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6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

That is what I would expect, actually.

The science fiction author Greg Bear wrote a novel, Moving Mars, in which he used as a premise the work of an obscure physicist of many decades past to posit being able to move actual physical objects (such as a planet) light-years away instantaneously. I once asked him where he got this idea from, and he told me, but I don't remember and lost the email long ago. It's a bit involved to explain, but it actually makes sense from a certain point of view.

Did it have something to do with multi-dimensional folding of space?

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1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Now if we could just remove the "fiction" stigma we would be able to see how to do it.

We don't remove the word fiction we add non to it, thus it becomes comes nonfiction. These things have to be dreamed of first. 

Edited by rodheadlee
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38 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

We don't remove the word fiction we add non to it, thus it becomes comes nonfiction. These things have to be dreamed of first. 

Tell that to people who just say science shows such and such, rather than science non-fiction shows such and such.  Science is regarded as a tool we use to figure things out through research and investigation.  

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On 11/19/2020 at 4:17 AM, Stargazer said:

That is what I would expect, actually.

The science fiction author Greg Bear wrote a novel, Moving Mars, in which he used as a premise the work of an obscure physicist of many decades past to posit being able to move actual physical objects (such as a planet) light-years away instantaneously. I once asked him where he got this idea from, and he told me, but I don't remember and lost the email long ago. It's a bit involved to explain, but it actually makes sense from a certain point of view.

The alcubierre warp drive theory? It is a neat idea but it is one of the only theories on how to deal with the light speed barrier. There are a few problems with it such as relying on particles we are not sure actually exist, would require more power than the sun will put out in its lifetime (meaning antimatter would be the only plausible power method as of right now) and coming out of “warp” might annihilate everything at the destination in a wave of super intense radiation. It also might cause a naked singularity and those are...well....bad. It is an infinitely dense object from which light can escape. A black hole with no event horizon. We are not even sure if it is possible to create one. All the equations give insane answers and general relativity and quantum physics give different insane answers. It is even possible that one could collapse the entire Universe but thankfully it would probably take a while.

Sorry, nerding out. We do know there is some kind of transportation method that creates something that looks like what a New York farm boy described as a conduit but sadly we do not know if that was FTL travel and Moroni didn’t explain it.

Edited by The Nehor
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16 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

Utah seems to be the place for first contact:

_115622500_monolith4.png

 

148653e24619e7c9203419aa8d07ce9f.gif

No doubt the people in Utah have heard about this already (or they've been abducted and can't say anything), but here's a Washington Post article about it.

Prophets have been going into the mountains to talk with God for ages.  Some other people just don't know how to find or use the transmitters and receivers, apparently.

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On 11/19/2020 at 4:20 PM, longview said:

Did it have something to do with multi-dimensional folding of space?

No, not at all.

Let me try to explain. All commonly observable matter is composed of "up" quarks, "down" quarks and electrons. Protons are composed of two "up" quarks and a "down" quark. Neutrons are composed of two "down" quarks and an "up" quark. These are the facts. 

Now on to the hypothesis.  Ask the question, how does an elementary particle know what it is? Or what makes it what it is? Why is a "down" quark a "down" quark and not an "up" quark? In fact, take this further to anti-particles. What makes an anti-quark an anti-quark and not a normal quark? 

You've heard that if a particle and it's anti-matter equivalent come into contact, they annihilate each other, or in other words, they convert instantly to energy. But how do they know that they are near enough to each other to trigger the conversion? Do they detect each other? If so, how?  

The physicist that Greg Bear got his theory from made the hypothesis that every elementary particle contained within itself what he called a "privileged band", meaning a "place" containing various settings such as what flavor of quark it was, whether it was a quark or an anti-quark, but most importantly (for the purpose of Moving Mars) where it was located, in some form of universal coordinates.  In the case of a quark and an anti-quark annihilating each other, it happened because each one was able to "read" the other's "privileged band" in order to see what kind of quark it was, and also be able to tell if it was close enough to trigger the annihilation.

Now, if you had some means of "reading" a quark's "privileged band" you could tell everything about it, and if you had that means, perhaps you might also have the means of making changes to it. You could change a "down" quark to an "up", you could change an anti-quark to a normal quark, and you could change its universal coordinate to place it a million light-years away, and that would "move" it to that position immediately.

Bear told me the name of the physicist those many years ago, in an email, and I looked him up to verify that the guy had existed (he was a very obscure physicist, I think), but unfortunately I don't remember the name of the physicist, and the email is long gone.  But Bear used the hypothesis is several of his novels, including "Moving Mars" and "The Forge of God" series. He may have used it in others, but I'm not well-read with Greg Bear.

I think the hypothesis in question is screwy, but it's intriguing, and the question still remains: what makes a quark a quark and not an anti-quark? 

Edited by Stargazer
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On 11/24/2020 at 9:36 PM, InCognitus said:

Utah seems to be the place for first contact:

_115622500_monolith4.png

 

148653e24619e7c9203419aa8d07ce9f.gif

No doubt the people in Utah have heard about this already (or they've been abducted and can't say anything), but here's a Washington Post article about it.

Whoever put that monolith in Utah got the dimensions wrong.

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On 11/26/2020 at 10:25 AM, Stargazer said:

Now, if you had some means of "reading" a quark's "privileged band" you could tell everything about it, and if you had that means, perhaps you might also have the means of making changes to it. You could change a "down" quark to an "up", you could change an anti-quark to a normal quark, and you could change its universal coordinate to place it a million light-years away, and that would "move" it to that position immediately.

We know from scriptures that both God the Father and Jesus can speak the Word and the elements instantly obey.  Makes me wonder if there are underlying spiritual dimensions that can be "programmed" to form "coarser" elements in certain other dimensions.

This underlying spiritual dimensions might constitute the Power of the Priesthood (and IS the Priesthood).  It contains a database of all knowledge, embodies the framework for Eternal Law of Justice, defines the Gospel with all the ordinances and covenants, provides for various kinds of kingdoms with its own laws, everything that is needed for God's orderly House.  I personally believe that both God the Father and Jesus came down into the Garden of Eden and spoke the Word for forming Adam and Eve's bodies (apparently at different times).

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On 11/26/2020 at 9:26 PM, InCognitus said:

Or, if the monolith was put in Utah by aliens, then maybe Stanley Kubrick got the dimensions wrong.

Yes, I suppose that might be the case, but I get the impression that the installation is mimicking Kubrick (actually Arthur C. Clarke), not the other way around.

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8 hours ago, longview said:

We know from scriptures that both God the Father and Jesus can speak the Word and the elements instantly obey.  Makes me wonder if there are underlying spiritual dimensions that can be "programmed" to form "coarser" elements in certain other dimensions.

I think it's a lot simpler than that. 2 Nephi 2:14 says "And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon." By things that act, he is not just referring to us. Because he commands that water become wine, and it obeys. "Peace, be still," and it is. This implies a certain consciousness and desire to obey. 

8 hours ago, longview said:

This underlying spiritual dimensions might constitute the Power of the Priesthood (and IS the Priesthood).  It contains a database of all knowledge, embodies the framework for Eternal Law of Justice, defines the Gospel with all the ordinances and covenants, provides for various kinds of kingdoms with its own laws, everything that is needed for God's orderly House. 

Amen.

8 hours ago, longview said:

I personally believe that both God the Father and Jesus came down into the Garden of Eden and spoke the Word for forming Adam and Eve's bodies (apparently at different times).

I believe you're right about that.

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4 hours ago, Stargazer said:
Quote

This underlying spiritual dimensions might constitute the Power of the Priesthood (and IS the Priesthood).  It contains a database of all knowledge, embodies the framework for Eternal Law of Justice, defines the Gospel with all the ordinances and covenants, provides for various kinds of kingdoms with its own laws, everything that is needed for God's orderly House. 

Amen.

I was reading this morning for my scripture study (President Nelson's challenge for going thru the Topical Guide on Jesus Christ).  I was struck by this verse:  15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?  (see Acts 19:12 - 18).

Even evil spirits have the ability to recognize certain individuals as having the authority of the Priesthood and seeing none in people who falsely claim to have the power.

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On 11/12/2020 at 9:07 AM, Bernard Gui said:

 Been following failed attempts at thermonuclear propulsion since my boyhood days in Los Alamos, ...

Well I know your kids are super-bright, but is that because they have two heads?  That's not fair! :crazy:

But I bet THAT was an interesting experience, in that place, at that time...  :)

 

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14 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Well I know your kids are super-bright, but is that because they have two heads?  That's not fair! :crazy:

But I bet THAT was an interesting experience, in that place, at that time...  :)

 

I think our childhood in Los Alamos during that time was unique in history.

Friends’ dads going off to Nevada and the South Pacific to blow off really big firecrackers. Several died or got cancer from radiation exposure. Constant explosion sounds as they tested the high explosive components for the ABombs.  A laboratory surplus store where there was a lot of really interesting stuff. 

12 National Merit scholars and several Letters of Commendation winners in my graduating class of around 200. A few students got patents on their science fair projects. A couple of friends and I were hired to excavate a Pueblo Indian ruin in the middle of downtown and there were ancient cliff and cave dwellings everywhere. Had to have a security pass to get in at the main gate to the city manned by armed guards. I remember a tank and machine gun emplacements at the gate. It’s a restaurant now. 

In our small ward there were physicists, chemists, explosives technicians, reactor workers, mathematicians, engineers of all stripes, and a guy who was in the Princeton group that did the initial work on black holes. Several of the brethren worked on the projects trying to make a thermonuclear reactor. They needed to contain the plasma in a huge toroidal magnetic bottle, but it kept leaking through the magnetic lines of force. They gave us Scouts a tour once. We lived down the street from Stanislaw Ulam. Every day at 5pm they tested the air raid siren because we were in the top 5 nuclear attack targets. There were frequent city-wide evacuations into underground vaults and even out of the city.

Plus the artistic, Native American,  and Latino cultures in Santa Fe, Taos, and the Pueblos. A world class opera ($1 standing-room-only tickets for students), museums galore and historical buildings dating to the 1500s in Santa Fe. Built on the side of one of the largest volcano calderas in the world. 7200 feet elevation. An outdoor skating rink in town and ski runs 20 minutes away. My mom was friends with Maria, the famous Santa Clara Indian potter.  For two summers I worked as a student-temp microfilming secret documents and plans of all sorts. Some verrrry interesting stuff there.

Quite the place to grow up! I would move back tomorrow if I could.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think our childhood in Los Alamos during that time was unique in history.

Friends’ dads going off to Nevada and the South Pacific to blow off really big firecrackers. Constant explosion sounds as they tested the high explosive components for the ABombs.  A laboratory surplus store where there was a lot of really interesting stuff. 

12 National Merit scholars and several Letters of Commendation winners in my graduating class of around 200. A few students got patents on their science fair projects. A couple of friends and I were hired to excavate a Pueblo Indian ruin in the middle of downtown and there were ancient cliff and cave dwellings everywhere. Had to have a security pass to get in at the main gate to the city manned by armed guards. I remember a tank and machine gun emplacements at the gate. It’s a restaurant now. 

In our small ward there were physicists, chemists, explosives technicians, reactor workers, mathematicians, engineers of all stripes, and a guy who was in the Princeton group that did the initial work on black holes. Several of the brethren worked on the projects trying to make a thermonuclear reactor. They were trying to contain the reaction in a huge toroidal magnetic bottle, but the  plasma kept leaking through the magnetic lines of force. They gave us Scouts a tour once. We lived down the street from Stanislaw Ulam. Every day at 5pm they tested the air raid siren because we were in the top 5 nuclear attack targets. There were frequent city-wide evacuations into underground vaults and even out of the city.

Plus the artistic, Native American,  and Latino cultures in Santa Fe, Taos, and the Pueblos. A world class opera ($1 standing-room-only tickets for students), museums galore and historical buildings dating to the 1500s in Santa Fe. Built on the side of one of the largest volcano calderas in the world. 7200 feet elevation. An outdoor skating rink in town and ski runs 20 minutes away. My mom was friends with Maria, the famous Santa Clara Indian potter.  For two summers I worked as a student-temp microfilming secret documents and plans of all sorts. Some verrrry interesting stuff there.

Quite the place to grow up! I would move back tomorrow if I could.

It had to be a time unlike any other in history.

You really should write a book about it- or at least make some audio recordings for your descendants.

Both my father and father in law worked on the X-1 and X-2, the Mercury and Apollo projects and all the space programs through the shuttle.  Those were world-changing times, but my stories about that 

My mom dated Chuck Yeager, the first to break the sound barrier in a plane.  My dad worked at Bell Aircraft and then Bell Aerospace before we moved to California.

Those were world-changing times, but my stories about that pale in comparison to yours!  Amazing stuff!

 

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On 11/26/2020 at 9:25 AM, Stargazer said:

what makes a quark a quark and not an anti-quark? 

Maybe it’s bishop offended it or it read some anti-quark materials?

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35 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Anything pursued by the government is likely to be a monumental waste of resources.  I'd vote a definite no.  

I agree with Bob.  Government-run space exploration had its day.  Let the private sector do it.

Thanks,

-Smac

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1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:

Anything pursued by the government is likely to be a monumental waste of resources.  I'd vote a definite no.  

I think you have a point to a degree.  But I like how when the government is doing space exploration, the public gets a say on their objectives.  And I love how NASA legally has to share everything, even radio transmissions, with us.

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6 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Anything pursued by the government is likely to be a monumental waste of resources.  I'd vote a definite no.  

Is money still considered to be a resource?  Numbers in a bank account?  With various recycling programs the government can make as much money as it wants to make so I don't consider spending money to be a waste of resources.

I think the way to waste money is to not spend it.

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1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Is money still considered to be a resource?  Numbers in a bank account?  With various recycling programs the government can make as much money as it wants to make so I don't consider spending money to be a waste of resources.

I think the way to waste money is to not spend it.

Recycling consumes more energy than would be required to make it new.  And to put government in charge of it?  

I don't approve using my taxes to fund recycling programs.  Or the space program.  Or stem cell research.  Or family planning.  It is confiscation of the worst sort, and intervening in areas the private sector can handle. 

Appropro of nothing, I like the story of the government-built solar project just south of the California/Nevada state line on I15.  It was built of 25-year-old technology.  Solar mirrors.  Lots of deseret tortoises were sacrificed to make the plant.  Once it was operational, the public utility discovered that it needed natural gas to heat the boilers at night.   Turns out the facility would have been much more efficient as a natural gas plant than a solar plant.  Built and designed by the government, the most wasteful and unproductive segment of society.  Its workers are drones and no better than on the dole.  Its output is minimal and competes with the private sector. 

We need the government for a few things.  Police, the military and the courts.  But not for medicine, power, space, or family planning.

Edited by Bob Crockett
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16 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Recycling consumes more energy than would be required to make it new.  And to put government in charge of it?  

I don't approve using my taxes to fund recycling programs.  Or the space program.  Or stem cell research.  Or family planning.  It is confiscation of the worst sort, and intervening in areas the private sector can handle. 

Somehow I'm getting the sense that what you have a problem with is the idea of having a governing body\group of people making some choices.  Is that right?  Have you had some bad experiences involving some people making some choices and that because of those bad experiences you are now averse to the idea of any group/body of people making some choices?

I don't like some things some people choose to do either but I am not averse to the idea of having some group of people making some choices,. We all need to make choices and it can be better for people to make choices together than in isolation.

Consuming energy isn't necessarily a bad thing and it can sometimes be good to consume more energy than to consume less.  Especially when a supply of energy is much greater than a supply of resources.

Edited by Ahab
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