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Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy


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I have to admit, I love how TITS took all the conversations and defenses of the last few days ("They don't support the acronym...", "They are just being edgy like the youth want...", "This is the new direction of apologetics...")  and did a "Hold my root beer" with a video of a guy labeled "John Dehlin" getting his head bashed in with a baseball bat labeled "TITS" (referring to the This Is The Story podcast), with FAIR labeled as an encouraging onlooker.

I've been following apologetics for 30 years (since the days of "The Truth about the Godmakers" and Dan Petersen's "Offenders for a Word"), and never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined it would come to this.

If FAIR represents LDS apologetics, then LDS apologetics has just jumped the shark. I honestly feel sorry for everyone who spent decades building the brand and then watched them hand the keys to the three stooges.

FWIW, Cardon Ellis should have "Requires Adult Supervision" tattooed on his forehead. Whoever bought his sales pitch for this at FAIR is a sucker.

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12 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I have to admit, I love how TITS took all the conversations and defenses of the last few days ("They don't support the acronym...", "They are just being edgy like the youth want...", "This is the new direction of apologetics...")  and did a "Hold my root beer" with a video of a guy labeled "John Dehlin" getting his head bashed in with a baseball bat labeled "TITS" (referring to the This Is The Story podcast), with FAIR labeled as an encouraging onlooker.

I've been following apologetics for 30 years (since the days of "The Truth about the Godmakers" and Dan Petersen's "Offenders for a Word"), and never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined it would come to this.

If FAIR represents LDS apologetics, then LDS apologetics has just jumped the shark. I honestly feel sorry for everyone who spent decades building the brand and then watched them hand the keys to the three stooges.

FWIW, Cardon Ellis should have "Requires Adult Supervision" tattooed on his forehead. Whoever bought his sales pitch for this at FAIR is a sucker.

Did someone affiliated with their videos make the meme or did they share something someone else made/shared? If it was someone affiliated with the show then yes, it backs up your point about invalidating discussion regarding the acronym. But if not...

Edited by Judd
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28 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I have to admit, I love how TITS took all the conversations and defenses of the last few days ("They don't support the acronym...", "They are just being edgy like the youth want...", "This is the new direction of apologetics...")  and did a "Hold my root beer" with a video of a guy labeled "John Dehlin" getting his head bashed in with a baseball bat labeled "TITS" (referring to the This Is The Story podcast), with FAIR labeled as an encouraging onlooker.

I've been following apologetics for 30 years (since the days of "The Truth about the Godmakers" and Dan Petersen's "Offenders for a Word"), and never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined it would come to this.

If FAIR represents LDS apologetics, then LDS apologetics has just jumped the shark. I honestly feel sorry for everyone who spent decades building the brand and then watched them hand the keys to the three stooges.

FWIW, Cardon Ellis should have "Requires Adult Supervision" tattooed on his forehead. Whoever bought his sales pitch for this at FAIR is a sucker.

FAIR didn’t do that video though. 

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30 minutes ago, bluebell said:

FAIR didn’t do that video though. 

Very true.  But FairMormon's "brand" is impacted by those who produce content that they endorse.

I wouldn't be surprised if FAIR made a course correction here.  And quickly.  They don't want to be even mildly associated with R-rated violent content.

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37 minutes ago, bluebell said:

FAIR didn’t do that video though. 

I've looked (though, I admit, not very vigorously) for some kind of statement from FAIR about the video, since it was retweeted by someone closely associated with them.

I have to admit that I'm puzzled at my lack of success.

While they didn't make the video, they don't seem to be anxious to dissociate themselves from it.

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15 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

Very true.  But FairMormon's "brand" is impacted by those who produce content that they endorse.

I wouldn't be surprised if FAIR made a course correction here.  And quickly.  They don't want to be even mildly associated with R-rated violent content.

The question regarding whether it came from them was regarding the TITS reference.

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1 hour ago, Judd said:

Did someone affiliated with their videos make the meme or did they share something someone else made/shared? If it was someone affiliated with the show then yes, it backs up your point about invalidating discussion regarding the acronym. But if not...

The way social media works is that if you share something (without commenting otherwise), you are endorsing what you share.

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2 hours ago, Judd said:

I think this kind of encapsulates my view of Dehlin’s abilities to scrutinize information, navigate situations, and respond accordingly:

Whatever one’s opinion regarding the meme, he didn’t just contact the local police department — he called emergency dispatch. He apparently felt it important to crowdsource the answer to the question as to whether or not he should call police, so I’m not certain there’s an argument to be made regarding the justification for utilizing emergency dispatch rather than the non-emergency line. But to top this off, he tells the poor individual fielding this emergency phone call that two people making threats belong to non-profits that are ‘subsidized by the Mormon church.’ Maybe he could have slipped in something about Book of Mormon historicity and a link to Mormon Stories, too, just to be thorough.

Are you saying he called 911? I wonder how many hours after that he asked to be on the podcast of the guy that is supposed to kill him. That tops it all. I have been hearing stories about callers being put on hold. This is beyond anything to do with Mormons.

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4 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The other entities are labeled as things and groups, such as "FAIR" and "TITS." They should have maintained that across the board. Naming specific people was a huge mistake.

In reality, what is the worst that happens here?  Banned from Twitter and YouTube?  And that probably more due to copyright infringement more than anything else.  No serious person believes that this video was an actual threat.  It's a joke.  A stupid joke, but a joke.

John calling the cops is the biggest boomer move I've seen in a long time.

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13 minutes ago, cinepro said:

You re-tweet it, you own it.

Cinepro. Get your facts straight!  FM didn't retweet anything. Go after them for what they did, not what a couple of kids did on their own twitter feed. 

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3 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

In reality, what is the worst that happens here?  Banned from Twitter and YouTube?  And that probably more due to copyright infringement more than anything else.  No serious person believes that this video was an actual threat.  It's a joke.  A stupid joke, but a joke.

John calling the cops is the biggest boomer move I've seen in a long time.

Hey, youngster! Boomers have a sense of civic responsibility! We don't claim him. 

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11 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

In reality, what is the worst that happens here?  Banned from Twitter and YouTube?  And that probably more due to copyright infringement more than anything else.  No serious person believes that this video was an actual threat.  It's a joke.  A stupid joke, but a joke.

John calling the cops is the biggest boomer move I've seen in a long time.

At first I thought the same, and it's youth being dumb. But then I thought of the wackos out there that might just go do it. John said in a YouTube video posted today about the whole mess, if you want to check it out, that his family has been threatened, don't know if there are others out there or not. He was emotional at the end and was sincerely worried.

Everyone needs to put themselves in his shoes for a minute, and picture your own name on the guy that is getting his head bashed in, think how it would feel. Cinepro's right about John's name being on it, it's a game changer.

Try that exercise, picture in your mind your name on the person getting bludgeoned to death in a video for the world to see, it will change your mind I'll bet. 

Edited by Tacenda
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50 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

Very true.  But FairMormon's "brand" is impacted by those who produce content that they endorse.

I wouldn't be surprised if FAIR made a course correction here.  And quickly.  They don't want to be even mildly associated with R-rated violent content.

I agree. 

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40 minutes ago, Malc said:

I've looked (though, I admit, not very vigorously) for some kind of statement from FAIR about the video, since it was retweeted by someone closely associated with them.

I have to admit that I'm puzzled at my lack of success.

While they didn't make the video, they don't seem to be anxious to dissociate themselves from it.

Hopefully one is coming. 

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4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I at first thought the same, youth being dumb. But not when you think of the wackos out there that might just go do it. John said in a YouTube video posted today about the whole mess if you want to check it out, and said his family has been threatened, don't know if there are others out there or not. He was emotional at the end and is sincerely worried.

 

Was that before or after he was texting them begging to go on their podcast?

Quote

Everyone needs to put themselves in his shoes for a minute, and picture your name on the guy that is getting his head bashed in, it's amazing how your thoughts can go from thinking it's not serious or threatening to threatening. Think how it would feel, try that exercise, picture in your mind your name on person getting bludgeoned to death in a video for the world to see, it will change your mind I'll bet. 

Yes, every single one of us has been glorifying the video, it's so cool we are hoping we are next! But I am contributing to Mormon Stories after being forced to rethink my love of the video meme.  Do you want to start a new thread for your ridiculous board nannying?  

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34 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

In reality, what is the worst that happens here?  Banned from Twitter and YouTube?  And that probably more due to copyright infringement more than anything else.  No serious person believes that this video was an actual threat.  It's a joke.  A stupid joke, but a joke.

John calling the cops is the biggest boomer move I've seen in a long time.

If what Kwaku & Co. did could (or perhaps better said, should) get anyone banned from Twitter and Youtube for violating copyright, then there shouldn't be any Twitter or Youtube.  Musicians can incorporate the work of other musicians into their own work by "sampling" it, a person can use a short clip of something for purposes of comedy, parody, or commentary, and use of copyrighted works for educational purposes is permitted under fair use, all without violating the owner's copyright.  Whether Kwaku & Co. should have done what they did and whether any reasonable person would consider it a credible threat are separate issues, but (while I am not a lawyer and this post should not be considered legal advice :rolleyes:<_<), I don't think any reasonable court would consider it a violation of the filmmakers' copyright.

P.S.: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-rule-copyright-material-30100.html

The only question is, since Kwaku & Co. weren't parodying Inglorious Basterds itself, but, rather, were using it, essentially, to parody (or at least to make fun of) Mr. Dehlin, Mr. Runnels, etc. would their use of it still be protected by fair use?  Again, IANAL, but, my guess would be yes.  Comedians do that kind of stuff all the time, and they would lose a major source of material if courts were not to deem it fair use.

Edited by Kenngo1969
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13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I at first thought the same, youth being dumb. But not when you think of the wackos out there that might just go do it. John said in a YouTube video posted today about the whole mess if you want to check it out, and said his family has been threatened, don't know if there are others out there or not. He was emotional at the end and is sincerely worried.

Everyone needs to put themselves in his shoes for a minute, and picture your own name on the guy that is getting his head bashed in, think how it would feel. Cinepro's right about John's name being on it, it's a game changer.

Try that exercise, picture in your mind your name on the person getting bludgeoned to death in a video for the world to see, it will change your mind I'll bet. 

Sorry to tell you this, but it isn’t his first time being an over dramatic victim.  

This whole episode of mo/exmo drama is much ado about nothing.  

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47 minutes ago, Malc said:

I've looked (though, I admit, not very vigorously) for some kind of statement from FAIR about the video, since it was retweeted by someone closely associated with them.

I have to admit that I'm puzzled at my lack of success.

While they didn't make the video, they don't seem to be anxious to dissociate themselves from it.

So you think FM is supposed to monitor the twitter and FB feeds of everyone who has ever done something for them? Wouldn't that be a little...creepy? Any comment should be about their own stuff.

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2 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

Sorry to tell you this, but it isn’t his first time being an over dramatic victim.

Remember when he crowd-sourced the editing of Wikipedia because he thought apologists had somehow hijacked his page?  LOL.  He couldn't fathom that anyone -- other than believing Mormons -- viewed him as a tool.

 

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1 minute ago, Ipod Touch said:

Remember when he crowd-sourced the editing of Wikipedia because he thought apologists had somehow hijacked his page?  LOL.  He couldn't fathom that anyone -- other than believing Mormons -- viewed him as a tool.

 

We have a whole thread in the archives documenting the whole thing. 

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28 minutes ago, juliann said:

Are you saying he called 911? I wonder how many hours after that he asked to be on the podcast of the guy that is supposed to kill him. That tops it all. I have been hearing stories about callers being put on hold. This is beyond anything to do with Mormons.

He said he called 911 (and not just local police). On page 8 someone posted him saying that. 

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