Kate Kelly on Dehlin

[cinepro]

I just stumbled across Kate Kelly's Twitter feed, and in between her far-left musings, she's shared her thoughts on Dehlin and the recent brouhaha. Here are some of the more interesting comments for those who are interested.

I wonder what the future of his brand is in the exMo world...

 

Quote

12/7/2020

When someone is abusive they attack & discredit ppl who know— in order to stop anyone from listening to what they have to say. I have seen this many times w John Dehlin, including to the woman who filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against him. He told me she was "crazy."
 

Since he can't make the info not true, he wants people to believe those who have it are liars. Again, this is a common tactic for abusers. For example, Harvey Weinstein went to great lengths to discredit his accusers— that's how he was able to get away w it for so long.

John Dehlin is very, very skilled at creating a victim narrative. He is a master at creating drama & noise to distract from legitimate critiques + making himself the center of attention. In every case (inconceivably), he manages to raise money off of his alleged "victimization."

Several very credible women (incl Kristy Money & myself) have voiced concerns over his behavior & it's catching up with him. He's having an increasingly hard time demonizing & dismissing trustworthy, straightforward people (who otherwise seem like they should be on his side).

I have, of course, been blocked by him. But he often uses women as go-betweens to try & get me to "forgive" or "make amends" with him. This is gross for a whole host of reasons, but mostly bc they try to insinuate I don't care abt the community as a whole bc I won't shut up.

Abusive men try to twist things & say that it's truth-tellers who HURT the community by TELLING the truth... rather than the person *doing* the actual action they are telling folks about. You'd be surprised how effective this tactic is.

His bread & butter is taking advantage over very vulnerable people in a really hard transition (cult exit) in their life. I just wish that men who benefit so incredibly much from vulnerable people in the community didn't ALWAYS get the benefit of the doubt over women.

Gadflys always attract extreme opinions. John Dehlin does get a lot of vitriolic hate-comments & videos. We all do. It's awful & it comes with the territory. But, some of the critiques (particularly from people who once knew & trusted him, like me) ARE worth examining.

Back in May 2017 when I questioned the ethics of Mormon Stories paying women far less than men, John Dehlin went from BFFs to ENEMY-mode in the space of one, single day. It was a complete & total Jekyll & Hyde in less than 24 hours.

In many ways I've put some healthy distance between myself & Mormonism. I save my energy for new projects. John Dehlin doesn't have other projects. His status as an X-Mormon pseudo-celebrity is all he's got. That's why he goes unhinged when that precarious status is threatened.

Many vulnerable people look to him as the one throwing them a life raft in the choppy sea that is leaving-Mormonism. I worry about someone who sucks up so much in the way of $$, attention, free labor (particularly of women) & cannot do ANY self-reflection that's not performative.

He's a flawed dude who routinely spirals into self-loathing fueled tirades on the internet. He's neither saint nor devil. Neither am I. However, he is an expert as monetizing everything, so I have no doubt he'll figure out a way to monetize this most recent pity party.

There are incredibly talented, interesting & amazing podcasts & communities cropping up every day in post-Mormonism. THERE ARE NO PROPHETS. Isn't that the point? It's time we reconsider giving so much attention to one person who has done & has the potential to do so much harm.

It's important for me to speak up bc in the past I was known for speaking up for John Dehlin. People told me about sexist, racist, homophobic stuff he said or really problematic things he did to others & I said, "that's not my experience with him." I regret it.

One woman came to me & told me she was a former employee & filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against John Dehlin w her state’s Human Rights Commission. I went to him directly & he convinced me she was “crazy” & her claim had no merit. I continued to support him. I regret it.

In our culture our brains are already wired by our socialization under patriarchy to reflexively doubt women's claims & require supporting evidence for them beyond what we require for men's claims. Both men & women tend to be more skeptical of women's accounts. I regret this.

 

 

 

[jkwilliams]

11 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I just stumbled across Kate Kelly's Twitter feed, and in between her far-left musings, she's shared her thoughts on Dehlin and the recent brouhaha. Here are some of the more interesting comments for those who are interested.

I wonder what the future of his brand is in the exMo world...
 

As I said, I don't know the man, but what she says is pretty much what I've heard about him from a lot of people who know him. 

[juliann]

No wonder he is trying to keep the violent video that is supposed to get him killed alive on his own website.

Quote

Several very credible women (incl Kristy Money & myself) have voiced concerns over his behavior & it's catching up with him. 

That sounds like something is afoot. 

[juliann]

6 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

As I said, I don't know the man, but what she says is pretty much what I've heard about him from a lot of people who know him. 

Have you heard anything about something about to happen? It sounds like women are organizing. 

[Ipod Touch]

Just now, juliann said:

Have you heard anything about something about to happen? It sounds like women are organizing. 

#JusticeForRosebud

[jkwilliams]

Just now, juliann said:

Have you heard anything about something about to happen? It sounds like women are organizing. 

Nope. Like I said, I really haven't paid much attention to him. Many years ago, some good friends of mine had some very bad experiences with him, so I've steered clear ever since. 

[Nevo]

I'll be interested to see if anything comes of Kate Kelly's dark insinuations about John Dehlin's "behavior." Personally, I have never found "Rosebud" to be very sympathetic or credible. But maybe Kate Kelly knows something I don't. Or maybe it just comes down to personal animus, after all.

I read an interesting article by David French today about celebrity preachers: The Crisis of Christian Celebrity - The French Press (thedispatch.com) I wonder if some of the same dynamics aren't in play among Mormon/ex-Mormon "celebrities" like John Dehlin and Kwaku El, who each get a lot of attention in their respective subcultures. I don't envy either of them.

[juliann]

19 minutes ago, Nevo said:

I'll be interested to see if anything comes of Kate Kelly's dark insinuations about John Dehlin's "behavior." Personally, I have never found "Rosebud" to be very sympathetic or credible. But maybe Kate Kelly knows something I don't. Or maybe it just comes down to personal animus, after all.

 

I found what I read to be very sympathetic. Credible, I don't know. But I did find her flailing refusal to give up not inconsistent with someone who had been abused, reviled and ignored. Like Kelly, I will give the benefit of the doubt to a powerless woman over a male with influence and money every time.  I also have to wonder why Dehlin hasn't directly gone after people who persistently defame him...unless it is true.  He had no trouble calling 911....

[juliann]

1 hour ago, Ipod Touch said:

#JusticeForRosebud

I don't use twitter and I've never done hashtags. How do you pull up a hashtag? Twitter doesn't recognize it. 

[Judd]

I think it depends on how you define “exMo world,” but I don’t think “his brand” suffers much. There have already been many of these same complaints among many other former members, in particular the more progressive members. But John Dehlin appeals to the “everyman.” He’s an average, boring guy. Kind of like the average, boring members who are just trying to go about their life and survive. They’re not academics, but also don’t consider themselves niave, but have spent a vast majority of time and money within the church and don’t know a lot of its history or possible controversial issues. Not too dissimilar to the fact that many men can enjoy watching sports, know the big names, the successful teams, and spend a decent amount of time engaged in sports viewership, but they may know only know this fairly superficially — they have no clue about any advanced statistics, they are clueless about the collective bargaining agreement rules that prohibit all of their fantasy trades, they know nearly nothing about the actual business side of this, or scouting side, but they think it’s amazing when LeBron drops 40. Then people get broadsided with things they never knew or never considered, and they research more than they had previously, but still only superficially, and the relative difference to them feels extreme, so they reach the peak of the dunning-kruger curve. People will often identify with Dehlin as they may see themselves in his journey. 

Maybe a more apt analogy is wokeness. People may feel “woke” by not being republican and supporting the DNC establishment. Many progressives would state that this is just RNC-lite, but it’s comfortable being in touch with the mainstream under the cloak of social justice. John Dehlin will always occupy this part of post-Mormonism, and there are many more people wanting that comfort of inclusion with mainstream society. 

[Ipod Touch]

43 minutes ago, juliann said:

I don't use twitter and I've never done hashtags. How do you pull up a hashtag? Twitter doesn't recognize it. 

Wow.  You really are a boomer.    JK.  I was just making a silly joke.  But perhaps Rosebud's moment will come.

[juliann]

6 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

Wow.  You really are a boomer.    JK.  I was just making a silly joke.  But perhaps Rosebud's moment will come.

I am a proud Boomer! We just pay people to do our tech stuff. 😛

[rongo]

4 hours ago, juliann said:

I am a proud Boomer! We just pay people to do our tech stuff. 😛

I am a proud honorary Boomer. Millennial/Gen X don't care that I was born in 1975; to them, Boomers are literally anyone over 30. 

My 5th hour class even went out and made me a plaque last year. We had lots of running inside jokes about boomers and snowflake millennials. 

[OGHoosier]

6 hours ago, Nevo said:

I'll be interested to see if anything comes of Kate Kelly's dark insinuations about John Dehlin's "behavior." Personally, I have never found "Rosebud" to be very sympathetic or credible. But maybe Kate Kelly knows something I don't. Or maybe it just comes down to personal animus, after all.

I read an interesting article by David French today about celebrity preachers: The Crisis of Christian Celebrity - The French Press (thedispatch.com) I wonder if some of the same dynamics aren't in play among Mormon/ex-Mormon "celebrities" like John Dehlin and Kwaku El, who each get a lot of attention in their respective subcultures. I don't envy either of them.

You read the Dispatch too? I know this strays close to politics...but still, good taste. 

[Calm]

1 minute ago, OGHoosier said:

You read the Dispatch too? I know this strays close to politics...but still, good taste. 

Missed your posting. 

[OGHoosier]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Missed your posting. 

I took a break to focus on some other things, but I think I'll pop back in for a bit. 

[Robert J Anderson]

I don't think Rosebud is very credible.  She likes to build up the story about Dehlin but never delivers.  Hers is a tale of sexual non-occurrence.

Dehlin may be a media hound and may be exaggerating Kwaku's supposed threat, but Rosebud's story is suspect in my opinion.

[juliann]

6 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said:

I don't think Rosebud is very credible.  She likes to build up the story about Dehlin but never delivers.  Hers is a tale of sexual non-occurrence.

Dehlin may be a media hound and may be exaggerating Kwaku's supposed threat, but Rosebud's story is suspect in my opinion.

Sexual harrassment is not a "non-occurrence." It is typical to believe the man rather than the woman, unfortunately.  

[juliann]

"People told me about sexist, racist, homophobic stuff he said or really problematic things he did to others & I said, "that's not my experience with him." I regret it."

View the second video:  *edit: incorrect link. See Seeking Understanding's link below. 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by juliann

[SeekingUnderstanding]

57 minutes ago, juliann said:

"People told me about sexist, racist, homophobic stuff he said or really problematic things he did to others & I said, "that's not my experience with him." I regret it."

View the second video: 

 

I think you want this one: 

 

[Ipod Touch]

Quote

Personally, I have never found "Rosebud" to be very sympathetic or credible.

Ultimately it is her story to tell and she alone decides what is and isn't shared.

But at the very least, we can reasonably conclude that John Dehlin mistreated her. Certainly professionally (remember Circling the Wagons? yeah, me neither), and probably romantically.

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Ipod Touch

[OGHoosier]

1 hour ago, Ipod Touch said:

Ultimately it is her story to tell and she alone decides what is and isn't shared.

But at the very least, we can reasonably conclude that John Dehlin mistreated her. Certainly professionally (remember Circling the Wagons? yeah, me neither), and probably romantically.

 

I never said that. You're looking for @Robert J Anderson.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

I never said that. You're looking for @Robert J Anderson.

If you use a first person’s post where they quoted a second person, your post will show the second person’s words as a quote from the first person. It is a common mistake that can really confuse things in a long thread. 
 

And it was Nevo who said it, I believe.  

Edited December 9, 2020 by Calm

[Nevo]

14 minutes ago, Calm said:

And it was Nevo who said it, I believe.  

Yes, I did. And I'm happy to own it.

[Scott Lloyd]

On 12/7/2020 at 2:30 PM, cinepro said:

I just stumbled across Kate Kelly's Twitter feed, and in between her far-left musings, she's shared her thoughts on Dehlin and the recent brouhaha. Here are some of the more interesting comments for those who are interested.

I wonder what the future of his brand is in the exMo world...

 

 

I guess the adage that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” is limited in scope. 
 

From my distant observation, it occurs to me that Kelly sooner or later ends up alienating everyone with whom she has a relationship, be it by her choice or someone else’s.