Jesus Christ Will One Day Return

[marineland]

This is from Lesson 25 (Religion 250 manual).

I had a question about these sections.

111 - “Of [the parable of the ten virgins], the Lord said, ‘And at that day, when I shall
come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins’ 
(D&C 45:56).

“Given in the 25th chapter of Matthew, this parable contrasts the circumstances of the five 
foolish and the five wise virgins. All ten were invited to the wedding feast, but only half 
of them were prepared with oil in their lamps when the bridegroom came. The five who were 
prepared went into the marriage feast, and the door was shut. The five who had delayed their 
preparations came late. The door had been closed, and the Lord denied them entrance, saying, 
‘I know you not’ [Matthew 25:12]. ‘Watch therefore,’ the Savior concluded, ‘for ye know 
neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh’ [Matthew 25:13].

“The arithmetic of this parable is chilling. The ten virgins obviously represent members of 
Christ’s Church, for all were invited to the wedding feast and all knew what was required to 
be admitted when the bridegroom came. But only half were ready when he came” (Dallin H. Oaks,
“Preparation for the Second Coming,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2004, 8).

112 - This precious oil is acquired one drop at a time—‘line upon line [and] precept upon
precept’ (2 Nephi 28:30), patiently and persistently. No shortcut is available; no last-minute 
flurry of preparation is possible” (David A. Bednar, "Converted unto the Lord,” Ensign or 
Liahona, Nov. 2012, 109).

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage
Supper of the Lamb?

Tony

[longview]

1 hour ago, marineland said:

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage
Supper of the Lamb?

If we were to include in the total population the following:

• "Jack Mormons"
• those that were "offended" out of the Church
• cultural members
• lost sheep due to circumstances beyond their control
• those that were deceived by the deceptions of the devil
• plus several more categories of inactives that others might come up with

Thus the total population could be significantly greater than what we would call the "official" membership.  So we could have more than 50% of the "official" membership that will be permitted to attend the feast.  This shows the loving and kind mercies of the Lord.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, marineland said:

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage
Supper of the Lamb?

Tony

No, only five.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, marineland said:

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage
Supper of the Lamb?

Tony?

No. Parables exist to teach true principles, not to provide statistical probabilities. Wrest any good scriptures lately? How about this one:

Matthew 7:21 -- Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Kind of demolishes the arguments of those who claim that all you need to be saved is to confess Jesus with your mouth.

The parable you cite is a close cousin of Matt. 7:21. You were invited, but were you ready? There are other parables along the same theme. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, marineland said:

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage
Supper of the Lamb?

Why did you make the subject "Jesus Christ Will One Day Return"? I don't believe the parable you cite restricts itself to the last days.

[katherine the great]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

No, only five.

Lol! And all five are virgins. 

[marineland]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Why did you make the subject "Jesus Christ Will One Day Return"? I don't believe the parable you cite restricts itself to the last days.

The Seminaries and Institutes of Religion Curriculum Services picked the title for that chapter. The parable
cited was applied to the Second Coming of Christ.

[carbon dioxide]

5 hours ago, marineland said:

This is from Lesson 25 (Religion 250 manual).

I had a question about these sections.

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage
Supper of the Lamb?

Tony

I doubt the meaning is exactly 50%.  It could be 30% or 75%.  The teaching of the parable is what is important.  One must be prepared before the 2nd Coming. Whether it happens in our lifetime or not. We should act as if it will be for our personal salvation.  Waiting to the last minute is too late.  

[bluebell]

If you consider the number of inactive members alone, 50% of Latter-day Saints being prepared for the second coming of the Lord is probably high. 

[strappinglad]

We probably shouldn't assume that the only people prepared for the Lord's feast are LDS. There is another parable about feasts and some of the invitees not coming so folks from the streets are invited. 

[InCognitus]

57 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If you consider the number of inactive members alone, 50% of Latter-day Saints being prepared for the second coming of the Lord is probably high. 

I always considered the statistics of the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3-9, 18-23) to be realistic in this regard.  There are four soil types (or situations) mentioned in the parable:  (1) The wayside, or the people who don't understand the word of the kingdom and reject it outright, (2) the stony places, the people who hear the word with joy and receive it but don't have deep roots and are ultimately offended by it because of persecution or hardships, (3) the thorny soil, the people who hear the word and receive it but get caught up in riches or the things of the world and are unfruitful, and finally (4) the good ground, those who hear the word and receive it and understand it, and they bear fruit, some one hundred fold, some sixty, and some thirty fold.

Of the 3 types that represent people who hear the gospel and receive it, one of those goes inactive or exits the church, another one doesn't bear fruit at all (they may or may not be active in the church), and of the remaining "good soil", they bear fruit at different capacities depending on their commitment (I assume).  And based on my past experience as a ward clerk and having to compile statistics on attendance and temple recommend holders in a ward, this parable reflects reality quite well.

Edited November 29, 2020 by InCognitus

[Stargazer]

4 hours ago, marineland said:

The Seminaries and Institutes of Religion Curriculum Services picked the title for that chapter. The parable
cited was applied to the Second Coming of Christ.

Ah, got it.

[pogi]

5 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Lol! And all five are virgins. 

Hey @Kenngo1969, you have a shot!

+1 for virgins, again. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by pogi

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, strappinglad said:

We probably shouldn't assume that the only people prepared for the Lord's feast are LDS. There is another parable about feasts and some of the invitees not coming so folks from the streets are invited. 

But all must meet the same requirements, regardless of point of origin.  That same parable you reference is clear on that.

Edited November 29, 2020 by JLHPROF

[RevTestament]

13 hours ago, InCognitus said:

I always considered the statistics of the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3-9, 18-23) to be realistic in this regard.  There are four soil types (or situations) mentioned in the parable:  (1) The wayside, or the people who don't understand the word of the kingdom and reject it outright, (2) the stony places, the people who hear the word with joy and receive it but don't have deep roots and are ultimately offended by it because of persecution or hardships, (3) the thorny soil, the people who hear the word and receive it but get caught up in riches or the things of the world and are unfruitful, and finally (4) the good ground, those who hear the word and receive it and understand it, and they bear fruit, some one hundred fold, some sixty, and some thirty fold.

Of the 3 types that represent people who hear the gospel and receive it, one of those goes inactive or exits the church, another one doesn't bear fruit at all (they may or may not be active in the church), and of the remaining "good soil", they bear fruit at different capacities depending on their commitment (I assume).  And based on my past experience as a ward clerk and having to compile statistics on attendance and temple recommend holders in a ward, this parable reflects reality quite well.

Yeshua directly alludes the parable of the sower to the kingdom of heaven. The seed on the wayside is the telestial kingdom, which is the furthest from God. The unfruitful seed in the rocks and thorns are those misled because of the world, which is the terrestrial kingdom, and the last is the celestial kingdom - the doers of the word in which there is three levels granted to those who yield 30, 60 or 100 fold.

[Maidservant]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:27 AM, marineland said:

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage

Supper of the Lamb?

Tony

Most numbers in the scriptures are symbolic. Are you Christian? Does it mean 50 percent of Christians? Or 50 percent of humanity? Or is there something more important to be gained from it? It's possible the number doesn't matter at all here, simply the binary of prepared-not prepared. Not all LDS are permanently stuck in scripture interpretation kindergarten.

 

On 11/28/2020 at 11:06 AM, CV75 said:

No, only five.

 

On 11/28/2020 at 2:18 PM, katherine the great said:

Lol! And all five are virgins. 

I mean, that's what it says in the scriptures. 🙄

[marineland]

On 11/30/2020 at 7:46 PM, Maidservant said:

Most numbers in the scriptures are symbolic. Are you Christian? Does it mean 50 percent of Christians? Or 50 percent of humanity? Or is there something more important to be gained from it? It's possible the number doesn't matter at all here, simply the binary of prepared-not prepared.

I am Christian, but not a member of your church.  When I read that article, it says the ten
virgins are members of Christ's church (which I assume is only the LDS Church from other
church teachings).

Based on these words, it seems to be a literal 50%.

“The arithmetic of this parable is chilling. The ten virgins obviously represent members of 
Christ’s Church, for all were invited to the wedding feast and all knew what was required to 
be admitted when the bridegroom came. But only half were ready when he came” (Dallin H. Oaks,
“Preparation for the Second Coming,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2004, 8).

[pogi]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:27 AM, marineland said:

Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage
Supper of the Lamb?

1 hour ago, marineland said:

Based on these words, it seems to be a literal 50%.

“The arithmetic of this parable is chilling. The ten virgins obviously represent members of 
Christ’s Church, for all were invited to the wedding feast and all knew what was required to 
be admitted when the bridegroom came. But only half were ready when he came” (Dallin H. Oaks,
“Preparation for the Second Coming,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2004, 8).

Is the arithmetic a prophecy or a parable of what could be if we aren't prepared? 

I propose it is more likely the second as the Lord concluded in the parable:

Quote

 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh
[Matthew 25:13].

I don't think Elder Oaks was explicitly stating that this is what will be. 
 

 

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, marineland said:

I am Christian, but not a member of your church.  When I read that article, it says the ten
virgins are members of Christ's church (which I assume is only the LDS Church from other
church teachings).

Based on these words, it seems to be a literal 50%.

“The arithmetic of this parable is chilling. The ten virgins obviously represent members of 
Christ’s Church, for all were invited to the wedding feast and all knew what was required to 
be admitted when the bridegroom came. But only half were ready when he came” (Dallin H. Oaks,
“Preparation for the Second Coming,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2004, 8).

Christ’s church is not just members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 

[Maidservant]

4 hours ago, marineland said:

I am Christian, but not a member of your church.  When I read that article, it says the ten
virgins are members of Christ's church (which I assume is only the LDS Church from other
church teachings).

Based on these words, it seems to be a literal 50%.

“The arithmetic of this parable is chilling. The ten virgins obviously represent members of 
Christ’s Church, for all were invited to the wedding feast and all knew what was required to 
be admitted when the bridegroom came. But only half were ready when he came” (Dallin H. Oaks,
“Preparation for the Second Coming,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2004, 8).

A church leader quote can be found for everything within two hundred years of speeches.

I read the scriptures and come to my own understanding. I can find a quote for that, too.

As far as I can tell from this quote (without reading the whole speech), I think Elder Oaks' point is that preparation is real, not just getting a ticket for being in the (so-called) right Church (or whatever token).

P.S. You don't even have to be Christian to be prepared.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Maidservant

[Ahab]

And in that day there will be COVID and many will take the sacrament in their own homes while watching those who are at the feast via some social media app.

[TheTanakas]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:07 PM, bluebell said:

Christ’s church is not just members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 

That's not true according to a teaching by our First Presidency

"This is the true Church, the only true Church, because in it are the keys of the 
priesthood. Only in this Church has the Lord lodged the power to seal on earth and 
to seal in heaven as He did in the time of the Apostle Peter."

Pete

[bluebell]

11 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

That's not true according to a teaching by our First Presidency

"This is the true Church, the only true Church, because in it are the keys of the 
priesthood. Only in this Church has the Lord lodged the power to seal on earth and 
to seal in heaven as He did in the time of the Apostle Peter."

Pete

That statement doesn’t contradict what I said.

There are people who belong to the church of the Lamb who are not members (yet) and people who belong to the church of the devil who are members. As Stephen Robinson taught in his article in the Ensign, it’s about who has your heart, not who has your membership.  There are true followers of Christ who aren’t members yet.  

[The Nehor]

On 12/7/2020 at 5:09 PM, marineland said:

I am Christian, but not a member of your church.  When I read that article, it says the ten
virgins are members of Christ's church (which I assume is only the LDS Church from other
church teachings).

Based on these words, it seems to be a literal 50%.

“The arithmetic of this parable is chilling. The ten virgins obviously represent members of 
Christ’s Church, for all were invited to the wedding feast and all knew what was required to 
be admitted when the bridegroom came. But only half were ready when he came” (Dallin H. Oaks,
“Preparation for the Second Coming,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2004, 8).

I think he was using the arithmetic as a warning and not as a literal truth. I am a pessimist and think half may be too high. I put myself in the "dubious" category.

Edited December 9, 2020 by The Nehor

[Ahab]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

That statement doesn’t contradict what I said.

There are people who belong to the church of the Lamb who are not members (yet) and people who belong to the church of the devil who are members. As Stephen Robinson taught in his article in the Ensign, it’s about who has your heart, not who has your membership.  There are true followers of Christ who aren’t members yet.  

No.  There are true Christians/disciples of Jesus Christ who are not members of his church (yet?) but there are no people who belong to the church of the Lamb who are not members of his church.