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Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy


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14 minutes ago, juliann said:

And you have yet to admit that such sites are far worse, given the criteria I am seeing, than these videos. Yet they are not receiving equal condemnation. That doesn't lift your position either. (And the Christlike stuff implies that no critics believe in Christ nor are they subject to any moral or ethical standard which has always been a really bizarre "defense" of them.)

You want me to say that "some sites" are worse?  OK. "Some sites" are worse.  What did that accomplish?

This entire thread is about these FAIR videos. The only reason we're talking about "other sites" at all is because you keep trying to change the subject. So complaining that "other sites" aren't getting "equal condemnation" is pretty pointless.

 

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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33 minutes ago, juliann said:

That is what makes it so interesting to me. What is really going on with this.....

Judging by my skimming of this thread, it appears many defenders and members do not like these videos for various reasons.  THat's what seems to be going on.  I tried to listen to a couple and found them lacking anything interesting, new, or thoughtful.   There might be some good info somewhere in one or a few, but I haven't seen it and it appears others haven't either.  

Why are you so concerned about people objecting to these, so much so you are willing to question other member's intentions?   Seems like you're taking this too far.  

 

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54 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

You want me to say that "some sites" are worse?  OK. "Some sites" are worse.  What did that accomplish?

This entire thread is about these FAIR videos. The only reason we're talking about "other sites" at all is because you keep trying to change the subject. So complaining that "other sites" aren't getting "equal condemnation" is pretty pointless.

 

Nice try, but unless you are going after the black kid, this is about the content. It is about FM being told what their standards should be. Well, that means we have to take a look at standards and come up with a fair measure of them. I say we start with what the critics deem quite acceptable and go from there.  Then we can decide if these videos exceed the acceptable limit. Why in the world would you object to that?

 

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Leo Winegar has put out something about the videos on his Facebook page.  For those who don't know Leo he's involved with Uplift.  His statement reads in part:

"I personally believe that sarcasm, snark, ridicule, and other related forms of mockery are fine for teasing close friends, but not much else. Teasing among friends can be a lot of fun and create a close bond. But when it comes to public discourse, mockery can cause misunderstanding, unnecessary division and pain. Mocking people and organizations that fall outside our circle can feel good to those inside the circle, but it doesn’t make it right, and it doesn’t mean it’s an effective way to share an opinion.

Some recently released videos from FairMormon fall within this realm of mockery. Many people both inside and outside our church find these videos offensive and hurtful, but many others find them entertaining and informative. Some see them as a natural response to the criticism and mockery our Church constantly faces.

My personal opinion? We should all try to live lives of charity, and take the high road when people mock us. Sarcasm, snark, and ridicule might turn a few heads, but it doesn't turn many hearts."

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Just imagine if I listened to critics and even members of the church on how this site should be ran.  It’s very liberating to stay anonymous and not seek outside funding/donations for it and keep it private.  
 

Sometimes people need to stop taking g themselves so seriously and stop being so easily offended.  
 

Nemesis

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5 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

Just imagine if I listened to critics and even members of the church on how this site should be ran.  It’s very liberating to stay anonymous and not seek outside funding/donations for it and keep it private.  
 

Sometimes people need to stop taking g themselves so seriously and stop being so easily offended.  
 

Nemesis

Nemesis, I think this is second time in two days that you've responded with content rather than moderation.

Are lockdowns making you want to socialize more? ;) 

By the way, thanks for all you do here!

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4 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Nemesis, I think this is second time in two days that you've responded with content rather than moderation.

Are lockdowns making you want to socialize more? ;) 

By the way, thanks for all you do here!

Yes to the lockdown and also how this kind of topic irritates me.  If critics are allowed to manage our reactions to their treatment of what’s important/sacred to LDS then we lose control of our narrative.  For years I have gotten emails and messages from both critics and members of the church admonishing me for this site.  The don’t understand the importance of having a site like this available where we control the balance while allowing differing point of views to not be easily drowned out.  
 

Again I think if Fairmormon succumbs to the critics/members telling them how to present content we are going to be pigeon holed and stuck to presentations we would get in gospel doctrine class. 
 

nemesis 

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1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

Yes to the lockdown and also how this kind of topic irritates me.  If critics are allowed to manage our reactions to their treatment of what’s important/sacred to LDS then we lose control of our narrative.  For years I have gotten emails and messages from both critics and members of the church admonishing me for this site.  The don’t understand the importance of having a site like this available where we control the balance while allowing differing point of views to not be easily drowned out.  
 

Again I think if Fairmormon succumbs to the critics/members telling them how to present content we are going to be pigeon holed and stuck to presentations we would get in gospel doctrine class. 
 

nemesis 

Best site on the internet bar none, for exactly the reasons you've put forth! Thanks for being here Nemesis!

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Looks like fairmormon is promoting violence against people they don't like:

I thought FM was wanting to go back to tactics 20-30 years ago, with deception and angry ad hominem, but by promoting murder....sounds like they want to take it back near 2 centuries.  I know most members would agree FM is losing it by supporting this stuff, but even for those defending FM, one must wonder,,,a bridge too far?  

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Stemelbow, was that video really from Kwaku El?

Anyone here who hasn’t watched the video I would highly encourage you not to. It’s very violent and disturbing. 
 

it has a soldier that is named FAIR beating to death with a bat in gruesome detail a soldier named John Dehlin.

It is one of the most gruesome and disturbing things I’ve seen. Please do not watch.

I sincerely hope that FAIR and Kwaku El had nothing to do with this video.

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1 hour ago, Peppermint Patty said:

Stemelbow, was that video really from Kwaku El?

Anyone here who hasn’t watched the video I would highly encourage you not to. It’s very violent and disturbing. 
 

it has a soldier that is named FAIR beating to death with a bat in gruesome detail a soldier named John Dehlin.

It is one of the most gruesome and disturbing things I’ve seen. Please do not watch.

I sincerely hope that FAIR and Kwaku El had nothing to do with this video.

It’s very obviously says Mormon Stories under it, who flashes the misogynistic TITS on it. Why isnt the link directly from Kwaku or FM if they did this? This is very curious. 

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1 hour ago, Peppermint Patty said:

I sincerely hope that FAIR and Kwaku El had nothing to do with this video.

Kwaku shared the video on Twitter with the caption "now THIS is something". Someone else apparently created the video but has since taken it down. Pretty sure FairMormon had nothing to do with it.

Edited to add: This Is the Show director Cardon Ellis shared it too, with the caption "Funny!"

Edited by Nevo
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31 minutes ago, Nevo said:

Kwaku shared the video on Twitter with the caption "now THIS is something". Someone else apparently created the video but has since taken it down. Pretty sure FairMormon had nothing to do with it.

Edited to add: This Is the Show director Cardon Ellis shared it too, with the caption "Funny!"

Ah, thanks for the explanation. Not cool coming from these two. This is now being circulated as a FM production. Ironic that some short videos of mixed quality  are the end of the world but lying about FM is just par for the course. Sigh.  

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5 hours ago, Peppermint Patty said:

Stemelbow, was that video really from Kwaku El?

Anyone here who hasn’t watched the video I would highly encourage you not to. It’s very violent and disturbing. 
 

it has a soldier that is named FAIR beating to death with a bat in gruesome detail a soldier named John Dehlin.

It is one of the most gruesome and disturbing things I’ve seen. Please do not watch.

I sincerely hope that FAIR and Kwaku El had nothing to do with this video.

A few notes:

1. The YouTube video link is here: https://tinyurl.com/y45hjutg

2. For those of you who do not want to watch, the video is a partially dubbed-over scene from Inglourious Basterds, a 2009 film by Quentin Tarantino.  It's extremely violent, and involves a (fictitious) American commando team in WW2 made up of American Jews who sneak around behind enemy lines in Europe terrorising Nazis.  In this scene a muscly Jewish guy literally beats a captured German soldier to death with a baseball bad, while the others cheer and laugh.  Very violent.  The video superimposes text on the scene labeling the lead commando as "FAIRMORMON" and the soon-to-be-beaten-to-death German soldier as "John Dehlin."  The video even dubs in "Hi everyone, this is John Dehlin" over a line spoken by the German soldier. Then the baseball-bad-wielding Jewish guy comes out and is text-labeled as "STONEXVI," and pokes at a medal pinned to the soldier's uniform, which is labeled "Mormon Stories Podcast."   The baseball-bad-wielding Jewish guy then raises his bat, which is labeled "TITS," and the massively violent beating to death happens.

"STONEXVI" is apparently a "new media network" run by . . . Kwaku.

3. The YouTube video was posted by MormonStories on December 4, 2020, presumably John Dehlin (on the "MormonStories Podcast" channel) with the title "Kwaku El of FairMormon just tweeted thi."  It also includes the following description:

Quote

Kwaku El of FairMormon just tweeted this.

(Warning. Super violent.)

A friend advised me to call the police. Your suggestions?

For the record, Kwaku is funded by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints via the More Good Foundation and FAIRMormon.

Your suggestions?

Here are screen caps:

Pic-01.png

Pic-02.png

4. Here is Kwaku's Twitter feed going back to November 20 (since Dehlin said that Kwaku "just tweeted this").  I did not see this video, so it appears that either it was removed, or else it was never tweeted by Kwaku.  (EDIT: It appears Kwaku did, in fact post a link to this on Twitter: 

5. A sampling from the YouTube comments posted to this video thus far:.

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MilliesMom M 
4 hours ago

If you're wondering why the Mormon Church is statistically the third most hated religion in America, wonder no more.

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Becca Barton DeGrizio
8 hours ago

This is absolutely disgusting. Guess the Mormons are finally starting to show their true colors.

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Jay Beckstead
4 hours ago

A violent cult that believes any means to fulfill their wicked ends.

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ashleyclawson333
9 hours ago

This is disgusting! Now the church condones this kind of violence used in its defense?! Maybe if they had any valid arguments they wouldn't have to stoop so low.

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Tanner Vincent
8 hours ago

They always have, remember mountain meadows

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N M
4 hours ago

Huh this seem a good way to turn the other cheek in christlike love, but yup this is the true Mormon way of comply or die

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James Rigby
8 hours ago

Should Kwaku even be watching this stuff? I can’t believe the level they have sunk to.

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SM
3 hours ago

This needs to be reported to the police

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Maree de Marco
2 hours ago

Reported! You just proved how hateful and dangerous the Mormon church is.

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Rachel Thorpe
1 hour ago

“You can leave the church but you can’t leave it alone” they say. Kwaku, why can’t you leave John Dehlin alone? Why resort to violence? This is not the gospel I grew up in.

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Sage Owl
3 hours ago

You know, I wanted to believe that the initials of the show were an accident. Apparently not. Disgusting.

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Ryan Stewart
2 hours ago

That’s disgusting. I would call the police. That’s a direct threat on your life. What kind of sick minded individual would ever think this is justified?

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Jaxon Sharp
2 hours ago

Wow. The gloves are off... good thing those shows are poorly done and give INCREDIBLE amounts of ammunition for anyone willing to play dirty back.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
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25 minutes ago, juliann said:

Ah, thanks for the explanation. Not cool coming from these two. This is now being circulated as a FM production. Ironic that some short videos of mixed quality  are the end of the world but lying about FM is just par for the course. Sigh.  

I haven't seen anyone saying that this is a FM production - just people pointing out that it was tweeted out by someone recently who is associated with FM and whose videos are featured on the FM website.

Have you seen people circulating it as a FM production?

ETA: Although I'm not a faithful member of the church, and am often critical of the organization, if anyone were to ask me if I thought that this clip represented either the church of FM, I would reply "definitely not"

Edited by Malc
Add explanatory note with my opinion on the provenance of the video clip.
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12 minutes ago, Malc said:

I haven't seen anyone saying that this is a FM production - just people pointing out that it was tweeted out by someone recently who is associated with FM and whose videos are featured on the FM website.

Have you seen people circulating it as a FM production?

ETA: Although I'm not a faithful member of the church, and am often critical of the organization, if anyone were to ask me if I thought that this clip represented either the church of FM, I would reply "definitely not"

I would fully agree, it might be one of Kwaku's roadies who did it for him, thinking he would like it, which apparently he might have since he tweeted it. Kwaku's a young guy and youth right now aren't so sheltered. And this probably doesn't phase them in the slightest.

Edited by Tacenda
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5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I would fully agree, it might be one of Kwaku's roadies who did it for him, thinking he would like it, which apparently he might have since he tweeted it. Kwaku's a young guy and youth right now aren't so sheltered. And this probably doesn't phase them in the slightest.

However, it might be worthwhile for FM to explicitly distance themselves from the clip (since it has a character labeled FAIRMORMON) and the idea of violence against critics of the church.

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20 minutes ago, Malc said:

I haven't seen anyone saying that this is a FM production - just people pointing out that it was tweeted out by someone recently who is associated with FM and whose videos are featured on the FM website.

Have you seen people circulating it as a FM production?

ETA: Although I'm not a faithful member of the church, and am often critical of the organization, if anyone were to ask me if I thought that this clip represented either the church of FM, I would reply "definitely not"

Point taken. My introduction to this was here....Stemelbow saying, "Looks like fairmormon is promoting violence against people they don't like:" before accusing them of promoting murder. I am also seeing comments claiming these two are representatives of FM. So the implication is definitely there. I foresee a full time job for someone to have to continually point this out.

Peggy Stack said she is writing an article on the videos. 

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My take: I think this new, "hip" initiative by FAIR will be a flash in the pan. The shelf life of the vine and tik tok generation's trends is not long. It's possible that FAIR will stop supporting it based on feedback, but I think Kwaku El (is that a real name, or a stage name/pseudonym?) himself will get bored and move on, too. 

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6 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Looks like fairmormon is promoting violence against people they don't like:

I thought FM was wanting to go back to tactics 20-30 years ago, with deception and angry ad hominem, but by promoting murder....sounds like they want to take it back near 2 centuries.  I know most members would agree FM is losing it by supporting this stuff, but even for those defending FM, one must wonder,,,a bridge too far?  

This is claimed to be tweeted by Kwaku, but I am not seeing a screen shot, so I don’t know yet. I will look into it. 
 

Kwaku is not FM and what he does on his own is definitely not vetted by FM. Please do not post lies about us. I am sure enough real stuff is there to criticize without making stuff up since we are, after all, human. 
 

added:  appreciate the research done by Nevo and Smac. 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, rongo said:

My take: I think this new, "hip" initiative by FAIR will be a flash in the pan. The shelf life of the vine and tik tok generation's trends is not long. It's possible that FAIR will stop supporting it based on feedback, but I think Kwaku El (is that a real name, or a stage name/pseudonym?) himself will get bored and move on, too. 

I think you may be right. I am very interesting to see FM's response to this, hopefully sooner than later.  

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33 minutes ago, Calm said:

This is claimed to be tweeted by Kwaku, but I am not seeing a screen shot, so I don’t know yet. I will look into it. 
 

Kwaku is not FM and what he does on his own is definitely not vetted by FM. Please do not post lies about us. I am sure enough real stuff is there to criticize without making stuff up since we are, after all, human. 
 

added:  appreciate the research done by Nevo and Smac. 

Not to contradict you at all, Calm, but anyone outside of the LDS-related blogosphere is unlikely to understand this relationship, or lack thereof.

What people will see is that Kwaku's videos are hosted on FM, and will likely infer a relationship that "insiders" know does not exist.

This is why I think that FM should consider making a clear statement to the effect that they do not condone this kind of attack on anyone, critic or not.

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11 minutes ago, Malc said:

Not to contradict you at all, Calm, but anyone outside of the LDS-related blogosphere is unlikely to understand this relationship, or lack thereof.

What people will see is that Kwaku's videos are hosted on FM, and will likely infer a relationship that "insiders" know does not exist.

This is why I think that FM should consider making a clear statement to the effect that they do not condone this kind of attack on anyone, critic or not.

FM really does need to make a statement.  I also think it would be helpful if they they could make it more clear that they are not exercising any oversight on the FM videos.

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