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1 minute ago, bluebell said:

If that is what Dehlin is worried about then why continue to broadcast the video when everywhere else has taken it down, ensuring that as many people as possible see it?  Wouldn't that increase the chances that a violent person would act on it?

 The public police stunt is all that is available to Dehlin. (He isn't known for honesty, I'm not sure we should take his word that he called them, especially since he has gone radio silent on the results). All he and his lawyer friend are left with legally is the clean hands doctrine: 

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 This maxim bars relief for anyone guilty of improper conduct in the matter at hand. It operates to prevent any affirmative recovery for the person with "unclean hands," no matter how unfairly the person's adversary has treated him or her.


 

 

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4 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Following up on my CFR.  Please respond to it.

Thanks,

-Smac

I did. It's already been addressed in this thread. Juliann described one retweet with the Deznat hashtag that I already posted. I am talking specifically about Seariac retweeting posts with Deznat hashtags, which she seems to do regularly.

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11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If that is what Dehlin is worried about then why continue to broadcast the video when everywhere else has taken it down, ensuring that as many people as possible see it?  Wouldn't that increase the chances that a violent person would act on it?

I wasn't aware that he was broadcasting the video; if so, then I take your point - it seems rather counterproductive.

Anyway, I was really just responding to klindley's statements: "How a production company or series of YouTube videos would inflict violence on John Dehlin is beyond me.  Maybe John is actually terrified that these videos will somehow kill him."

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7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Also, Wheat and Tares did a lengthy post about DezNat and its origins (and similarities with other times in church history) which is imo an accurate summary: https://wheatandtares.org/2020/08/08/deznat-and-the-latter-day-saint-vigilante-tradition/

You seriously think a BLOG is documentation? Here I am, condemning what I have heard about DezNat. Here you are, condemning people and anyone you feel inclined to associate with them  for being DezNat. Without offering any documentation but some short blog.  It's despicable. 

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7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

As has already been documented here, she retweets posts with DezNat hashtags.

Again, CFR.  Chapter and verse.  Links.  

7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

You may disagree, but I think that is inappropriate.

You may want to read the thread I started about DezNat to better understand my perspective on it.

7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

On a personal level, DezNat continually paints "exmos" and "progmos" as the enemy.

"DezNat" does this?  Where?  When?  

7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

More broadly they have a pattern of drawing equivalence between alt-rights positions and "following the brethren."

And "progressives" draw equivalence between leftist positions and the Gospel.  

7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

It is a brand of religious nationalism that is unhealthy for a worldwide church, and it is frequently paired with violent imagery.

The same can be said when leftists dress their political viewpoints in religious garb.  It's not appropriate either way.

Thanks,

-Smac

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14 minutes ago, juliann said:

Do you find it believable to maintain a fear for his safety on one hand while being the only party who is publishing a video that is supposed to be life threatening? Anybody who has been at this for any length of time knows that manufactured scandals (and even some real ones) are a flash in the pan, only to be reinvented the next go round.  I suspect the unintended consquence for Dehlin and his ilk is that their aggressions are going to be monitored and databased much more closely now. 

I think generating widespread condemnation of the video has proven to be a successful strategy.

What aggressions have Dehlin "and his ilk" engaged in that deserve to be monitored in a database? Just one example, please.

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1 minute ago, Meadowchik said:

I did. It's already been addressed in this thread. Juliann described one retweet with the Deznat hashtag that I already posted. I am talking specifically about Seariac retweeting posts with Deznat hashtags, which she seems to do regularly.

No. You pointed to a tweet that she retweeted that had no hashtag at all in it. You then posted other tweets from a second individuals account. This is dishonest. 

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2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:
Quote

Following up on my CFR.  Please respond to it.

I did.

You did not.  I have yet to see a link. 

2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

It's already been addressed in this thread.

Then please provide a link to the post(s) where it has "been addressed."

2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Juliann described one retweet with the Deznat hashtag that I already posted. I am talking specifically about Seariac retweeting posts with Deznat hashtags, which she seems to do regularly.

CFR, please.  Links.  Chapter and verse.

Thanks,

-Smac

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1 minute ago, Analytics said:

I think generating widespread condemnation of the video has proven to be a successful strategy.

Ah.  So the "strategy" was to garner publicity?

This is a legitimate use of calling 911?

Thanks,

-Smac

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2 minutes ago, juliann said:

You seriously think a BLOG is documentation? Here I am, condemning what I have heard about DezNat. Here you are, condemning people and anyone you feel inclined to associate with them  for being DezNat. Without offering any documentation but some short blog.  It's despicable. 

You asked me to explain why I find DezNat to be harmful. I responded first in my own words and then also with the Wheat and Tares post which documents plenty of examples.

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2 minutes ago, smac97 said:

You did not.  I have yet to see a link. 

Then please provide a link to the post(s) where it has "been addressed."

CFR, please.  Links.  Chapter and verse.

Thanks,

-Smac

She may be referring to this post:.

But if she is, she is falsely misrepresenting what is in it.

 

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1 minute ago, Analytics said:

 

I think generating widespread condemnation of the video has proven to be a successful strategy.

What aggressions have Dehlin "and his ilk" engaged in that deserve to be monitored in a database? Just one example, please.

I'm not searching for examples. That was my point, it needs to be databased since this is now the new battleground. Since memes are now fearsome things, I think even you have to admit that you have seen disgusting memes with heads superimposed on them. My experience has been more with real life stuff like doxing. It's happened to several I know, including me. And no, I'm not discussing it here.  You are free to disbelieve me. 

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2 minutes ago, kllindley said:

She may be referring to this post:.

But if she is, she is falsely misrepresenting what is in it.

 

Hence my CFR.  I want to see what she is saying about Hanna for myself.

Thanks,

-Smac

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4 minutes ago, kllindley said:

This is a false statement. Please retract.

 

6 minutes ago, kllindley said:

No. You pointed to a tweet that she retweeted that had no hashtag at all in it. You then posted other tweets from a second individuals account. This is dishonest. 

Oh yes, you're correct, the one I posted here only had DezNat in the name of the person she was retweeting. 

Yet she does retweet posts with DezNat hashtags, these from a  look of her more recent tweets:

 

HSdezNAT.JPG

HSdezNAT2.JPG

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8 minutes ago, kllindley said:

She may be referring to this post:.

But if she is, she is falsely misrepresenting what is in it.

 

Just misremembering. Sorry about that.

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29 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

On a personal level, DezNat continually paints "exmos" and "progmos" as the enemy.

And exmos and progmos often paint faithful Church members as ignorant rubes.  I love how exmos can dish it out but they go cry when someone claps back.

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15 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Nobody is saying you can't.  Rather, I think the point here is that "reach{ing} out to the person" you have told the police has published an actual and legitimate threat to your safety rather undermines your claim that you think the threat was actual and legitimate.

As far as I can tell, he didn't construe the video as an "actual and legitimate threat to your safety." He construed it as something that was really disturbing that the police might want to know about. The claim you think he undermined was never made. 

 

15 minutes ago, smac97 said:

John Dehlin called 911 about a "threat." 

I don't think he used the word "threat." I think you are misconstruing the story. If you think he did report a "threat", CFR.

 

15 minutes ago, smac97 said:

What legal purpose would there be for an attorney to tell his client to described Kwaku as "Kwaku El of FairMormon" and "funded by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints via the More Good Foundation and FAIRMormon" and ask for "suggestions" from YouTube commenters?

How would I know? You're the lawyer. And why ask such a weird hypothetical question? An attorney never did tell his client to use those specific words. In fact, I'm sure John Dehlin hasn't engaged the services of an attorney. CFR on your implication that he has an attorney.

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2 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

And exmos and progmos often paint faithful Church members as ignorant rubes.  I love how exmos can dish it out but they go cry when someone claps back.

I already have to deal with the church telling my LDS family members messages about exMormons. I'd rather the Deznat versions of that (which are much worse in my estimation) not be elevated by association.

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45 minutes ago, Analytics said:

I think the issue is that once you report somebody to the police, a certain bridge has been crossed: after calling the police, you can't reach out to the person you reported and pretend like nothing had happened; doing so would make you look crazy. Cardon painted the story like that. What Dehlin did was more reasonable: he reached out out and tried to resolve the situation before he called the cops. He only called the cops after 5 hours had passed without a response from Cardon.

Dehlin saved and broadcasted the video late Friday night. His friend who happens to be an attorney suggested he do this because he thought it was important for other people to be able to see it too so that they could understand how serious it was. I can't say that is bad advice--publicizing it has resulted in pretty wide-spread condemnation, despite Cardon finding the video to be funny.

Do we know what Cardon knows about the timeline, and if he would have any reason to know when Dehlin called 911 in relation to sending him that message on the same day? I’m a little confused why you’re saying he ‘painted a story’ about that. John Dehlin called 911 on the same day he reached out to someone and you seem to be stretching for a reason as to why this makes sense from Dehlin’s perspective.

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4 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

This is the first image I see on r/exmormon

Post image

Spare me the crocodile tears for those poor exmos who are persecuted by the big bad church.  If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen.

There's no "getting out" for people who are raised in the church with most of their family of friends in the church. I'd rather the environment we share be better for the believers and nonbelievers alike.

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8 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

 

Oh yes, you're correct, the one I posted here only had DezNat in the name of the person she was retweeting. 

Yet she does retweet posts with DezNat hashtags, these from a  look of her more recent tweets:

 

HSdezNAT.JPG

HSdezNAT2.JPG

Thanks for clarifying. 

I would maintain that retweeting something with a Hashtag in no way means one agrees with everything associated with said hashtag. Nonetheless, I respect your right to a differing opinion. 

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