School during Covid

[rongo]

For those who have K-12 or college students, how has school been?

I have a son on a mission (Norway; they see wearing masks if you're not sick as weird, so in many ways, he's been less-restricted than most of the U.S.), a daughter in college (Northern Arizona University. She loved her first semester, but attendance is down to 16,000 from 24,000. I think the school is facing a $100 million deficit, and had to let 100 professors go and adjust offerings. The student wards have been a lot of fun for her), and two in high school.

We are really fortunate. I didn't renew my contract with the district I was at in March (for a number of reasons, but in a nutshell, the new superintendent is a disaster and is running the district into the ground), but I could never have foreseen all of the Covid impact. As it happens, I moved to one of only two systems in Arizona that is committed to in person school, and we have been in person since day one, with no shutdowns (1900 in our high school, 13,000 students in 10 schools). It's also in an area that very much supports normalcy (Queen Creek, Arizona), compared to where I live, where the community is split 50/50 and very polarized about in-person only or online only (the district has tried to divide the baby by yo-yoing back and forth from shutdown to in-person every couple of weeks when there are some positive tests. Half of the students K-12 are online the entire year, anyway, so the schools are at half capacity as it is). It has been a fantastic first semester for me and our boys and their friend. 

My sister in Chicago is a kindergarten teacher, and she says that online kindergarten is hell on earth (for the teacher and the students). She says most of her time is spent playing whack-a-mole getting kids to mute their mikes. 

What has your school experience been like?

[The Nehor]

I don’t have kids but I have been going over to my brother’s house to work with my niece while their mom works with my nephew. I think it is working well but kids who do not have available adults are probably struggling more.

[longview]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

As it happens, I moved to one of only two systems in Arizona that is committed to in person school, and we have been in person since day one, with no shutdowns (1900 in our high school, 13,000 students in 10 schools). It's also in an area that very much supports normalcy (Queen Creek, Arizona), compared to where I live, where the community is split 50/50 and very polarized about in-person only or online only (the district has tried to divide the baby by yo-yoing back and forth from shutdown to in-person every couple of weeks when there are some positive tests.

Hopefully things will calm down in a few months as we learn more about the COVID vectors.

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, longview said:

Hopefully things will calm down in a few months as we learn more about the COVID vectors.

Tighten that thing up so it actually has a bit of a seal and then drive around.

Also, you do know that a virus is much larger than most pollutants. Covid is roughly 100 nanometers in size. A polluting molecule is about a third of a nanometer across. This is like saying a narrow pipe won’t keep a human from crawling through it because you can roll a marble through it. It is nonsensical.

Edited December 5, 2020 by The Nehor

[katherine the great]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Tighten that thing up so it actually has a bit of a seal and then drive around.

😂

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, longview said:

Hopefully things will calm down in a few months as we learn more about the COVID vectors.

 

59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Tighten that thing up so it actually has a bit of a seal and then drive around. ,,,

Nice.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Tighten that thing up so it actually has a bit of a seal and then drive around.

Even better. Tighten it up so it's sealed, and put a pair of glasses near the seam. See if they fog up . . .  

[rongo]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I don’t have kids but I have been going over to my brother’s house to work with my niece while their mom works with my nephew. I think it is working well but kids who do not have available adults are probably struggling more.

It's definitely better when there is help and support at home or with extended family. I still don't think even the very best of online programs and teachers hold a candle to being in class in-person. Even shy introverts benefit from being around other kids, and the instruction is just different (better) in person. I think it's doubly so with foreign language, like I teach. I have heard anecdotally that some autistic kids are thriving in the full online environment. 

When our two districts were the only two in the state to open in person, both were flooded with transfers from other districts (Arizona is open enrollment, so anyone can go to any school). We instantly got 30 kids in group homes and foster families, and I think they definitely are better off with other kids. An administrator told me this after I shared that a new student had asked me if she could call her mom. When I said yes, she asked if I could look up the number. I was surprised that 15 or so CPS case workers and social workers were listed, and she pointed to the second to last one and said, "That's her." She lives in a group home. I have personally met four others in group homes. 

Queen Creek Unified and the ALA system (my district) faced withering pressure and criticism, but the semester has gone off without any massive outbreaks of sickness. Our governor has lacked leadership through this, but one think I'm grateful for is that he allowed schools and communities who wanted to open to do so, even if the county and state "metrics" were against it (in Arizona, the "metrics" are guidance only, and are non-binding). 

[bluebell]

In Davis County Utah we started the school year with a hybrid system (in school two days a week and online three) and it was horrible.  They were going to try to do it through Christmas and the backlash, and kids falling through the cracks, was too much.  They went to four days a week for primary schools at the end of September and four days a week for secondary in November. 

Their system is that if a school reaches 15 active cases of COVID then it goes online for 2 weeks.  So far all the local high schools have been locked down at least once but they are all open at the moment. None of the junior highs and none of the elementary schools have had to lock down.  The most my kids elementary school has had was 5 cases at once.  I think we are down to zero cases at the school for the moment (at least, it's been a long time since I got a letter about one).    

I have 2 kids in elementary and the 4 day a week has been fine.  There is hope we will go back to five days after Christmas break and that will be even better.  My high schooler is in a public charter through Weber State (the school is located on the Weber state campus) and they've had a modified hybrid since the beginning and it's working for them.  They have been the only high school in the area not to have to lock down so far and they have no COVID cases. 

The kids have 8 classes, 6 are in person and 2 online.  They school fixed it so that this means that on two days a week they go full time and two days a week they are done at noon.  This keeps the number of kids on campus at any given time down so distancing is easier.  They try to make the online classes the ones that translate easiest or would need less hands on help from a teacher.  My son's online classes are Drivers Ed and ACT Prep (a mandatory class for all Sophomores, who are required to take the ACTS their sophomore year).  Fridays are an open day so no classes (sometimes tests at the testing center) but the kids with Fs have to go in to see their teachers that day to get help or get caught up.  It's working really well so I don't think they'll change it this year. 

[Jane_Doe]

4 hours ago, rongo said:

 

What has your school experience been like?

We've had full-in-person school for the 1st grader.  It's different: masks, everything distant, no group work, changes to schedule, they're scrambling for subs, etc.  But still a huge blessing.  Kids adapt.  She loves school, it gives her an outlet, and things are generally really good.  The transmission / infection rate for those which are in the schools is actually much lower than the general community here (the general community is not very cautious).   

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

In Davis County Utah we started the school year with a hybrid system (in school two days a week and online three) and it was horrible.  They were going to try to do it through Christmas and the backlash, and kids falling through the cracks, was too much.  They went to four days a week for primary schools at the end of September and four days a week for secondary in November. 

Their system is that if a school reaches 15 active cases of COVID then it goes online for 2 weeks.  So far all the local high schools have been locked down at least once but they are all open at the moment. None of the junior highs and none of the elementary schools have had to lock down.  The most my kids elementary school has had was 5 cases at once.  I think we are down to zero cases at the school for the moment (at least, it's been a long time since I got a letter about one).    

I have 2 kids in elementary and the 4 day a week has been fine.  There is hope we will go back to five days after Christmas break and that will be even better.  My high schooler is in a public charter through Weber State (the school is located on the Weber state campus) and they've had a modified hybrid since the beginning and it's working for them.  They have been the only high school in the area not to have to lock down so far and they have no COVID cases. 

The kids have 8 classes, 6 are in person and 2 online.  They school fixed it so that this means that on two days a week they go full time and two days a week they are done at noon.  This keeps the number of kids on campus at any given time down so distancing is easier.  They try to make the online classes the ones that translate easiest or would need less hands on help from a teacher.  My son's online classes are Drivers Ed and ACT Prep (a mandatory class for all Sophomores, who are required to take the ACTS their sophomore year).  Fridays are an open day so no classes (sometimes tests at the testing center) but the kids with Fs have to go in to see their teachers that day to get help or get caught up.  It's working really well so I don't think they'll change it this year. 

That sounds a lot better than most. Mandatory ACT the sophomore year? Before most have had pre-calc or beyond? Do they expect them to also take it junior year as well?

I agree about hybrid. A lot of local families clamored for it, but it's a mess for the kids and for the teachers. While I detest online, it's better to be full online than hybrid, imo. 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

That sounds a lot better than most. Mandatory ACT the sophomore year? Before most have had pre-calc or beyond? Do they expect them to also take it junior year as well?

I agree about hybrid. A lot of local families clamored for it, but it's a mess for the kids and for the teachers. While I detest online, it's better to be full online than hybrid, imo. 

Most kids that take the ACT never do pre-calc or beyond so they probably don't think that makes that much of a difference. 

They expect the kids to take it as multiple times but they only require the one.  It's a STEM school that allows kids to graduate high school with an associates from Weber (for free) but the kids have to maintain a 3.25 grade point average and have an ACT score of at least 21 to apply for early college.  Sophomores aren't eligible for early college yet (they can still do concurrent enrollment of course) which is why they take that year to set them up to do well on the ACT. 

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Most kids that take the ACT never do pre-calc or beyond so they probably don't think that makes that much of a difference. 

They expect the kids to take it as multiple times but they only require the one.  It's a STEM school that allows kids to graduate high school with an associates from Weber (for free) but the kids have to maintain a 3.25 grade point average and have an ACT score of at least 21 to apply for early college.  Sophomores aren't eligible for early college yet (they can still do concurrent enrollment of course) which is why they take that year to set them up to do well on the ACT. 

It makes a huge difference! Testers get higher composites for high math than for high English scores. What "separates the men from the boys," figuratively, on the SAT/ACT is how high they score in math. Many kids do very well on the English portions, but not as well in math, and it really hurts them when it comes to competitive scholarships. Since there is higher math on it, students who have had pre-calc or calculus have a huge advantage. The way your school is doing it, though, is like kids taking the PSAT in 10th (practice) and in 11th (when it counts for National Merit scholarships). 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

It makes a huge difference! Testers get higher composites for high math than for high English scores. What "separates the men from the boys," figuratively, on the SAT/ACT is how high they score in math. Many kids do very well on the English portions, but not as well in math, and it really hurts them when it comes to competitive scholarships. Since there is higher math on it, students who have had pre-calc or calculus have a huge advantage. The way your school is doing it, though, is like kids taking the PSAT in 10th (practice) and in 11th (when it counts for National Merit scholarships). 

I'm sure you are right, but their kids routinely test in the 30s.  That's all I know. 

My oldest got a 28 which is nothing to brag about, but ironically he was ahead in math so was already in Calculus at the time.   

[rongo]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm sure you are right, but their kids routinely test in the 30s.  That's all I know. 

My oldest got a 28 which is nothing to brag about, but ironically he was ahead in math so was already in Calculus at the time.   

A 28 is very good. Our kids' schools did a horrific job teaching math, so their composites suffered. Our daughter got a 28 as well, and our eldest had a 31 (both had 34s on the English portion. On the other hand, I've known students with relatively low English scores but super high math scores who got composites of 34. I think it's skewed much more heavily to favor kids good in STEM.

Both of our college students so far have gotten full-rides from state schools, but BYU only offered half-tuition (and nothing towards housing, meals, or books/fees). 

Edited December 5, 2020 by rongo

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, rongo said:

A 28 is very good. Our kids' schools did a horrific job teaching math, so their composites suffered. Our daughter got a 28 as well, and our eldest had a 31 (both had 34s on the English portion. On the other hand, I've known students with relatively low English scores but super high math scores who got composites of 34. I think it's skewed much more heavily to favor kids good in STEM.

Both of our college students so far have gotten full-rides from state schools, but BYU only offered half-tuition (and nothing towards housing, meals, or books/fees). 

I hear that.  I got a 27, with a 34 in the english part and a 28 in the science, but math was definitely my lowest section.  But I also didn't go beyond Algebra 2 in math in high school (and now have a degree in history because I was told there would be no math, as the joke goes) so I'm sure that didn't help me any.   

I despise math.    

[longview]

22 hours ago, The Nehor said:

22 hours ago, longview said:

Hopefully things will calm down in a few months as we learn more about the COVID vectors.

Expand  Expand  

Tighten that thing up so it actually has a bit of a seal and then drive around.

Also, you do know that a virus is much larger than most pollutants. Covid is roughly 100 nanometers in size. A polluting molecule is about a third of a nanometer across. This is like saying a narrow pipe won’t keep a human from crawling through it because you can roll a marble through it. It is nonsensical.

Hello Sheldon Cooper, did you miss the sarcasm?

Obviously the "seal" around the nose and mouth is not that tight.  Plenty of room for particles of ANY size and for air to circulate.  And no protection for the eyes.

All the discussions about forcing children to undergo "lockdown procedures" is very sickening.  Children as a group have the lowest rate of "sickness" when it comes to COVID.  We do more harm to people when hysteria is "carefully" stoked.

[The Nehor]

22 minutes ago, longview said:

Hello Sheldon Cooper, did you miss the sarcasm?

I don’t believe you.

23 minutes ago, longview said:

Obviously the "seal" around the nose and mouth is not that tight.  Plenty of room for particles of ANY size and for air to circulate.  And no protection for the eyes.

All the discussions about forcing children to undergo "lockdown procedures" is very sickening.  Children as a group have the lowest rate of "sickness" when it comes to COVID.  We do more harm to people when hysteria is "carefully" stoked.

Thanks for confirming my hypothesis.

[bsjkki]

It is strange but my high school junior seems to be happier with all online versus hybrid. Overall, school is awful. My district has no in person learning across all ages right now except for the kids in charter schools. So, the public neighborhood school kids are disadvantaged. I wonder, moving forward, if this will hurt public school enrollment. Parents are moving kids out and going private/charter school.

My college student is taking a semester off. This year has been horrible for her. Too isolated. She does not like online classes and misses the structure in person classes give to her schedule.

[Traela]

My district is another that is committed to in-person learning for all who want it.  Middle school and high school attend in-person four days a week, with Mondays online.  Most teachers just give assignments instead of a formal class that day.  Elementary are off every other Monday.  We have an online school that predates the pandemic.  The families that don’t want in person school can enroll there, or the elementary kids can get a packet of assignments each week.  The main request is that a family stick with an option for an entire trimester.

So far, contact tracing and quarantine for those potentially exposed have kept things under control.  The superintendent has said that we won’t close as long as we can keep the necessary staff.

 

[JAHS]

In California in our area all the kids have notebooks and have zoom classes every day with their teacher for a few hours. Nothing is in person.

[Bob Crockett]

It is yet another assault upon the poor.  Another opportunity for government employees to do less and get paid.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

It is yet another assault upon the poor.  Another opportunity for government employees to do less and get paid.

My sister, the government employee, is spending more hours working now rather than less.  Having to create teaching plans from scrap; figure out how to adapt to online and then finding and figuring out visual aids, etc; follow up with all the parents, etc.  She is almost 65 and worried about infecting someone else much more than herself, so she is grateful that worry is gone for now.  But the cost is she is working longer hours for 7 days a week. 

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

It is yet another assault upon the poor.  Another opportunity for government employees to do less and get paid.

Ummmm.......no.

[Bob Crockett]

Just now, Calm said:

My sister, the government employee, is spending more hours working now rather than less.  Having to create teaching plans from scrap; figure out how to adapt to online and then finding and figuring out visual aids, etc; follow up with all the parents, etc.  She is almost 65 and worried about infecting someone else much more than herself, so she is grateful that worry is gone for now.  But the cost is she is working longer hours for 7 days a week. 

I suppose there ought to be studies about this rather than your anecodotal evidence.  But the reality I see is that the single mom supporting her four children is just unable to keep up with their teaching.  When I make inquiries to my grandchildren and the children of friends, they confirm that some of the kids are simply missing.  The teachers may be working hard but the administration behind them is not.  Poor kids not getting an education?   Well, great, less work to do.  Atrocious.  

The administration ought to be using monitors to ensure school attendance, and if the kids are not there, the admins ought to be using the traditional police powers to enforce laws against truancy.  And if the mom is unable to be in the home to monitor her kids' online attendance, there ought to alternatives such as personal proctors.  But, no, there is no effort to do this.   None.  If we are going to spend taxpayer money to provide a free education, then it must be provided to all.