Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Dan McClellan said:

Clearly no one at FAIRMormon approved the creation of this video or Kwaku's sharing of it, but they've been directly contacted by numerous people over the last two days, including me, and have remained entirely and completely silent (apart from deleting comments on their Facebook page), which isn't a good look.

Response is coming, it is the weekend and these people are being flooded by questions and demands and compliments even and they don’t get paid a dime for their time for anything they do, whether responding, research, conversing with so many that want to be heard immediately.

From what I am seeing both Scott and John have likely put in at least 4 hours every day since this started...and that is only what I have seen, so more likely 8 or more given how the iceberg of their work usually goes. 
 

Please be patient.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, rongo said:

There wasn't a peep for months,

It was two weeks

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/community/higher-education/byu-clarifies-updated-honor-code-after-same-sex-relationship-misinterpretation/article_2a03df77-c8e0-51d2-b71e-067fa730d3b2.html

[Kenngo1969]

37 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

... John calling the cops is the biggest boomer move I've seen in a long time.

So, now, they could use a clip of Mr. Dehlin talking about calling the cops and say, "OK, Boomer!"  Man, sometimes, these things just write themselves!

[Kenngo1969]

17 minutes ago, juliann said:

So you think FM is supposed to monitor the twitter and FB feeds of everyone who has ever done something for them? Wouldn't that be a little...creepy? Any comment should be about their own stuff.

Not to mention, umm, impossible?!

[Calm]

6 hours ago, 2BizE said:

Now that Quacku and friends have made death threats to John Dehlin through Fairmormon, this directly shows  the church advocates violence. Thoughts?

It wasn’t through FM. Does misrepresenting what happen help resolve problems?
 

FM did not host the original meme nor was it made by anyone vaguely connected with FM. Kwaku, who is not a member of FM, but has partnered with us on this project, retweeted it as did Cardon Ellis, also not a member of FM, but a partner in these videos. 
 

FM had no power to do anything beyond asking it be taken down, but I believe it was already taken down when we learned of it or shortly there after. 

The Church does not vet what we do, btw, (as should be obvious from these videos, lol) so I see no logic in assuming our actions automatically mean the Church condones whatever, indirectly, let alone directly.

We do not advocate violence. Never have, never will. Please do not lie about us. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Calm

[Judd]

53 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The way social media works is that if you share something (without commenting otherwise), you are endorsing what you share.

So if they thought it was funny, and knew what they were referencing when they said TITS, but they themselves didn’t intend to name the show that, they never would have retweeted it?

If a church leader retweets an interview or article that makes reference in it to being a Mormon, does that mean they approve of the name again?

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm glad you made that point because it deserves attention, and nobody paid attention to it when I brought it up earlier in the thread, so ...

Not sure it will get attention now.   

[Calm]

2 hours ago, cinepro said:

I love how TITS took all the conversations and defenses of the last few days

Just to be clear...the people who did the This Show videos only retweeted the meme, they did not create it. Cardon states he did not see it or knew of its existence until it was online. I assume the same goes for Kwaku based on how the Twitterverse works to the best of my knowledge, but I could be wrong.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

I've looked (though, I admit, not very vigorously) for some kind of statement from FAIR about the video, since it was retweeted by someone closely associated with them.

I have to admit that I'm puzzled at my lack of success.

While they didn't make the video, they don't seem to be anxious to dissociate themselves from it.

Oh my gosh, people are killing themselves trying to deal with the flood of responses and demands. You guys have no idea. They were up talking even in the middle of the night when it is usually just me posting anything (due to my insomnia). I got to bed before they did and they were up long before me. 
 

I am having a lot more sympathy now for when the Church is slow in responding and their PR people get paid where the ones FM has dealing with this are not. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

John said in a YouTube video posted today about the whole mess, if you want to check it out, that his family has been threatene

Before or after he called the cops?

It is not like he’s not doing anything to escalate the situation like tell people to verbally attack a popular young man, and spending hours himself doing the same. 
 

I do not approve of any death threats or threats of violence in general (and neither does anyone at FM), but Dehlin is hugely responsible for creating this mess by promoting overreaction big time while trying to promote himself imo.

——

Quote

Everyone needs to put themselves in his shoes for a minute, and picture your own name on the guy that is getting his head bashed in, think how it would feel.

How many people would be calling up to hang out with the guys they claim they feel threatened by and adding how much they respect them?

Edited December 7, 2020 by Calm

[Nemesis]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Before or after he called the cops?

It is not like he’s not doing anything to escalate the situation like tell people to verbally attack a popular young man, and spending hours himself doing the same. 
 

I do not approve of any death threats or threats of violence in general (and neither does anyone at FM), but Dehlin is hugely responsible for creating this mess by promoting overreaction big time while trying to promote himself imo.

You know anytime John is a topic it’s going to be way over dramatic and long lasting.  It does his business model good. He can sit there all day and night actively fanning flames because it’s his job to do so.  Boomer/Karen/Ken all those memes fit.  

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, Ipod Touch said:

In reality, what is the worst that happens here?  Banned from Twitter and YouTube?  And that probably more due to copyright infringement more than anything else.  No serious person believes that this video was an actual threat.  It's a joke.  A stupid joke, but a joke.

John calling the cops is the biggest boomer move I've seen in a long time.

You and I are both speaking about this hypothetically. We are both participating under aliases. Life is good.

I'm not fan of Dehlin. I've been critical of him for 20 years. I think he's a dunderheaded doofus. I think his interviews are meandering and oftentimes filled with non-sequiturs.

But I can only imagine the feeling of seeing a video of an actor labeled "(insert cinepro's real name)" brutally clubbed to death.

Maybe that's no big deal to others. I think it's a big deal.

[cinepro]

31 minutes ago, Judd said:

So if they thought it was funny, and knew what they were referencing when they said TITS, but they themselves didn’t intend to name the show that, they never would have retweeted it?

If a church leader retweets an interview or article that makes reference in it to being a Mormon, does that mean they approve of the name again?

The Church leader would certainly be acknowledging that the term "Mormon" is understood to apply to whatever it was discussing.

Edited December 7, 2020 by cinepro

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

Cinepro. Get your facts straight!  FM didn't retweet anything. Go after them for what they did, not what a couple of kids did on their own twitter feed. 

You are factually correct.

Unfortunately, the facts don't support the perception. If Kwaku and Cardon had never retweeted and tacitly approved of the video, you'd be correct. It was some lone nutball who got a little carried away. So good for you, you've got the facts on your side. Unfortunately, this is the internet, and the facts aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The only thing that is important is perception.

And the perception is that Cardon and Kwaku work to represent FAIR in some capacity. Part of that may be because FAIR has been posting their videos under the FAIR name. You and I might understand the nuances of content creation, independent contractors, work-for-hire, subbrands, re-tweets and plausible deniability.

But this is the first thing people see on the video that was promoted by the same people that are making the videos mentioned in the meme.



So if you're offering a preview of FAIR's defense ("It wasn't us - we would never do that!"), then I'll save FAIR the effort and let them know that's weak sauce.

And to be clear, I am going after FAIR for what they did. They hitched their cart to content creators that are going to burn the brand down to the ground.

Edited December 7, 2020 by cinepro

[Kenngo1969]

37 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

... Boomer/Karen/Ken all those memes fit.  [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.]

Ummm ... I beg your pardon?!!    

[Nemesis]

9 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Ummm ... I beg your pardon?!!    

Hey man I didn’t name you!

Nemesis

[juliann]

21 minutes ago, cinepro said:

You are factually correct.

Unfortunately, the facts don't support the perception. If Kwaku and Cardon had never retweeted and tacitly approved of the video, you'd be correct. It was some lone nutball who got a little carried away. So good for you, you've got the facts on your side. Unfortunately, this is the internet, and the facts aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The only thing that is important is perception.

And the perception is that Cardon and Kwaku work to represent FAIR in some capacity. Part of that may be because FAIR has been posting their videos under the FAIR name. You and I might understand the nuances of content creation, independent contractors, work-for-hire, subbrands, re-tweets and plausible deniability.

But this is the first thing people see on the video that was promoted by the same people that are making the videos mentioned in the meme.



So if you're offering a preview of FAIR's defense ("It wasn't us - we would never do that!"), then I'll save FAIR the effort and let them know that's weak sauce.

And to be clear, I am going after FAIR for what they did. They hitched their cart to content creators that are going to burn the brand down to the ground.

I’m not offering anything but what I think. Like everybody else. The perception, as you call it, is fake news. Yet you are advocating it be treated as  fact rather than corrected, something you call a defense, if I’m understanding you. 

I doubt this will burn down anybody’s brand. I know a lot of people are trying to make that happen by maintaining the hypocritical hysteria level. But FM has been through worse. The Utah Lighthouse lady sued for all its assets over a parody site, which would have included its name. FM didn’t do the parody then, either. The 10th circuit court wasn’t even impressed by the attempt to pull in a third party into the dastardly deed, Cinepro. 
 

I don’t know why those videos weren’t vetted, I don’t know what FM is going to do about it. Now that I’ve had more time to reflect on the videos, I think the concept has promise. I’d recommend not using names, of course, and do more Of the self mockery Mormons excel at. I watched the short Kinderhook video and laughed at the plates expressing gratitude that her great grandson, the CES letter, had done far better than she ever did. It was funny and there’s a place for that. In fact, Mormons are some of the funniest people I know. 

[Kenngo1969]

54 minutes ago, cinepro said:

You and I are both speaking about this hypothetically. We are both participating under aliases. Life is good.

I'm not fan of Dehlin. I've been critical of him for 20 years. I think he's a dunderheaded doofus. I think his interviews are meandering and oftentimes filled with non-sequiturs.

But I can only imagine the feeling of seeing a video of an actor labeled "(insert cinepro's real name)" brutally clubbed to death.

Maybe that's no big deal to others. I think it's a big deal.

Perhaps, but, then, ought one not make too big of a deal out of something of which one should not make too big of a deal.  I'm not condoning what Kwaku and Co. did, but, of his own choice, Mr. Dehlin has made himself a public figure.  A lot of public figures wish to court publicity and celebrity when it suits them, while, on the other hand, they wish to remain free to shun publicity and celebrity when it does not suit them.  That isn't the way it works.  Again, while I'm not condoning what Kwaku & Co. did, Mr. Dehlin, of his own choice, is not a public figure but ... Mr. Dehlin, of his own choice, is a public figure period.

[juliann]

Has anyone seen the critic sites acknowledging Dehlin’s secret texts to the man he called 911 mere minutes/hours later? 

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

You know anytime John is a topic it’s going to be way over dramatic and long lasting.  It does his business model good. He can sit there all day and night actively fanning flames because it’s his job to do so.  Boomer/Karen/Ken all those memes fit.  [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.]

 

33 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Ummm ... I beg your pardon?!!    

 

23 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

Hey man I didn’t name you!

Nemesis

No, that's true.  No, you didn't.  My mother, however, has me pegged: Kenneth is of Celtic origin, and it means "handsome."  

P.S.: My mother is an amazing woman in many respects.  However, having the prescience to say, "Nope!  Better not use that one!  50 years from now, it's going to become a stupid ... well, it'll become something called a meme, on something called the Internet," isn't one of them!  

Edited December 7, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[Nemesis]

3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

No, that's true.  No, you didn't.  My mother, however, has me pegged: Kenneth is of Celtic origin, and it means "handsome."  

Mine means retribution and vengeance.  Guess our mothers had it in for us.  
 

Nemesis 

[juliann]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

Maybe that's no big deal to others. I think it's a big deal.

Yup, we have all showered praise on it. Yup. Over and over. There is, in fact, nothing but loving posts about that awesome video. Not one person has said it is disgusting. Nope, not one. We are so grateful Dehlin has preserved it on his own site after it disappeared so we can watch it over and over. 

[cinepro]

35 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Perhaps, but, then, ought one not make too big of a deal out of something of which one should not make too big of a deal.  I'm not condoning what Kwaku and Co. did, but, of his own choice, Mr. Dehlin has made himself a public figure.  A lot of public figures wish to court publicity and celebrity when it suits them, while, on the other hand, they wish to remain free to shun publicity and celebrity when it does not suit them.  That isn't the way it works.  Again, while I'm not condoning what Kwaku & Co. did, Mr. Dehlin, of his own choice, is not a public figure but ... Mr. Dehlin, of his own choice, is a public figure period.

My objection to the Basterds video wasn't based on the assumption that Dehlin was a private individual and should have special protections from ridicule.

My objection is based on the assumption (fact?) that he is a human being.

Edited December 7, 2020 by cinepro

[juliann]

7 minutes ago, cinepro said:

My objection to the Basterds video wasn't based on the assumption that Dehlin was a private individual and should have special protections from ridicule.
 

He very obviously thinks he should. His job is to dispense it not receive it. 
 

Meanwhile, can someone start a new thread to do nothing but condemn that despicable meme (not to mention the movie)? I’ll make the first entry.  Then we can all put a link in our tag lines and keep this thread open for discussion rather than board nannying. Getting old....

[ttribe]

50 minutes ago, juliann said:

I’m not offering anything but what I think. Like everybody else. The perception, as you call it, is fake news. Yet you are advocating it be treated as  fact rather than corrected, something you call a defense, if I’m understanding you. 

I doubt this will burn down anybody’s brand. I know a lot of people are trying to make that happen by maintaining the hypocritical hysteria level. But FM has been through worse. The Utah Lighthouse lady sued for all its assets over a parody site, which would have included its name. FM didn’t do the parody then, either. The 10th circuit court wasn’t even impressed by the attempt to pull in a third party into the dastardly deed, Cinepro. 
 

I don’t know why those videos weren’t vetted, I don’t know what FM is going to do about it. Now that I’ve had more time to reflect on the videos, I think the concept has promise. I’d recommend not using names, of course, and do more Of the self mockery Mormons excel at. I watched the short Kinderhook video and laughed at the plates expressing gratitude that her great grandson, the CES letter, had done far better than she ever did. It was funny and there’s a place for that. In fact, Mormons are some of the funniest people I know. 

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I submit Exhibit 14 in support of the notion that some defenders will literally defend anything. In short, the ends justify the means and principles are far less important than winning.