Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy

[Ipod Touch]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

This happened at his conferences from what has been reported. It doesn’t mean he supports them. Iirc, he stopped holding them for a short time out of concern. 

Thank you for the correction.

[juliann]

2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

In other words, Juliann, please do what you can to nip this nonsense in the bud. Don't let your years of contributions be spoiled by a "few college kids."

From where I sit, watching the hysteria, it appears that FM is doing quite well. I had no idea we were ever so powerful and influential.  Here is a reality check. All of this stuff happens in a very small bubble. Dehlin has had mulitple scandals. He survives. So will those who love the gospel and feel called to defend it. 

I will go back to my original objection to all this. The utter hypocrisy. If I was to do anything, it would be to encourage FM, seeing they are so rich now and all, to keep a record of the aggressions of their detractors for this new fun double standards game. 

Meanwhile, keep trying to make us care that MoreGood supports other likeminded orgs.

[Nemesis]

12 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

Thank you for the correction.

He had an affair with a woman that was on his foundations board before he dissolved the board so he can influence the foundation and funds more.   The fallout between them has been pretty ugly to watch over the years.
 

Nemesis

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

He had an affair with a woman that was on his foundations board before he dissolved the board so he can influence the foundation and funds more.   The fallout between them has been pretty ugly to watch over the years.
 

Nemesis

Please explain the affair, it wasn't sexual. 

[Nemesis]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Please explain the affair, it wasn't sexual. 

How do I explain the affair? Wasn’t mine to explain.   It is what it was.  Was it a spiritual affair? 

[bluebell]

55 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I answered you in the original post, I pointed you to that when you asked again, 

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73335-fair-mormons-new-youtube-branding-strategy/?do=findComment&comment=1210004097

and by the way Calm also reiterated my point herself.

If you follow my comments since entered the topic, I am talking about the church as the authoritarian institution:

There is a fundamental difference between what flows from a center of religious-social-political power and what flows from those who resist it. 

Any church-supported influencer merits more scrutiny because of that, simply because of the innate power of the church.

Please don't forget that church versus exmos are not equivalent opposing forces.

I've followed your comments.  I didn't understand your response because it seemed so obviously flawed that I didn't think it was your answer.  I see now that I misunderstood.  Thanks for clarifying.

[bluebell]

42 minutes ago, juliann said:

This board supports the church. Is it part of it's all powerful authoritarian machinary? 

Nemesis has been amazing, BTW. Maybe the software is free now but it didn't use to be and Nemesis has always refused to take donations (he took over the board after FM dropped it) That adds up over the years. Nemesis singlehandedly keeps this board going so people can come in and publish uninformed claims. 

I'm out of rep points but seriously people need to understand that without Nemesis and his money (because he's mentioned before it does cost money) this board wouldn't exist.

[smac97]

46 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

(1) The church helps support organisations which amplify people inciting violence

I invite you to reconsider this position.  It does not seem reasonable.  The Church is not responsible for everything I do, notwithstanding my affiliation with it.

John Dehlin is not responsible for everything Mike Norton does.

And the FAIR is not responsible for an in-very-poor-taste video which one guy posted, and for which Kwaku posted a link on his private Twitter feed.

46 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

and (2)Mormon Stories, inasmuch as it hosts Mike Norton, amplifies his violent rhetoric are specific, clearly connected situations.

They are not.  As execrable as I find Mike Norton, I don't blame John Dehlin for everything he has ever done.  That is unreasonable.

46 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

If LHP aided or hid abuse by Tom Kimball, she did something wrong. As far as I know, she did neither. 

How do you differentiate "aided" from "amplified"?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited December 7, 2020 by smac97

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

How do I explain the affair? Wasn’t mine to explain.   It is what it was.  Was it a spiritual affair? 

I'm not condoning his behavior I just wanted it known that it wasn't sexual according to my readings. I was strongly disgusted with John when I read rumors. I searched it out and it didn't go as far to call it adultery. But maybe he lusted in his heart and according to Jimmy Carter that is the same thing, lol.  

I know their marriage suffered greatly, I know my marriage would as well. John profusely apologized. But that was the day I started to have a lot less respect for the guy. Luckily their marriage is as strong or stronger than ever.

But I guess that's why there is forgiveness out there. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Tacenda

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

The church helps support organisations which amplify people inciting violence

You make it sound like it is part of the four fold mission of the Church.
 

There was no intent on the part of FM to incite violence. There is no violence on the TS videos, something that is obviously not being made clear by Dehlin and others given the emails FM is receiving. 
 

Neither was there and incitement which requires intent on the part of Kwaku, Cardon, and iirc the originator of that meme. That violence might be a byproduct is likely not something the vast majority of people who use those types of memes think any more than the producers of the movies where they get the memes from.  (How many actors actually get attacked after people see them being attacked in movies?  Not enough to stop actors from signing up for the parts they get tortured or killed on screen.)
 

However, there does need to be recognition that surrounding oneself with violent images is not wise. But this is a knowledge that most often comes with experience and watching what happens to others, especially children when exposed.  I need to check the latest research to see what it says in terms of effects of onscreen violence in movies and video games, but I don’t think actual violence is a common result.  There are other effects, I believe. 
 

As soon as there was a FM  member who had contact with Kwaku was aware of the meme, they contacted him and he pulled it down. Since we do not own Twitter, he had to contact Kwaku and ask him to do so...my impression is he happily did.

 It was probably pretty quick too as iirc by the time I had a chance to click on the meme from a report by a FM member, it was already removed.  
 

I don’t see how you can make the connection that violence was incited when neither the Church, FM, Kwaku and Cardon and as far as I know the originator as well as even Quentin Tarantino himself I am guessing had the intent and in the first two cases even the awareness that it had happened. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Calm

[Nemesis]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

You make it sound like it is part of the four fold mission of the Church.
 

There was no intent on the part of FM to incite violence. There is no violence on the TS videos, something that is obviously not being made clear by Dehlin and others given the emails FM is receiving. 
 

Neither was there and incitement which requires intent on the part of Kwaku, Cardon, and iirc Brad the originator of that meme. That violence might be a byproduct is likely not something the vast majority of people who use those types of memes any more than the producers of the movies where they get the memes from. 
 

However, there does need to be recognition that surrounding oneself with violent images is not wise. But this is a knowledge that most often comes with experience and watching what happens to others, especially children when exposed. 
 

As soon as there was a FM  member who had contact with Kwaku was aware of the meme, they contacted him and he pulled it down. Since we do not own Twitter, he had to contact Kwaku and ask him to do so...my impression is he happily did.

 It was probably pretty quick too as iirc by the time I had a chance to click on the meme from a report by a FM member, it was already removed.  
 

I don’t see how you can make the connection that violence was incited when neither the Church, FM, Kwaku and Cardon and as far as I know Brad as well as even Quentin Tarantino himself I am guessing had the intent and in the first two cases even the awareness that it had happened. 

Meadowchick must has missed the pinned thread at the top of the forum.  Maybe the church needs a pinned topic like that also. 

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Please explain the affair, it wasn't sexual. 

There was something more according to her. I can write you privately if you want to know the details or post a link, but it is between the two of them. Do you really want to spend your time looking into it?

[Tacenda]

Just now, Calm said:

There was something more according to her. I can write you privately if you want to know the details or post a link, but it is between the two of them. Do you really want to spend your time looking into it?

I guess not. Thanks! 

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm out of rep points but seriously people need to understand that without Nemesis and his money (because he's mentioned before it does cost money) this board wouldn't exist.

Couldn’t find a simple applause smilie, so this is the stand in for three of those. 

[Bob Crockett]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Before or after his apostasy?  Because he was asked to leave when he started criticizing the Church.  Any connection Bill claimed after that was false. We have removed any material he contributed to remove any perceived connection. 

Long before.  When he was posting on this board.  Anybody could see his major criticisms.  

[Rain]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I'm out of rep points but seriously people need to understand that without Nemesis and his money (because he's mentioned before it does cost money) this board wouldn't exist.

Yep. Domain name, security, picture optimizing/hosting, spam stuff, privacy policies...

A domain is cheap, but then when you start adding everything needed especially with all the troublemakers attacking websites it can add up.

And really, if it were only time, it can be a lot of work.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Rain

[juliann]

Besides the double standards and full out hypocrisy, another thing of interest to me is watching what church critics truly support. For example, Dehlin has burned his bridges with Mofems among others.  It will be interesting to see if those who have called him out will maintain their principles or begin defending someone who is claiming victimhood while asking to be on the podcast of those he says have made him fear for his life. What will prevail? Their standards or their hate of the church.

This isn't merely a matter of a violent video anymore. It is the alleged victim trying to get on podcasts of those he claims are inciting violence.....after tying up 911 lines. One can only defend his behavior by maintaining a bogus narrative. 

[Calm]

59 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

In other words, Juliann, please do what you can to nip this nonsense in the bud. Don't let your years of contributions be spoiled by a "few college kids."

FM immediately asked Kwaku to remove the meme. He did as well as Cardon. He also asked the originator to remove it. Cardon has stated he does not condone violence.  I haven’t seen it myself, but so believe Kwaku has as well. 

A statement is being prepared that includes ‘do not condone violence’.

What else are you demanding we do, Meadowchik?

 John Dehlin is the only one promoting it now. Is he inciting violence in your view?

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Calm

[Bob Crockett]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

FM immediately asked Kwaku to remove the meme. He did as well as Cardon. He also asked the originator to remove it. Cardon has stated he does not condone violence.  I haven’t seen it myself, but so believe Kwaku has as well. 
 

 John Dehlin is the only one promoting it now. Is he inciting violence in your view?

 

I remember when Cardon snuck a knife through TSA security and bragged about it. There's a character in the LDS Pantheon.

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Long before.  When he was posting on this board.  Anybody could see his major criticisms.  

Must be nice to be all knowing.   

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I remember when Cardon snuck a knife through TSA security and bragged about it.

It has been mentioned on this thread at least once.
 

So everyone who carries a pocket knife is violent or inciting violence?

I am not a fan of such behavior breaking the law. I think he should have been fined for it.  But there is a difference between acting stupid and being violent. 
 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Calm

[Nevo]

33 minutes ago, Calm said:

Neither was there and incitement which requires intent on the part of Kwaku, Cardon, and iirc Brad the originator of that meme.   
...

I don’t see how you can make the connection that violence was incited when neither the Church, FM, Kwaku and Cardon and as far as I know Brad as well as even Quentin Tarantino himself I am guessing had the intent and in the first two cases even the awareness that it had happened. 

Just to clarify, the meme was originated by a kid named Braden. I won't give his last name because I don't think he should be hounded for the rest of his life about this lapse in judgment. Brad Witbeck, the other host of This Is the Show, had nothing to do with it. His Twitter feed is pretty innocuous, actually. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Nevo

[Ipod Touch]

51 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Please explain the affair, it wasn't sexual. 

Ask Rosebud.  She has insinuated for years that the affair was indeed sexual.  She also explains how JD has subsequently gaslighted and abused her and has done everything he can to tear down her reputation in the exmo community.

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, Rain said:

Yep. Domain name, security, picture optimizing/hosting, spam stuff, privacy policies...

A domain is cheap, but the when you start adding everything needed especially with all the troublemakers attacking websites it can add up.

And really, if it were only time, it can be a lot of work.

Exactly.  

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Nevo said:

Just to clarify, the meme was originated by a kid named Braden. I won't give his last name because I don't think he should be hounded for the rest of his life about this lapse in judgment. Brad Witbeck, the other host of This Is the Show, had nothing to do with it. His Twitter feed is pretty innocuous, actually. 

Good to know.