To this, I say that there is no virtue in appeasing the public when the public is wrong. 

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2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Some want to get rid of “Praise to the Man” because they’re worried about how the public perceives it. To this, I say that there is no virtue in appeasing the public when the public is wrong. 

I would also say keeping it is an opportunity to clarify.

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1 hour ago, theplains said:

Clarify what?

That he is honored and revered by the Latter-Day Saints as a prophet of God and a seer, like Abraham of Moses, and not someone whom we worship.

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On 1/5/2021 at 9:28 PM, JLHPROF said:

That's one heck of an understatement compared to "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."

The account from 26-May 1844 says that he accomplished more than Jesus.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/discourse-26-may-1844-as-compiled-by-leo-hawkins/3

Quote

"I am the only man that ever has been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam— a large majority of the whole have stood by me:— neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus never did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as me— the followers of Jesus ran away from him, the Latter Day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good family people."

From this quote I think Joseph was boasting in God like Ammon.  Otherwise it sounds like John 14:12, "and greater works than these will he do" 

Edited by blueglass
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1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

That he is honored and revered by the Latter-Day Saints as a prophet of God and a seer, like Abraham of Moses, and not someone whom we worship.

He is comparable to Samuel the Seer where all Israelites had NO doubt of his calling - - -

1 Samuel 3:

19. And Samuel grew, and the Lord was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.
20. And all Israel from Dan even to Beer-sheba knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the Lord.
21. And the Lord appeared again in Shiloh: for the Lord revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the Lord.

Edited by longview
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21 minutes ago, blueglass said:

The account from 26-May 1844 says that he accomplished more than Jesus.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/discourse-26-may-1844-as-compiled-by-leo-hawkins/3

From this quote I think Joseph was boasting in God like Ammon.  Otherwise it sounds like John 14:12, "and greater works than these will he do" 

There is some question as to the accuracy of the quote:

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Narcissism/Boasting#Question:_Is_the_quote_of_Joseph_Smith.27s_.22boasting.22_of_keeping_the_Church_intact_accurate.3F
 

Quote

The date of the sermon is 26 May 1844. A month later, the Prophet was dead. Did he supervise this entry? No. The last years of his entries in the History of the Church were actually made by others after his death.[2] It was common at the time for other authors to write as if someone else was speaking. So, these are not Joseph's words--they are the words which others (who admired him enormously after his murder) put in his mouth. The basic content is more likely to be accurate than the subtle details of tone and style.

This point is vitally important to keep in mind when trying to assess the character of Joseph Smith, his moral and spiritual quality, through the so-called "Documentary History." Even when it seems to have Joseph Smith speaking in the first person, the History of the Church may or may not actually be representing Joseph Smith's actual voice. (Dean Jessee's "Preface" to his collection of The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith specifically addresses the issue of the seeming egotism that entered into Joseph's later statements which was quite foreign to the man himself--this came not because Joseph suddenly became egotistical, but because the voice we hear is no longer Joseph's: it is the work of scribes following his death. They felt comfortable "praising" Joseph in ways which he would probably not have used.)

 

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4 hours ago, Calm said:

There is a direct correlation between the boasting from 26 May 1844 as he repeated this again in his 16 June 1844 discourse at the grove east of the temple

https://rsc.byu.edu/words-joseph-smith/16-june-1844-1-sunday-morning-grove-east-temple

Paul what do you say—they impeached Paul & all Went & left him

[38]—Paul had 7 churches & they drove him off from among them—& yet they cannot do it by me—I rej. in that—my test. is good—Paul—says there is one Glory of the Sun the moon & the Stars—& as the Star differs &c [39]

https://rsc.byu.edu/book/words-joseph-smith

 

Edited by blueglass
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20 minutes ago, blueglass said:

There is a direct correlation between the boasting from 26 May 1844 as he repeated this again in his 16 June 1844 discourse at the grove east of the temple

https://rsc.byu.edu/words-joseph-smith/16-june-1844-1-sunday-morning-grove-east-temple

[38]—Paul had 7 churches & they drove him off from among them—& yet they cannot do it by me—I rej. in that—my test. is good—Paul—says there is one Glory of the Sun the moon & the Stars—& as the Star differs &c [39]

https://rsc.byu.edu/book/words-joseph-smith

 

The other important piece of context, if we assume the source is accurate, is what it says at the very beginning of the account:   "Prest. J. Smith read 11th Ch 2nd Corinthians."    2nd Corinthians chapter 11 is where Paul is boasting:   "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.  Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also".  (2 Cor 11:17-18)  He is trying to parallel some of the things that Paul said in that chapter.

Edited by InCognitus
Fixed the 2 Corinthians 11 reference
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5 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

The other important piece of context, if we assume the source is accurate, is what it says at the very beginning of the account:   "Prest. J. Smith read 11th Ch 2nd Corinthians."    1st Corinthians chapter 11 is where Paul is boasting:   "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.  Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also".  (2 Cor 11:17-18)  He is trying to parallel some of the things that Paul said in that chapter.

FM places the quote in this context later in the link, just an FYI.

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7 hours ago, blueglass said:

The account from 26-May 1844 says that he accomplished more than Jesus.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/discourse-26-may-1844-as-compiled-by-leo-hawkins/3

From this quote I think Joseph was boasting in God like Ammon.  Otherwise it sounds like John 14:12, "and greater works than these will he do" 

We need to bear in mind that the provenance and accuracy of this quote is under question, as with much of the material attributed to Joseph but written by scribes. 
 

Added comment: I see now that Calm has pre-empted me on this. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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On 12/31/2020 at 3:55 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

For the second time (or the fourth or fifth, if you count Kenngo’s reminders to you), “would of” and “could of” are not proper English. It’s “would HAVE” and “could HAVE,” or, if you must use a contraction, “would’ve” or “could’ve.” 
 

 

you miss the beauty and glory of Jesus our saviour......................

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21 minutes ago, mac7 said:

you miss the beauty and glory of Jesus our saviour......................

I think there was probably a very beautiful thought in your mind when you wrote these words but some people will probably not catch on to that thought because of what you wrote vs what you could have written to make that thought more obvious.

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6 hours ago, mac7 said:

you miss the beauty and glory of Jesus our saviour......................

Ah well, If that’s true, I suppose I’ll have to deal with it. 
 

Meanwhile, do you grasp yet that “could of” and “would of” are not proper English? 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Ah well, If that’s true, I suppose I’ll have to deal with it. 
 

Meanwhile, do you grasp yet that “could of” and “would of” are not proper English? 

Some people just type how they speak, which is fine in my book mostly!

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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Some people just type how they speak, which is fine in my book mostly!

As I’ve pointed out here at least twice, there’s a way to do that in this instance while using good English. That is done through the use of contractions, i.e. could’ve and would’ve, not “could of” or “would of”. 
 

As Kenngo succinctly put it:

of =/= have. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As I’ve pointed out here at least twice, there’s a way to do that in this instance while using good English. That is done through the use of contractions, i.e. could’ve and would’ve, not “could of” or “would of”. 
 

As Kenngo succinctly put it:

of =/= have. 

True

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8 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Yes.  Some beings like seraphims and cherubim.

What makes you think they aren't human?

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26 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

What makes you think they aren't human?

The seraphim are described as having six wings (Isaiah 6:1–4) and what others
believe are cherubs have four wings (Ezekiel 1:1-10; 10:5).

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1 hour ago, telnetd said:

The seraphim are described as having six wings (Isaiah 6:1–4) and what others
believe are cherubs have four wings (Ezekiel 1:1-10; 10:5).

Pure poetry and folklore.

Some teachings of the Prophet Joseph and scripture from an article - https://www.ldsliving.com/Angels-Don-t-Have-Wings-4-More-Things-We-Know-About-Them/s/78951

"The Prophet Joseph Smith taught, “An angel of God never has wings.” The widely held notion that angels have wings originated from several sources.

First, the scriptures set forth that seraphs (Hebrew, seraphim) have wings (see Isaiah 6:2). Ezekiel (Ezekiel 1:9-11) and John (Revelation 4:8) envisioned living creatures with wings; these wings are probably not literal but, rather, symbolic of angels’ abilities to move about. In fact, when the Prophet Joseph inquired about this subject, he received the answer that the wings are a “representation of power, to move, to act, etc.” (D&C 77:4).

Doctrine and Covenants 130:4-5 states: “In answer to the question—Is not the reckoning of God’s time, angel’s time, prophet’s time, and man’s time, according to the planet on which they reside? I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.” Accordingly, the well-known angels Michael, Gabriel, John the Baptist, Peter, James, John, Moroni, and many others are historical persons who have lived upon this earth. Other angels who have ministered on this earth may have done so before they were born in the flesh.

Edited by JLHPROF
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On 1/10/2021 at 3:59 PM, teddyaware said:

That he is honored and revered by the Latter-Day Saints as a prophet of God and a seer, like Abraham of Moses, and not someone whom we worship.

I don't really have a problem with the hymn.  Always liked it and never viewed it as worship.  On the other hand the problem with your argument is we don't have any hymns that I am aware of that sing praises to Abraham, Moses, Peter, Brigham Young, etc.

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