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"Love One Another" v. "Black Lives Matter"


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BLM is a Marxist organization. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/amp/

As such I don’t see much room for religion. Blacks are far more likely to be killed by another Black, than a police officer. Per the FBI, in 2019, there were 2870 Blacks murdered. Of those murders 2570 were committed by Blacks. 

Last year there were 14 fatal police shootings of unarmed Black men. I don’t have information on how many Blacks were killed by police by other means. 

As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings showed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019. The database does not include those killed by other means, like George Floyd.”

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice

The Black community’s high single mother rate is of far more concern. Or it should be. 

“As of 2015, at 77.3 percent, black Americans have the highest rate of non-marital births among native Americans.[34]

34] Camarota, y Steven A. "Births to Unmarried Mothers by Nativity and Education". Center for Immigration Studies. Retrieved 8 July 2020.

Racism is world wide and certainly not limited to Americans. 
 

Based on the above stats one wonders why BLM is so focused on the police rather than fixing their own community/culture. 

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1 hour ago, sweetpotatoh said:

BLM is a Marxist organization. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/amp/

As such I don’t see much room for religion. Blacks are far more likely to be killed by another Black, than a police officer. Per the FBI, in 2019, there were 2870 Blacks murdered. Of those murders 2570 were committed by Blacks. 

Last year there were 14 fatal police shootings of unarmed Black men. I don’t have information on how many Blacks were killed by police by other means. 

As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings showed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019. The database does not include those killed by other means, like George Floyd.”

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice

The Black community’s high single mother rate is of far more concern. Or it should be. 

“As of 2015, at 77.3 percent, black Americans have the highest rate of non-marital births among native Americans.[34]

34] Camarota, y Steven A. "Births to Unmarried Mothers by Nativity and Education". Center for Immigration Studies. Retrieved 8 July 2020.

Racism is world wide and certainly not limited to Americans. 
 

Based on the above stats one wonders why BLM is so focused on the police rather than fixing their own community/culture. 

One wonders why there is an assumption that they are not trying to fix their communities.

One wonders why one can't focus on both.

One wonders if there is anyone actually focusing on white on white crime.  If police officers are killing unarmed white men in smaller numbers than white on white crime do we have to ignore that till all white on white killings are stopped?

But back to the original post.  Maybe, we can just love one another and recognize with that love we can bless our fellow men better in multiple areas.

 

Edited by Rain
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4 hours ago, sweetpotatoh said:

Based on the above stats one wonders why BLM is so focused on the police rather than fixing their own community/culture. 

I think this might be an indicator of the basic problem: how did "their own [black] community/culture" come about, and with so many "negative" statistics in so many areas of life as compared to white communities? How did their (and your) communities come to be divided along racial lines in the first place?

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CV75 the answer to your question is The Great Society Act. When single motherhood is financially rewarded the consequences are catastrophic. 

“Children raised by single mothers are more likely to fare worse on a number of dimensions, including their school achievement, their social and emotional development, their health and their success in the labor market. They are at greater risk of parental abuse and neglect (especially from live-in boyfriends who are not their biological fathers), more likely to become teen parents and less likely to graduate from high school or college.[i]  Not all children raised in single parent families suffer these adverse outcomes; it is simply that the risks are greater for them.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/opinions/are-children-raised-with-absent-fathers-worse-off/amp/

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13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Do you ever feel it's life or death when you get pulled over by police?

When you answer that question, that is your answer. 

They of course don't want to be treated better, they want to be treated the same. 

If you get pulled over do you get nervous on where to put your hands? 

This might answer another question.

 

Good questions, T. Yes, I think about being pulled over all the time now. And yes, I do see it as life or death depending on how I behave and most definitely where I put my hands. All 'colors' should be concerned. I'm shocked I had never thought about it before until this last year. If I make any sudden or suspicious movements, it is entirely reasonable to believe I put myself potentially in harm's way - my innocent intentions be 'darn'd'.

As an aside, why does LE tolerate darkened (tinted) back windows? It must be EXTREMELY scary approaching a car not being able to see its occupants clearly.

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30 minutes ago, sweetpotatoh said:

CV75 the answer to your question is The Great Society Act. When single motherhood is financially rewarded the consequences are catastrophic. 

“Children raised by single mothers are more likely to fare worse on a number of dimensions, including their school achievement, their social and emotional development, their health and their success in the labor market. They are at greater risk of parental abuse and neglect (especially from live-in boyfriends who are not their biological fathers), more likely to become teen parents and less likely to graduate from high school or college.[i]  Not all children raised in single parent families suffer these adverse outcomes; it is simply that the risks are greater for them.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/opinions/are-children-raised-with-absent-fathers-worse-off/amp/

Ah The Great Society Act of 1964. Its been all downhill for prosperous black communities in America ever since. /s

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1 hour ago, sweetpotatoh said:

CV75 the answer to your question is The Great Society Act. When single motherhood is financially rewarded the consequences are catastrophic. 

“Children raised by single mothers are more likely to fare worse on a number of dimensions, including their school achievement, their social and emotional development, their health and their success in the labor market. They are at greater risk of parental abuse and neglect (especially from live-in boyfriends who are not their biological fathers), more likely to become teen parents and less likely to graduate from high school or college.[i]  Not all children raised in single parent families suffer these adverse outcomes; it is simply that the risks are greater for them.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/opinions/are-children-raised-with-absent-fathers-worse-off/amp/

You framed the problem in terms of race (the black community and culture), so your answer needs to be in terms of race in order to avoid deflecting to “single motherhood.”

What is the racial basis for "their own [black] community/culture" with the attendant bad statistics (social, economic, criminal, health, etc.), as compared to white communities? Why do the racial correlations that the Great Society ostensibly addressed still exist 60 years on?

What is the racial basis for single motherhood being more prevalent and negatively impactful for black people and communities than white people and their communities?

Edited by CV75
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42 minutes ago, CV75 said:

You framed the problem in terms of race (the black community and culture), so your answer needs to be in terms of race in order to avoid deflecting to “single motherhood.”

What is the racial basis for "their own [black] community/culture" with the attendant bad statistics (social, economic, criminal, health, etc.), as compared to white communities? Why do the racial correlations that the Great Society ostensibly addressed still exist 60 years on?

What is the racial basis for single motherhood being more prevalent and negatively impactful for black people and communities than white people and their communities?

These are essential questions to answer. 

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3 hours ago, sweetpotatoh said:

CV75 the answer to your question is The Great Society Act. When single motherhood is financially rewarded the consequences are catastrophic. 

“Children raised by single mothers are more likely to fare worse on a number of dimensions, including their school achievement, their social and emotional development, their health and their success in the labor market. They are at greater risk of parental abuse and neglect (especially from live-in boyfriends who are not their biological fathers), more likely to become teen parents and less likely to graduate from high school or college.[i]  Not all children raised in single parent families suffer these adverse outcomes; it is simply that the risks are greater for them.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/opinions/are-children-raised-with-absent-fathers-worse-off/amp/

Often women choose to have an abortion because they feel they are unable to financial and emotionally raise a child.  If they do decide to not have an abortion, they often need financial and government services to help raise the child.  If the United States is going to outlaw abortion, then don't you think the government should financially and through other government programs to help the parent(s) raise more successful children?

I would be interested in hearing comments on how to resolve these two conflicting scenarios.  

Edited by california boy
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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

These are essential questions to answer. 

So true: as you can see from the post above this one, there is a tendency to deflect further and further from the racial basis for the problems faced by black communities: first  to single motherhood and now to abortion… what might come next?

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55 minutes ago, california boy said:

Often women choose to have an abortion because they feel they are unable to financial and emotionally raise a child.  If they do decide to not have an abortion, they often need financial and government services to help raise the child.  If the United States is going to outlaw abortion, then don't you think the government should financially and through other government programs to help the parent(s) raise more successful children?

I would be interested in hearing comments on how to resolve these two conflicting scenarios.  

To the bold, I agree.

As an aside, if an abortion is because of rape or incest I hope it's immediate. And also, if abortion is because of the life of the mother I hope it's allowed but hopefully diagnosed at an early stage. Tough, tough situation though, and if it were me, I'd go through with the pregnancy anyway, which hopefully would be a better outcome. Another reason for abortion is if the infant has died in the womb during pregnancy, the mother shouldn't have to carry it full term. Of course current law allows it, but one day that could be taken away. And the other reason for aborting a baby is if it has conditions that would not be any kind of living whatsoever, so if the child were born it'd suffer with so much pain and disability that it would be cruel. 

And you make a very good point here as well, where is the help when having these children that have extreme special needs, where is the help then? Sure there is some, but from what I've read it's not always forthcoming. I have no basis to talk but I've read and seen some horror stories about parents left high and dry in dealing with children with extreme needs. 

But I would never okay abortion as a matter of convenience or social or ? reasons. In fact I'm so unsure of half my reasons, that I almost deleted my comment. I'm against most abortions I guess.

It's a difficult subject. 

Edited by Tacenda
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13 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I support the principle of Black lives matter.  Will never support the organization. 

From BYU Magazine, an organization worth supporting: https://magazine.byu.edu/article/black-at-byu/

As the nation grappled this summer with questions of racial injustice, police brutality, and ethnic opportunity, BYU looked inward. Noting “the tragic deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, and others,” President Kevin J Worthen (BA ’79, JD ’82) said in a statement, “We know there is work to do, on campus and throughout the nation, for us to better come together, to address injustice, and to truly love one another.”

In June the university announced the creation of the BYU Committee on Race, Equity, and Belonging, with the goals of “rooting out racism, healing its wounds, and building bridges of understanding.” Though the initial emphasis is on the Black experience, the multiethnic committee is seeking the input of all Black, indigenous, and other people of color at BYU as it prepares recommendations for changes to improve the minority experience on campus. The committee’s recommendations will be released late in the fall semester.

Learn more about the committee’s efforts or share your related experiences at https://race.byu.edu/

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9 hours ago, Rain said:

One wonders why there is an assumption that they are not trying to fix their communities.

One wonders why one can't focus on both.

One wonders if there is anyone actually focusing on white on white crime.  If police officers are killing unarmed white men in smaller numbers than white on white crime do we have to ignore that till all white on white killings are stopped?

But back to the original post.  Maybe, we can just love one another and recognize with that love we can bless our fellow men better in multiple areas.

 

Hello Rain, thank you for bringing the killing of whites by whites up and the situation of whites being killed by police officers. The fact that more unarmed whites are killed by police than blacks says something that is always swept under the rug. It just does not fit into the victimology desperately pushed by BLM.

Motivations are important to me. I want to know why people are doing things. BLM is NOT out to protest the loss of Black lives out of love, charity, etc. They have a political agenda and they have chosen this situation to push their agenda.  Where is their heart? It is not on saving Black people; it is elsewhere.'

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Hello Rain, thank you for bringing the killing of whites by whites up and the situation of whites being killed by police officers. The fact that more unarmed whites are killed by police than blacks says something that is always swept under the rug. It just does not fit into the victimology desperately pushed by BLM.

Motivations are important to me. I want to know why people are doing things. BLM is NOT out to protest the loss of Black lives out of love, charity, etc. They have a political agenda and they have chosen this situation to push their agenda.  Where is their heart? It is not on saving Black people; it is elsewhere.'

 

 

Can you provide a reference for the bolded statement?  I hear this a lot from certain groups but I've never seen where it comes from.  Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Another reason for abortion is if the infant has died in the womb during pregnancy, the mother shouldn't have to carry it full term. Of course current law allows it, but one day that could be taken away.

Highly unlikely given the medical consequences. The body will start decomposing. You are likely thinking of when they induce for a natural delivery after discovering a death as away to limit harm to the mother. 

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2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

The fact that more unarmed whites are killed by police than blacks says something that is always swept under the rug. It just does not fit into the victimology desperately pushed by BLM

Not really.
 

In terms of absolute numbers, it makes sense the largest race has the most deaths. But in terms of rates, blacks have much higher numbers...

Quote
Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 2, 2020
 The rate of fatal police shootings in the United States shows large differences based on ethnicity. Among Black Americans, the rate of fatal police shootings between 2015 and October 2020 stood at 32 per million of the population, while for White Americans, the rate stood at 13 fatal police shootings per million of the population

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
 

The first shows there are about twice as many fatal shootings of white as black. 
 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219

But given the US is 76% white and 13% black (almost 6 times as many whites in the US as blacks) the chances a white will be shot and killed by police is much lower than it is for blacks. 

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Not really.
 

In terms of absolute numbers, it makes sense the largest race has the most deaths. But in terms of rates, blacks have much higher numbers...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
 

The first shows there are about twice as many fatal shootings of white as black. 
 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219

But given the US is 76% white and 13% black (almost 6 times as many whites in the US as blacks) the chances a white will be shot and killed by police is much lower than it is for blacks. 

There are statistics and damn statistics. The truth, the facts are more unarmed whites were killed by police than blacks. That single fact is always buried and when discussed these kind of silly statistics are brought up. The problem remains that police offers don't see in statistics; their lives are not impacted by statistics. They are impacted by every event where they kill another human and they kill more unarmed white people than black people. 

This fact is also evidence that police killing has nothing to do with race and yet we ignore all other potential causes. If it was solely a race issue there would be no unarmed whites being killed.

When I read about an unarmed individual being killed there is almost always additional behaviors in tow - individual tried to take the police officer's gun, individual refused to follow commands, individual was belligerent, individual attempted to run away and the list goes on and on. 

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16 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

these kind of silly statistics are brought up. T

Okay...will be ignoring your comments on this in the future.  Please do not assume silence means agreement. 

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12 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

There are statistics and damn statistics. The truth, the facts are more unarmed whites were killed by police than blacks. That single fact is always buried and when discussed these kind of silly statistics are brought up. The problem remains that police offers don't see in statistics; their lives are not impacted by statistics. They are impacted by every event where they kill another human and they kill more unarmed white people than black people. 

This fact is also evidence that police killing has nothing to do with race and yet we ignore all other potential causes. If it was solely a race issue there would be no unarmed whites being killed.

When I read about an unarmed individual being killed there is almost always additional behaviors in tow - individual tried to take the police officer's gun, individual refused to follow commands, individual was belligerent, individual attempted to run away and the list goes on and on. 

The second truth (fact) is that a higher rate of unarmed blacks were killed by policy than white Why do you use "the facts" to describe the count figure, and then resort to the "single fact" when the corresponding fact is considered? Clumsy analysis might result from lack of expertise or from bias.

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1 hour ago, CV75 said:

The second truth (fact) is that a higher rate of unarmed blacks were killed by policy than white Why do you use "the facts" to describe the count figure, and then resort to the "single fact" when the corresponding fact is considered? Clumsy analysis might result from lack of expertise or from bias.

The entire issue of racism and the police has been focused on the death of unarmed black individuals by police. It was the numbers of blacks that was constantly, unendingly in the news. Unfortunately, mass media was almost completely silent on the same thing that happened to white individuals. Not a peep, and yet there were more unarmed white people killed by the police. 

I don't get your second clause; your point escapes me. When numbers fail, humans often resort to percentages and/or statistics. I contend that if the mass media had paid the same attention to the killing of white individuals we may very well be at a different place in society and the incessant claim of racism may actually retain some value. As of now, racism has been used so often, it has lost the impact it could have retained. 

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Okay...will be ignoring your comments on this in the future.  Please do not assume silence means agreement. 

LOL, Calm, I never assume that we agree on societal issues regardless if you comment or not. We have different life experiences and different conclusions as a result. 

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On 11/5/2020 at 1:03 PM, nuclearfuels said:

Have a nice day.

 

36 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

LOL, Calm, I never assume that we agree on societal issues regardless if you comment or not. We have different life experiences and different conclusions as a result. 

Right.  Your ancestors did not spend hundreds of years in slavery.  Your ancestors were not kidnapped from their homes and thrown into hell.  

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7 hours ago, Calm said:

According to Washington Post data, 14 unarmed blacks and 23 whites were fatally shot by police. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/?itid=lk_inline_manual_5

Again when you are comparing 14 deaths in 13% of the population to 23 in 76%, this is not the same as if the populations were equal in number.  For it to occur at an equal rate, that would mean 81 unarmed whites would have to be shot. 
 

 

Calm, by your logic, half of all of those killed by police should be women, since women are half of the population. And yet almost all are men. Do you think that is because the police are misandristic? Could there be any other explanation?

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