Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy

[Hamba Tuhan 11,001]

9 hours ago, bluebell said:

The video is awful.  The people who made it need to rethink their personal compass because it's broken.

You're referring to Quentin Tarantino and Universal Studios, I assume?

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm 40,649]

Speaking of absurd....

Brought to my attention by a friend, John Dehlin's asked to go on Cardon Ellis' show and highly complimented both him and Kwaku...apparently this morning if I am reading the time stamp correctly.  The Tarentino meme was shared on Twitter sometime on the 4th, so before Dehlin reached out, but I have seen a screenshot of him announcing the meme at around 11:30 the night before.  Ellis not knowing if Dehlin is crazy or a 3D chess playing troll...got to agree with that.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Calm

[juliann 13,183]

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

So I figured I could track a movie if not debates, arguments, etc, so I looked this up.  He was one of three main college students working together to create something they hoped would be new, one of the three working in the screenplay, producers, etc. Not one of the directors. 
 

He was baptized after graduating from High School, so it looks like he was a member when he worked on this.  He comes from a liberal Christian background, he says when he converted he tried really hard to stop using swear words.  (His conversion video from 2017).  I only saw him use profanity once in the movie when disgusted at one of the kids who threw up when drunk.  His character appeared to be quite clean cut even if two of the friends were less than that.  When the other kid was letting loose, he was going "oh my gosh!!".

I don't think it is one he needs to be ashamed of even if I don't find the swearing necessary.  It is done overwhelmingly by one character in the parts I watched, so I suspect it was their way of defining him. I skipped the sex stuff so can only say it appeared to be mostly flashbacks about a girl one of them couldn't let go, but there could have been more as I only skimmed through the second half...figured that would be more intense and have the worse stuff as from the way Tacenda was talking about it, I thought it was a juvenile comedy.  But it was a very serious, quiet (in tone, there was some yelling), thoughtful movie about depression and other concerns for college aged kids.  

The narrator was gay, but hadn't told his friends, had tried to kill himself a number of times.  Kwaku's character was a perfectionist struggling to deal with a less than loving family, parents getting a divorce.  What humor there was went with the slightly absurd, but not unnatural situations they put themselves into.  It was not slapstick.

I may have missed something essential that turns it into a horrible movie instead of just a trying to be I am guessing a provocative, but kind of sweet and unsettled movie.  
 

Here is their fundraising page, that provides some of their motivation:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/seven-hundred-miles-a-post-coming-of-age-story#/

I find it rather sad that someone went and pulled out all the 'nasty' stuff and presented the film as a cesspool of behaviour when they were really trying to do something important and meaningful, dealing with mental health issues among college kids.

Thanks for the thorough review. This is why I have such a hard time feeling sympathy for people who demand standards of others that they have no intention of upholding themselves. Dehlin is hosting a forum filled with ugly, hateful comments while complaining about the same. It is as believable as claiming to be fearful about a violent video meme when he is the only one who is making it available. 

[juliann 13,183]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

Speaking of absurd....

Brought to my attention by a friend, John Dehlin's asked to go on Cardon Ellis' show and highly complimented both him and Kwaku...apparently this morning if I am reading the time stamp correctly.  The Tarentino meme was shared on Twitter sometime on the 4th, so before Dehlin's reached out.  But I don't know when he became aware of it.

 

Maybe it's the late hour but I'm laughing. Like I said, faux outrage. Actually, I think humorless Dehlin might be a little afraid to get into a meme war with a bright college kid with a limited sense of propriety. 

[juliann 13,183]

53 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Telling the poor dispatcher that 'at least two of the three are (as I understand it) employees and/or contractors of non-profits subsidized by the Mormon church' makes it abundantly clear that the intended audience for Mr Dehlin's stunt phone call is his devotees and not the police. 

It's a good fund raiser. 

[Hamba Tuhan 11,001]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

It's a good fund raiser. 

Yep, whether he actually even made the phone call or not. (Though he's certainly sanctimonious and self-centred enough not to realise how inappropriate it would be to make such a call.)

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm 40,649]

2 hours ago, juliann said:

Maybe it's the late hour but I'm laughing. Like I said, faux outrage. Actually, I think humorless Dehlin might be a little afraid to get into a meme war with a bright college kid with a limited sense of propriety. 

Can you imagine if somehow it got taken to court and Ellis casually mentions the request when testifying and the judge and prosecutor go “what!?!”.

[Calm 40,649]

15 hours ago, rongo said:

don't see anything "virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy" in anything he's done. 

How much have you watched of what he has done over the years?  I think one of the important things he is doing is opening up topics, creating the sense that it is okay to talk about it and there is no need to feel uncomfortable about some of the awkward or even tragic issues.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Calm

[NEDRA 16]

I haven’t added to any of the board conversations for years, but I pop in from time to time. I saw the original meme video at 5 am EST yesterday. The character depicted spoke in John Dehlin’s voice, saying: “Hi, I’m John Dehlin!”, then a few seconds in, his head was being bashed in with a baseball bat by those labeled TITS. 
 

I don’t understand how some people don’t see that as threatening. It would be unpleasant enough (and I guess would still make a point) if the label were “apostates” or “ex-Mormons” or “excommunicated podcasters.” However, an actual person whose public information is available is pinpointed, called out by name, his voice used, and his likeness brutalized. Is this not disturbing and distressing? 

Differences aside, can there not be an agreement that this is distasteful at best and frightening at worst? Who would like to see their head repeatedly whacked with a baseball bat as a form of entertainment or to make some ridiculous point?

Edited December 6, 2020 by NEDRA
Copy edit, changed “in” for “an”

[Calm 40,649]

17 hours ago, Lemuel said:

Well, at least we now know the TITS acronym was intentional.

How?  Did Kwaku say something or just from the labeling in the meme?  The meme was not created by either Cardon Ellis or Kwaku El. Cardon said he was unaware of them before he was shown it

Was the person who did the original meme part of the video crew?

What is stopping anyone, even Kwaku,  from picking up others’ usage post production?  Intentional use afterwards doesn’t mean intentionality prior to the release.

And by intentional....Are you suggesting that they came up with the acronym “TITS” and then looked for a title that would fit it and came up with the title, This is the Show, and then figured out they could justify it by connecting it to BY saying “This is the place!”?

Edited December 6, 2020 by Calm

[bluebell 27,755]

7 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You're referring to Quentin Tarantino and Universal Studios, I assume?

 

I wasn’t but I agree that one is as well. I had to watch it for a War in Film class when I was getting my history degree. I hated it. 

[juliann 13,183]

3 hours ago, NEDRA said:

I haven’t added to any of the board conversations for years, but I pop in from time to time. I saw the original meme video at 5 am EST yesterday. The character depicted spoke in John Dehlin’s voice, saying: “Hi, I’m John Dehlin!”, then a few seconds in, his head was being bashed in with a baseball bat by those labeled TITS. 
 

I don’t understand how some people don’t see that as threatening. It would be unpleasant enough (and I guess would still make a point) if the label were “apostates” or “ex-Mormons” or “excommunicated podcasters.” However, an actual person whose public information is available is pinpointed, called out by name, his voice used, and his likeness brutalized. Is this not disturbing and distressing? 

Differences aside, can there not be an agreement that this is distasteful at best and frightening at worst? Who would like to see their head repeatedly whacked with a baseball bat as a form of entertainment or to make some ridiculous point?

Can you please point out anyone who has approved of that awful video? Who are you lecturing?  

[Dan McClellan 490]

7 minutes ago, juliann said:

Can you please point out anyone who has approved of that awful video? Who are you lecturing?  

Clearly no one at FAIRMormon approved the creation of this video or Kwaku's sharing of it, but they've been directly contacted by numerous people over the last two days, including me, and have remained entirely and completely silent (apart from deleting comments on their Facebook page), which isn't a good look.

[juliann 13,183]

2 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

Clearly no one at FAIRMormon approved the creation of this video or Kwaku's sharing of it, but they've been directly contacted by numerous people over the last two days, including me, and have remained entirely and completely silent (apart from deleting comments on their Facebook page), which isn't a good look.

She was speaking directly to us, here. No one on this board has approved of that video. It’s a long thread so I’m going to assume she didn’t bother reading it before assuming. 
 

As to what is going on with anybody else, I don’t know. Silence doesn’t mean approval. I’d be surprised if FM doesn’t respond. Look how the situation has completely shifted only from yesterday, however. When it comes to this kind of stuff, waiting for all the information to settle might not be a bad idea. 
 

Meanwhile, I have to admit it has alleviated Covid boredom. Maybe that is why something so dumb has gotten so much attention. We have basically been had. But...good joint podcast by all the instigators coming up! Can’t wait....

[Tacenda 3,406]

11 hours ago, juliann said:

It's a good fund raiser. 

Good guess, someone on the FB Mormonstories private group is doing a fundraiser. But hey, fundraising happens on PBS, FairMormon, and even from the church's philanthropy arm. The fundraiser wasn't from John but someone in the group. And I've been tempted to comment to their comments about how awful the videos are, that the comments on exmormon reddit and Mormonstories FB group, have said some pretty awful stuff about the church as well. ETA again: Here's a post to FB Mormonstories group 3 hours ago. 

 

John Dehlin

Admin

  · 3h  · 

 

I want to ask a favor of the MSPC Community.

I'd like to ask you not to engage in personal attacks on any of the people who attack me or us.

Please remove or report any posts that violate these guidelines.

I'd like us to hold ourselves to a higher standard. I will work hard to do the same. Thanks!

John Dehlin

ETA: unable to use posts so I'm editing. Here's a c/p of a thread, pretty bad I think. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Tacenda

[Nevo 2,863]

FairMormon has already condoned superimposing John Dehlin's head onto a drawing of Satan, so I'm not sure where they're willing to draw the line at this point.

[rongo 5,525]

28 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

Clearly no one at FAIRMormon approved the creation of this video or Kwaku's sharing of it, but they've been directly contacted by numerous people over the last two days, including me, and have remained entirely and completely silent (apart from deleting comments on their Facebook page), which isn't a good look.

What you said here reminds me of an item I read in sermon notes in the Interpreter's Bible for Philippians. It quotes Winston Churchill in his book "The Gathering Storm," discussing how the indecisiveness of European powers in dealing with Hitler enabled him. Then, it paraphrases: "Decisions always have to be made before everything can be known, and before everything can be completely ready, for, as Churchill said, to wait too long 'was probably to wait until all was too late.' Indecision itself is a decision. It leaves conclusions to be drawn, and they will be drawn whether those who are indecisive want them to be or not. Churchill again: 'They go on in strange paradox, decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.' " (Interpreter's Bible 10:103).

This is so true. Indecision and inaction are themselves a decision and an action. I think the longer FAIR remains silent on the Kwaku stuff, it parallels BYU and the Church being completely radio silent on the gay dating/honor code blowup in the spring. There wasn't a peep for months, until Elder Paul Johnson (commissioner of Church education, if I remember right), finally said that gay dating should be discouraged, as it doesn't and can't lead to eternal marriage. The silence, and the length of time of the silence, made it much worse than it already was. 

[2BizE 119]

Now that Quacku and friends have made death threats to John Dehlin through Fairmormon, this directly shows  the church advocates violence. Thoughts?

[Dan McClellan 490]

3 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

Now that Quacku and friends have made death threats to John Dehlin through Fairmormon, this directly shows  the church advocates violence. Thoughts?

First, I don't think it's appropriate to mock Kwaku's name, and second, none of the people involved in those videos are agents of the Church. I'm far more an agent of the Church than they are. This is a lot more complex than "directly" showing anything at all about what the Church advocates. It does reflect very poorly on the judgment of FAIRMormon, but they do not take their orders from the Church in anything remotely approximating a direct, formal, or official capacity.

[juliann 13,183]

3 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

Now that Quacku and friends have made death threats to John Dehlin through Fairmormon, this directly shows  the church advocates violence. Thoughts?

Oh for heaven’s sakes. Now you are going to make up stuff after Dehlin deflated the balloon with his desire to do a podcast with the “talented” people who are going to kill him? 
 

Lying is never a good look. 

[juliann 13,183]

27 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Good guess, someone on the FB Mormonstories private group is doing a fundraiser. But hey, fundraising happens on PBS, FairMormon, and even from the church's philanthropy arm. 

By expressing fear of being beaten to death and calling the police on people before appealing to them to appear on their podcast? 

[Kenngo1969 7,565]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

How much have you watched of what he has done over the years?  I think one of the important things he is doing is opening up topics, creating the sense that it is okay to talk about it and there is no need to feel uncomfortable about some of the awkward or even tragic issues.

 

I'm glad you made that point because it deserves attention, and nobody paid attention to it when I brought it up earlier in the thread, so ...

[juliann 13,183]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

How much have you watched of what he has done over the years?  I think one of the important things he is doing is opening up topics, creating the sense that it is okay to talk about it and there is no need to feel uncomfortable about some of the awkward or even tragic issues.

 

His face seems familiar, but I was unaware of him until the ruckus over the FM videos. So my introduction to Kwaku was a stream of smears and what looks like to be  pretty much lies about his past. It was everything the critics complain about....but only when they aren't dispensing it themselves. So I hold to my original opinion that this has been a gross display of double standards and hypocrisy. There are no clean hands here and I've lost patience with it. Obviously.

[juliann 13,183]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

What you said here reminds me of an item I read in sermon notes in the Interpreter's Bible for Philippians. It quotes Winston Churchill in his book "The Gathering Storm," discussing how the indecisiveness of European powers in dealing with Hitler enabled him. Then, it paraphrases: "Decisions always have to be made before everything can be known, and before everything can be completely ready, for, as Churchill said, to wait too long 'was probably to wait until all was too late.' Indecision itself is a decision. It leaves conclusions to be drawn, and they will be drawn whether those who are indecisive want them to be or not. Churchill again: 'They go on in strange paradox, decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.' " (Interpreter's Bible 10:103).

This is so true. Indecision and inaction are themselves a decision and an action. I think the longer FAIR remains silent on the Kwaku stuff, it parallels BYU and the Church being completely radio silent on the gay dating/honor code blowup in the spring. There wasn't a peep for months, until Elder Paul Johnson (commissioner of Church education, if I remember right), finally said that gay dating should be discouraged, as it doesn't and can't lead to eternal marriage. The silence, and the length of time of the silence, made it much worse than it already was. 

I always think of Churchill and Hitler when I see a few 7 minute videos of questionable taste. Love ya, Rongo but a response two days ago would have to look a little different than a response yesterday. Perhaps a more apt comparison is the McKenna Denson disaster where every misgiving about her turned out to be true before her supporters assigned her to the dustbin and never mentioned her again.  

[Judd 423]

I think this kind of encapsulates my view of Dehlin’s abilities to scrutinize information, navigate situations, and respond accordingly:

Whatever one’s opinion regarding the meme, he didn’t just contact the local police department — he called emergency dispatch. He apparently felt it important to crowdsource the answer to the question as to whether or not he should call police, so I’m not certain there’s an argument to be made regarding the justification for utilizing emergency dispatch rather than the non-emergency line. But to top this off, he tells the poor individual fielding this emergency phone call that two people making threats belong to non-profits that are ‘subsidized by the Mormon church.’ Maybe he could have slipped in something about Book of Mormon historicity and a link to Mormon Stories, too, just to be thorough.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Judd