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Does anyone else have concerns about the current state of the church?


LDS Watchman

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7 hours ago, Raingirl said:

Whose Sabbath would that be? And would it not then end on Sunday night, thus making it inclusive of Sunday during the day?

If you are thinking of the Jewish Sabbath, that would begin at sundown on Friday and end at sundown on Saturday. 

Shhhh!  Don't confuse us with the facts, Raingirl! ;)

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18 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Shhhh!  Don't confuse us with the facts, Raingirl! ;)

It's a fact, in the Bible, just because the Gentiles came in and changed it, not my problem. ;)

Did God rest on Saturday or Sunday?
According to the Book of Exodus, the Sabbath is a day of rest on the seventh day, commanded by God to be kept as a holy day of rest, as God rested from creation. The practice of observing the Sabbath (Shabbat) originates in the biblical commandment "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".
 
What day is technically the Sabbath?
The Jewish Sabbath (from Hebrew shavat, “to rest”) is observed throughout the year on the seventh day of the week—Saturday. According to biblical tradition, it commemorates the original seventh day on which God rested after completing the creation.
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@Tacenda

With all due respect to your anonymous Internet source, Tacenda, I think Raingirl knows what she's talking about, and has special reason to know.  So, if you don't mind, I'll take the word of the anonymous source with the pseudonym over the unsigned anonymous source from ... somewhere ... on the Internet.  ("I read it on the Internet!  It must be true!") ;)

Edited by Kenngo1969
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5 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

@Tacenda

With all due respect to your anonymous Internet source, Tacenda, I think Raingirl knows what she's talking about, and has special reason to know.  So, if you don't mind, I'll take the word of the anonymous source with the pseudonym over the unsigned anonymous source from ... somewhere ... on the Internet.  ("I read it on the Internet!  It must be true!") ;)

The internet is a great source to look up Bible scriptures. I've no problem with having it on Sunday, just wanted to help LDS Watchman, be a little less latter day saint orthodox because I was hoping his son could pursue what he wanted in life. There are plenty of LDS professional football players that have played on Sunday. 

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10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

It's a fact, in the Bible, just because the Gentiles came in and changed it, not my problem. ;)

Did God rest on Saturday or Sunday?
According to the Book of Exodus, the Sabbath is a day of rest on the seventh day, commanded by God to be kept as a holy day of rest, as God rested from creation. The practice of observing the Sabbath (Shabbat) originates in the biblical commandment "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".
 
What day is technically the Sabbath?
The Jewish Sabbath (from Hebrew shavat, “to rest”) is observed throughout the year on the seventh day of the week—Saturday. According to biblical tradition, it commemorates the original seventh day on which God rested after completing the creation.

As a former Orthodox Jew, I know what I am talking about. 
 

Your interpretation is wrong. Is that deliberate or are you having reading comprehension issues. 
 

A day on the Jewish calendar is marked Sundown to Sundown. The Jewish Sabbath therefore begins at sundown on Friday. Candles are lit, and a blessing is said (both usually done by women) at a certain time to officially usher in the Sabbath.  I did this thousands upon thousands of times. 
 

The Sabbath then continues until sundown Saturday night. There is another ritual -Havdalah - which also involves a candle (and wine and spices) - that marks the end of the Sabbath. 
 

Anyone who reads your posts knows that like to ignore facts in favor of whatever agenda you’re pursuing. 
 

I invite you to call any rabbi in your community. They will be happy to explain the Jewish Sabbath to you.  I’d suggest an Orthodox rabbi.  They would likely have the patience necessary to dumb this down for you. 
 

And, yes, “the Gentiles changed it”, but your interpretation is woefully wrong. 

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11 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

As a former Orthodox Jew, I know what I am talking about. 
 

Your interpretation is wrong. Is that deliberate or are you having reading comprehension issues. 
 

A day on the Jewish calendar is marked Sundown to Sundown. The Jewish Sabbath therefore begins at sundown on Friday. Candles are lit, and a blessing is said (both usually done by women) at a certain time to officially usher in the Sabbath.  I did this thousands upon thousands of times. 
 

The Sabbath then continues until sundown Saturday night. There is another ritual -Havdalah - which also involves a candle (and wine and spices) - that marks the end of the Sabbath. 

I keep reading your post to me, and I'm flabbergasted because I was agreeing with your Rabbi. 
 

Anyone who reads your posts knows that like to ignore facts in favor of whatever agenda you’re pursuing. 
 

I invite you to call any rabbi in your community. They will be happy to explain the Jewish Sabbath to you.  I’d suggest an Orthodox rabbi.  They would likely have the patience necessary to dumb this down for you. 
 

And, yes, “the Gentiles changed it”, but your interpretation is woefully wrong. 

So God was wrong? I don't have enough posts to argue. I think it can be both. Or are Jewish wrong? Why is it only on Sunday? I don't appreciate rudeness either, and don't want to spend time with you much, but I will if I can keep editing and not waste my posts.

The posts I've commented to Ken, were exactly what you say here. And this is something I've studied by way of listening to those that argue that it is technically on Saturday. You peg me wrong. 

I thought I was agreeing with the Rabbi. 

Edited by Tacenda
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6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The internet is a great source to look up Bible scriptures. I've no problem with having it on Sunday, just wanted to help LDS Watchman, be a little less latter day saint orthodox because I was hoping his son could pursue what he wanted in life. There are plenty of LDS professional football players that have played on Sunday. 

You don’t help anyone when you give false information. 
 

But it’s no surprise that you give false information about Judaism, as you have a long history of giving false information about the church. 

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I did not insinuate you are a racist. I said it outright

Well if you think I'm a "racist" then I guess its safe to say that you believe all the prophets of God from the days of Adam to 1978 were "racists," too. So I guess I'll take that as a compliment that you accuse me of being a "racist" for believing what they said. 


11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

(Matthew 5)

 

 

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4 hours ago, Raingirl said:

As a former Orthodox Jew, I know what I am talking about. 
 

Your interpretation is wrong. Is that deliberate or are you having reading comprehension issues. 
 

A day on the Jewish calendar is marked Sundown to Sundown. The Jewish Sabbath therefore begins at sundown on Friday. Candles are lit, and a blessing is said (both usually done by women) at a certain time to officially usher in the Sabbath.  I did this thousands upon thousands of times. 
 

The Sabbath then continues until sundown Saturday night. There is another ritual -Havdalah - which also involves a candle (and wine and spices) - that marks the end of the Sabbath. 
 

Anyone who reads your posts knows that like to ignore facts in favor of whatever agenda you’re pursuing. 
 

I invite you to call any rabbi in your community. They will be happy to explain the Jewish Sabbath to you.  I’d suggest an Orthodox rabbi.  They would likely have the patience necessary to dumb this down for you. 
 

And, yes, “the Gentiles changed it”, but your interpretation is woefully wrong. 

I've known this, but your post got me to wondering.  Does this still apply in the far North when  sunlight is drastically shortened or lengthened?  I don't mean that it doesn't apply - just how to Jews deal with a super long day or night and the Sabbath? 

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20 minutes ago, Rain said:

I've known this, but your post got me to wondering.  Does this still apply in the far North when  sunlight is drastically shortened or lengthened?  I don't mean that it doesn't apply - just how to Jews deal with a super long day or night and the Sabbath? 

The short answer - it depends. 
 

Here is a link to a site that gives a detailed explanation: https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/515/when-does-one-pray-when-there-is-no-day/

I’ve never specifically looked it up, but I imagine the observant Jewish population is rather small in any of the polar regions.  But for those that are there, the guidance on how to properly observe the Sabbath when the sun doesn’t set would come from their rabbi.  

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Rain and Raingirl are conversing on the same thread again!  I'm trippin'!  :o:blink:  :shok:

Anybody else?  ;):D 

Candidly, I couldn't remember which one of you mentioned Judaism in your religious background, but I went waaaay out on a limb and assumed it was Raingirl!  Have you heard the old saying about what "assuming" does? ;) I'm glad I was right!  So, now, at least for once, I'm not an ... Well, you know! :huh:

;):D 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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3 hours ago, Raingirl said:

The short answer - it depends. 
 

Here is a link to a site that gives a detailed explanation: https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/515/when-does-one-pray-when-there-is-no-day/

I’ve never specifically looked it up, but I imagine the observant Jewish population is rather small in any of the polar regions.  But for those that are there, the guidance on how to properly observe the Sabbath when the sun doesn’t set would come from their rabbi.  

Thanks.  That's kind of like how some stuff depends on your bishop.

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On 12/4/2020 at 12:50 PM, LDS Watchman said:

Thanks for the welcome.

Aittle about me. I'm in my late 30s, I'm married, and my wife and I have 4 kids. We live in Arizona.

As for the changes in the church, I wasn't referring to the recent changes due to Covid-19. Those temporary changes are understandable. 

I'm referring to the changed temple ordinances, changed teachings, and general worldiness in the church.

In regards to worldliness I listed several concerns in this thread already. Here are a few examples of what I'm talking about.

- Watching worldly TV programs and movies and listening to worldly music which glorify immortality and violence.

-Obsession with sports and other forms of worldly entertainment (including on the Sabbath)

-Inmodesty and wearing of costly apparel

-Love of riches and worldly possessions

-Wives working and limiting  the size of our families in order to obtain vain things of this world.

 

 

 

 

If we were really going worldly I would have a TR even though I can't quit smoking.

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26 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

If we were really going worldly I would have a TR even though I can't quit smoking.

I disagree. I think collectively we are steeped in Babylon. This unfortunately reality is clearly documented in the scriptures in my opinion.

To be honest I think smoking is way less serious than many of the less obvious sins that many card carrying members are guilty of, such as having one's heart set on the vain things of this world.

The word of wisdom wasn't even a commandment originally. 

Hope you find away to overcome it though. 

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10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It's a fact, in the Bible, just because the Gentiles came in and changed it, not my problem.

Probably not Gentiles, but converted Jews as they were the first Christians....though my timing may be off if it didn't happen immediately.

Edited by Calm
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9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

So God was wrong

Christ taught the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.  What is wrong with having it on a different day of the week, especially since weeks and calendars are man made artifacts that vary from culture to culture?

In Singapore, the Church holds Sabbath day meetings on every day of the week so that the massive service population (think housekeeper and maid) can all have a chance to worship together since so many have to work on Sundays and only get one day off a week for free time...or maybe one day and a half day, I looked it up once as my brother lives in Singapore and I was curious, but can't remember.

If the Church insisted that only Sunday Sabbath was allowed, how sad that would be for ignoring the needs of the majority to gather together to worship.  I am grateful the Lord set the example for using the Sabbath to raise up mankind and not mankind to raise up the Sabbath.

We use the Sabbath to worship God, we do not worship the Sabbath.

Edited by Calm
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On 12/4/2020 at 12:50 PM, LDS Watchman said:

Thanks for the welcome.

Aittle about me. I'm in my late 30s, I'm married, and my wife and I have 4 kids. We live in Arizona.

As for the changes in the church, I wasn't referring to the recent changes due to Covid-19. Those temporary changes are understandable. 

I'm referring to the changed temple ordinances, changed teachings, and general worldiness in the church.

In regards to worldliness I listed several concerns in this thread already. Here are a few examples of what I'm talking about.

- Watching worldly TV programs and movies and listening to worldly music which glorify immortality and violence.

-Obsession with sports and other forms of worldly entertainment (including on the Sabbath)

-Inmodesty and wearing of costly apparel

-Love of riches and worldly possessions

-Wives working and limiting  the size of our families in order to obtain vain things of this world.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MustardSeed
sorry
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1 minute ago, MustardSeed said:

-Wives working and limiting  the size of our families in order to obtain vain things of this world.

 

You lost me there. 

I am not worried about the church.  The Church will see itself through.  People will leave, that's predicted.  The three big temptations, lust pride and greed are and always have been a problem. But the prophets will teach us to repent, they always have, they always do, and they will warn of our destruction if we don't.  They will warn of us losing the Spirit.  They will warn of us chosing evil. They have always been right, and they will always be right.  They have been right for thousands of years, and it's not going to suddenly change just because you and I are alive.  

I don't think watching sports on Sunday is evil. Nor do I think boats or nice homes are evil.  I believe strongly that people can be very humble and loving and generous and also enjoy expensive lifestyle - it's not natural, but yes, it happens.  I know it happens.  Real evil is rooted in Pride, lust, greed, gluttony, hate, anger, etc.  We all have to be careful.  We are all sinning.  We are constantly called to repentance, and some of us will do so and many will not.  The church will not fail, but it will get small. 

I also believe change is legit. I have no problem with change.  Treating people of all races with equality is a necessary change.  Treating women with equality is a necessary change.  Modesty is not about covering shoulders - modesty is about being humble about what you have to offer.  Modesty is an attitude that BOTH men and women need to adopt.  It's. Not. About. Skirt. Length. And. Tempting. Helpless. Men. 

All of the preceding is my opinion, of course.  

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2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

You lost me there. 

I am not worried about the church.  The Church will see itself through.  People will leave, that's predicted.  The three big temptations, lust pride and greed are and always have been a problem. But the prophets will teach us to repent, they always have, they always do, and they will warn of our destruction if we don't.  They will warn of us losing the Spirit.  They will warn of us chosing evil. They have always been right, and they will always be right.  They have been right for thousands of years, and it's not going to suddenly change just because you and I are alive.  

I don't think watching sports on Sunday is evil. Nor do I think boats or nice homes are evil.  I believe strongly that people can be very humble and loving and generous and also enjoy expensive lifestyle - it's not natural, but yes, it happens.  I know it happens.  Real evil is rooted in Pride, lust, greed, gluttony, hate, anger, etc.  We all have to be careful.  We are all sinning.  We are constantly called to repentance, and some of us will do so and many will not.  The church will not fail, but it will get small. 

I also believe change is legit. I have no problem with change.  Treating people of all races with equality is a necessary change.  Treating women with equality is a necessary change.  Modesty is not about covering shoulders - modesty is about being humble about what you have to offer.  Modesty is an attitude that BOTH men and women need to adopt.  It's. Not. About. Skirt. Length. And. Tempting. Helpless. Men. 

All of the preceding is my opinion, of course.  

This!! 😀

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