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Praise To The Man!


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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Joseph was more than just OK. In the words of Doctrine and Covenants 135, “he lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people.”

I’ve observed that in our modern day self-consciousness and rush to assure the world that we don’t worship Joseph Smith, we unduly denigrate him. No, he wasn’t perfect. But he was a better man than most; certainly better than his detractors, then or now. 

He was a far greater man than even many members are ready to acknowledge.  Just reading the descriptions of him and his calling by Brigham and John Taylor give a far better indication of his position in eternity.

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5 hours ago, Chum said:

Joseph was pretty okay. 

That's one heck of an understatement compared to "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."

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1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

One of the things I love most about the Prophet Joseph is his complete humanity. It makes him relatable. I love that the mercy of God, ratified through the Great Atoning Sacrifice, allows Him to reveal Himself to even people like me. Joseph's example is an invitation to come unto Christ in all our messy reality and be perfected in Him.

Jesus Christ told Joseph, imprisoned in the jail at Liberty, Missouri, at the time, that his adversity and afflictions would be (comparatively speaking) but a small moment, and that if he endured it well, he would be exalted. 
 

That’s the difference between Joseph and many lesser people. He endured it well. 

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On 1/4/2021 at 4:56 PM, teddyaware said:

Scott Lloyd is correct. The context of this quote is that the prophet Joseph Smith is speaking specifically of the two kinds of saved beings who can be found in the celestial kingdom after having passed through the portal of death on earth. The first group are those who have already been been resurrected from the dead and judged worthy to receive an inheritance in the celestial kingdom. The second group are the spirits of holy men who have also been judged worthy of receiving an inheritance in the celestial kingdom but who have not yet received the resurrection.

Are there angels in heaven who are not spirit children of heavenly parents?

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35 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Are there angels in heaven who are not spirit children of heavenly parents?

Do you mean nonhuman angels?

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43 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Are there angels in heaven who are not spirit children of heavenly parents?

No.  An angel is simply a person who acts as a messenger, whether that person is a spirit only or a spirit clothed/combined with a mortal body or a spirit clothed/combined with a resurrected body. 

And all persons/people have parents whether in heaven or on earth.

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57 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Are there angels in heaven who are not spirit children of heavenly parents?

All angels, spirits, mortals are spirit children of our heavenly parents

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1 minute ago, JAHS said:

All angels, spirits, mortals are spirit children of our heavenly parents

Hmm, "our" heavenly parents?  I'm not so sure about that, although I would say we are all probably related to each other somehow.  The universe is a very big place and I think some of our kind would call our parents their uncles or aunts or cousins.

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27 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Hmm, "our" heavenly parents?  I'm not so sure about that, although I would say we are all probably related to each other somehow.  The universe is a very big place and I think some of our kind would call our parents their uncles or aunts or cousins.

Another universe might have it's own godhead and heavenly parents for all their spirits. But there is only one set of heavenly parents for all the spirits in our universe. That's how I understand it.

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11 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Another universe might have it's own godhead and heavenly parents for all their spirits. But there is only one set of heavenly parents for all the spirits in our universe. That's how I understand it.

Okay, I can accept that as your understanding.  My understanding is that there is only one universe... the one (uni) place where every other place is... and that our parents aren't necessarily everybody else's parents.

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43 minutes ago, Ahab said:
56 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Another universe might have it's own godhead and heavenly parents for all their spirits. But there is only one set of heavenly parents for all the spirits in our universe. That's how I understand it.

Okay, I can accept that as your understanding.  My understanding is that there is only one universe... the one (uni) place where every other place is... and that our parents aren't necessarily everybody else's parents.

When you consider that those who obtain the celestial kingdom in the future are going to be gods, they won't be the god of this universe; we already have one. There must be other universes that they create and populate with their own spirit children.

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Joseph Smith was more human than thought by those who insist on deifying him and more divine than thought by those who insist on secularizing him.

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1 minute ago, JAHS said:

When you consider that those who obtain the celestial kingdom in the future are going to be gods, they won't be the god of this universe; we already have one. There must be other universes that they create and populate with their own spirit children.

The God we have in this universe is the kind of being we are, which is also the same kind of being our Father is.  And when we have children in the future, if we have any, they will also be his children, even though he might prefer to think of them as his grand children.  And whatever else we have will also be what he has, as he shares whatever he shares with us.  

If you're expecting to have stuff that he doesn't also have or own maybe you should keep looking for some other universe where he isn't present and doesn't also own everything there, sharing what he has with others as others share what they have with him.

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8 minutes ago, JAHS said:

When you consider that those who obtain the celestial kingdom in the future are going to be gods, they won't be the god of this universe;

This assumes a God/god must have sole dominion over their own universe, correct?  What if gods simply share dominion over this one?  Since they are of one mind and one heart, having multiple leaders ‘at the top’ wouldn’t be an issue.  While there might be differences in nuances, no one would be making decisions that conflict with others.

Edited by Calm
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17 minutes ago, Calm said:

This assumes a God/god must have sole dominion over their own universe, correct?  What if gods simply share dominion over this one?  Since they are of one mind and one heart, having multiple leaders ‘at the top’ wouldn’t be an issue.  While there might be differences in nuances, no one would be making decisions that conflict with others.

This is true and while it is generally accepted amongst the Saints that Eloiheim includes at least two beings it could include many more.

Edited by The Nehor
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28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This is true and while it is generally accepted amongst the Saints that Eloiheim includes at least two beings it could include many more.

Sometimes it feels to me like most saints are a lot like most scientists who are still looking for and wondering if there are other planets in the universe with people like us living on them.

And I also feel like I am one of the very few people on this planet who would say while knowing it to be true that there is literally no end to the number of planets there already are that are like that

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6 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Sometimes it feels to me like most saints are a lot like most scientists who are still looking for and wondering if there are other planets in the universe with people like us living on them.

And I also feel like I am one of the very few people on this planet who would say while knowing it to be true that there is literally no end to the number of planets there already are that are like that

Okay.

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18 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Is it?  I feel much better now.  Thank you.

I'm emotionally numb right now so I don't trust my judgment but yes, it's okay.

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

This assumes a God/god must have sole dominion over their own universe, correct?  What if gods simply share dominion over this one?  Since they are of one mind and one heart, having multiple leaders ‘at the top’ wouldn’t be an issue.  While there might be differences in nuances, no one would be making decisions that conflict with others.

Yes it does assume that, although they would still be subject to the God that is above them. If a couple on this earth should become exalted and have the ability to create worlds and spirit children the same as our God and his wife did, does that not mean that they are the God of those worlds and spirit children they created, the same as our heavenly parents did? If all this is eternal does that not mean that Our God the Father also has a God that is over him? I answer to and worship our God the Father and not God the Father's God. 

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5 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I answer to and worship our God the Father and not God the Father's God. 

But what you do as a limited individual mortal and what the gods do as an unlimited community may be quite different things. 

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7 minutes ago, Calm said:

But what you do as a limited individual mortal and what the gods do as an unlimited community may be quite different things. 

Right. All we can really do is speculate about all this until we receive further revelation on the subject. 

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55 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Yes it does assume that, although they would still be subject to the God that is above them. If a couple on this earth should become exalted and have the ability to create worlds and spirit children the same as our God and his wife did, does that not mean that they are the God of those worlds and spirit children they created, the same as our heavenly parents did? If all this is eternal does that not mean that Our God the Father also has a God that is over him? I answer to and worship our God the Father and not God the Father's God. 

Yes but HE answers to and worships God HIS Father the same way that we will still continue to worship God OUR Father and our GRAND Father worships HIS Father, etc etc etc forever and ever and ever!!!

So apparently it is possible for all of us to get along with and answer to and worship each of our Fathers the same way Jesus worships his Father while all of us operate the one really big family business together.  And we'll all have consiglieri !!!

Edited by Ahab
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Quote

 

Definition of ancestor worship

 

: the custom of venerating deceased ancestors who are considered still a part of the family and whose spirits are believed to have the power to intervene in the affairs of the living

 

Gee I wonder who came up with that silly idea.
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