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Elder Holland's new video: "My Testimony"


Calm

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If you are not enjoying (or even if you are) FairMormon's new This Show videos (title 'change' is my personal solution to that issue, feel free to use :) ), perhaps this will help:

 

This is such a powerful answer to those who claim the apostles are closet doubters or know it is all a scam.

 

Edited by Calm
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11 hours ago, Calm said:

If you are not enjoying (or even if you are) FairMormon's new This Show videos (title 'change' is my personal solution to that issue, feel free to use :) ), perhaps this will help:

 

This is such a powerful answer to those who claim the apostles are closet doubters or know it is all a scam.

 

deleted my post as the context of my reply was wrong.

Edited by telnetd
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11 hours ago, Calm said:

If you are not enjoying (or even if you are) FairMormon's new This Show videos (title 'change' is my personal solution to that issue, feel free to use :) ), perhaps this will help:

 

This is such a powerful answer to those who claim the apostles are closet doubters or know it is all a scam.

 

That was wonderful.  Thanks so much for sharing it.

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11 hours ago, Calm said:

If you are not enjoying (or even if you are) FairMormon's new This Show videos (title 'change' is my personal solution to that issue, feel free to use :) ), perhaps this will help:

 

This is such a powerful answer to those who claim the apostles are closet doubters or know it is all a scam.

 

I think I've seen a person who two claiming something along the lines of "they must know it's all a scam" in exasperation--in a "how can they possibly not know" kind of way.   If there is no God, for instance, then it doesn't really matter much if the apostles know its a scam or not, I suppose.  As per his question--how can he show Jesus is real and is the LORD?  If the story and accounts in the NT about Jesus are true, then Jesus spit on a blind guy and heeled the blindness...He yelped out at a dead man and raised him from the dead.  If we are to believe in this Jesus, maybe Holland needs to start doing Jesus-y things.  If not, he's merely posturing, it seems to me.  He mentioned the pandemic and said God can heal people suffering from the pandemic.  Maybe if God did do such a thing, there'd be reason to accept his sincere hopes and teachings.  

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4 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I think I've seen a person who two claiming something along the lines of "they must know it's all a scam" in exasperation--in a "how can they possibly not know" kind of way.  

Grant Palmer was much more explicit in his claims of disbelief of the apostles and there have been many I have seen or heard repeating his claims as if demonstrated facts. 

Edited by Calm
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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Grant Palmer was much more explicit in his claims of disbelief of the apostles and there have been many I have seen or heard repeating his claims as if demonstrated facts. 

I think he's passed.  As I recall he claimed to know of a high level church authority who did not believe and that this one claimed others were in a similar boat--not really believing but were supported leaders.  But, in terms of claiming that the apostles themselves weren't really believers, I think most have simply offered exasperated comments that they couldn't possibly not really know.  With that said, I grant there is likely some critic out there who maintains that none of them believe it.  

From what I did see, those dirty word Fairmormon videos exploited the strawman tactics.  This kind of feels similar.  No one really thinks Holland doesn't believe it.  I think most critics would think he believes, but is wrong in his assumptions.  

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I think Palmer was the one who claimed he talked to a currently serving Seventy who was  an unbeliever or something. He had made several comments as to the identity of this General Authority but nothing ultimately came of it. On another note my Mom LOVES Elder Holland, they were born within a couple of months of each other and she is over the moon that she could have theoretically dated him in High School

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25 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I think Palmer was the one who claimed he talked to a currently serving Seventy who was  an unbeliever or something. He had made several comments as to the identity of this General Authority but nothing ultimately came of it. On another note my Mom LOVES Elder Holland, they were born within a couple of months of each other and she is over the moon that she could have theoretically dated him in High School

The claims that Palmer made were impossible (there were only 3 possibilities even if one assumed he made a mistake in his claims in terms of timing of their calling and two would not have been available to meet with him monthly as they didn’t live in the US, can’t remember the problem with the third).  
 

John Dehlin made a claim that Palmer told him who it was after both Palmer and the former Seventy were dead, the former Seventy just a few weeks prior iirc. It was rather despicable imo to do that to a family in mourning so not sharing the name. 

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56 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

With that said, I grant there is likely some critic out there who maintains that none of them believe it.  

How much time do you spend on Reddit? Or at ex Mormon.org?  I don’t spend much, but have seen quite a few.  Then there are those who write hate mail to FM (I am not using the term lightly here).

The claim Palmer made that each apostle gets a million dollars when he gets called probably makes it easier to believe for those who are so inclined, the idea being they feel obligated and justify it by believing the Church is good for people even if a fraud. 
 

Do a search on Grant Palmer and general authority if you still think it unlikely there are very many critics who believe the apostles know the Church is a fraud. 

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12 hours ago, Calm said:

If you are not enjoying (or even if you are) FairMormon's new This Show videos (title 'change' is my personal solution to that issue, feel free to use :) ), perhaps this will help:

 

This is such a powerful answer to those who claim the apostles are closet doubters or know it is all a scam.

 

Yes it is a powerful answer but many "unbelievers" will just keep on "unbelieving" even after they receive a powerful testimony of truth, even one so powerful that the Holy Ghost bears witness to the truth of the testimony.

The term "past feeling" actually refers to a very powerful feeling.  

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I appreciate the comment made by Elder Holland when he tells of the missionary, after getting asked if he would give his life for the church, that he gives every day of his life to the church because he believes it is true. This has always impressed me about the apostles/prophets. How big of a burden it would be to always have to be "on". Meaning, the examples they have to be to everyone. I'm sure that would be so difficult. 

 

Edited by Tacenda
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1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I appreciate the comment made by Elder Holland when he tells of the missionary after getting asked if he would give his life for the church that he gives every day of his life to the church because he believe's it is true. This has always impressed me with the apostles/prophets. How big of a burden it could be to always have to be "on". Meaning, the examples they have to be to everyone. I'm sure that would be so difficult. 

 

No, i don't think so.  Being "on" would not be the problem because that is the way they prefer to be, just as I always prefer to be "on".  The problem for me would be all of the traveling and not staying in one place for very long at a time before traveling again.  And that would be a problem for me because my favorite place to be is at home or my local home area, traveling only rarely before coming back home again soon.

But I suppose some of them may actually enjoy all of that traveling, with very little time in their own home area.

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36 minutes ago, Calm said:

How much time do you spend on Reddit? Or at ex Mormon.org?  I don’t spend much, but have seen quite a few.  Then there are those who write hate mail to FM (I am not using the term lightly here).

The claim Palmer made that each apostle gets a million dollars when he gets called probably makes it easier to believe for those who are so inclined, the idea being they feel obligated and justify it by believing the Church is good for people even if a fraud. 
 

Do a search on Grant Palmer and general authority if you still think it unlikely there are very many critics who believe the apostles know the Church is a fraud. 

I pointed out my impression.  I don't care to support your claims or concerns.  If there are critics who think the apostles don't sincerely believe...fine by me.  But again, in my experience, from what I've seen, most who say something about this stuff seem far more exasperated that the leaders actually believe the church and its teachings--in a "how could they believe this" kind of way.

Thanks for sharing the video.  Its certainly a much nicer approach than the Fairmormon videos people have been talking about.  

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23 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

don't care to support your claims or concerns.

You were the one implying I was wrong. I am not asking you to support my claims, but to support your own. 

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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

You were the one implying I was wrong. I am not asking you to support my claims, but to support your own. 

What claim would you like me to support? I thought I suggested in my experience I've seen a few people say something along the lines of "how can they believe this" type of thing and followed by saying its certainly possible someone out there is claiming the apostles don't believe.  I meant that as less a challenge and more of a commentary on the purpose of this thread.  

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28 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

What claim would you like me to support? 

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No one really thinks Holland doesn't believe it

 

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38 minutes ago, Calm said:

No one really thinks Holland doesn't believe it

I followed that with "I think most critics would think he believes, but is wrong in his assumptions. "

I leave room for the possibility that someone out there thinks he doesn't really believe--"most" leaves that possibility on the table.  All I mean to point out is I haven't seen it.  

Again my impression--critics who say something akin to apostles don't really believe, are stating it in exasperation, as in "I can't really believe this kind of thing"...  I certainly may be wrong.  

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And as long as you refuse to make the effort to be informed about what is actually being said, you can keep making the same claim. 

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

And as long as you refuse to make the effort to be informed about what is actually being said, you can keep making the same claim. 

Who has actually said Holland doesn't really believe?  The more I think about it the more I wonder what inspired this video.  Does he think people don't find him sincere?  Has he been questioned?  If not this feels a little insecure.  

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2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Who has actually said Holland doesn't really believe?  The more I think about it the more I wonder what inspired this video.  Does he think people don't find him sincere?  Has he been questioned?  If not this feels a little insecure.  

Questioned?  Sure, I'm sure some people have questioned him.  Probably a lot of people like you who have said something like:  So you really believe this stuff do you?!?  or  How do you know that what you believe is true?!?

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54 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Who has actually said Holland doesn't really believe?  The more I think about it the more I wonder what inspired this video.  Does he think people don't find him sincere?  Has he been questioned?  If not this feels a little insecure.  

I have already told you how to find it. I am not going to link to anti stuff here. 

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11 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have already told you how to find it. I am not going to link to anti stuff here. 

Lol.  Fun game calm.  As I said I'm not interested to verify your claims.  As I said I wouldn't doubt if someone out there is saying apostles don't believe.  You have me curious though, I wonder if Holland is reading these disreputable sites.  Why might he be concerned whether people think he genuine in his belief?  

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3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Lol.  Fun game calm.  As I said I'm not interested to verify your claims.  As I said I wouldn't doubt if someone out there is saying apostles don't believe.  You have me curious though, I wonder if Holland is reading these disreputable sites.  Why might he be concerned whether people think he genuine in his belief?  

The world in general doesn't believe who the apostles testify lives but it is their job/assignment from the Lord to testify to the world that he lives.  Not just once in their lives and then they have done their job but often, and again and again.

Seems kind of pointless to me since usually most people in the world still won't believe them regardless of how many times the apostles tell them but I dunno, maybe it does eventually dawn on some people that, yeah, Jesus Christ really lives.

It is for their own good to believe in him and learn how he can bless those who are faithful to him.

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Oh please. You (stem) think faithful members aren’t going to share their concerns with him about what rumors their doubting family members are listening to?

Edited by Calm
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