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"Love One Another" v. "Black Lives Matter"


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16 minutes ago, gopher said:

Proud boys deny they are white supremacists.  They are still idiots.

I do think many on the right are calling anyone who looted, vandalized, or attacked law enforcement members of Antifa, even though they aren't.  It's just easier to lump them all together.

It's much more satisfying to believe both sides are bad (BSAB).  Then you don't have to defend the ridiculous things those on your team says and does.  You should join me!  I've escaped DC for the suburbs, but I spent enough time working under both parties to have little trust in either.

They deny it but the dogwhistled racism and the dogwhistling leaders they adore suggest otherwise. Sometimes the dog whistle is replaced with a foghorn. Then again they are not really a structured group either so other weirdos are involved as well.

One initiation ritual they use smacks of overt chauvinism and thinly veiled racism:

On top of that that ritual is just pathetic and sad. I have been in play fights as a kid that were more of a trial than....whatever that is.

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Wrong.

It takes people. It doesn’t take money. The organization was, at most, posting guides on what to wear and what to bring and what not to bring but it was individuals giving advice and not some organizing committee. There was some organization but it was small groups. People with medical training agreed to set up a tent together, a group of people decide to bring food and water and tell everyone where they will be.

There was no central organizing committee. Who is on this committee? This should be a simple question to answer if there is one.

They stopped because the fervor died down. They didn’t all stop at once either. Some areas faded in days with occasional resurgences. Portland had tear gas showers almost every night for months.

The circumstances have improved. I talked about that earlier. Biden has a limited wishlist to address concerns but much more importantly city governments have made changes. It remains if they will end up being empty noise or real reform and it will probably vary across the country.

The crime bill you are talking about was a disaster but it was a bipartisan bill. It gave the Right the “tough on crime” thing that was in vogue and the various mandatory minimum and three strikes and all the rest of the stuff in that era was believed by many on the Left to be perfect to combat racial inequality (and many of them were in the “tough on crime” bandwagon as well). The protesters are not thrilled with the President and VP elects by any stretch. Many view them as centrists. They do see it as an improvement since Biden wanted to solve the grievances at the base of the problem and probably won’t pound the war drum screaming about how he is going to move in and end the protests with brute force. And again, most police reform will not take place on a national level in any case.

As to your link you could just save everyone some time and say you believe Soros is the great mastermind behind everything.

Your assertion that there have to be puppetmasters is more an article of faith to you than an established fact. Again, who is on this central organizing committee and why were most protest groups limited to someone on Facebook saying we should meet at Spot A if there was some grand conspiracy behind it. If there was a central committee they were both experts at hiding themselves completely while so incompetent that they controlled nothing. I don’t buy it.

Okay, here are other foundations that support activists. Now of course, the question is: where do they get their funds to support activists?

https://www.fordfoundation.org/

https://kresge.org/

https://guerrillafoundation.org/what-we-do/grantmaking/

https://northstarfund.org/apply/innovative-activism-grants/

The list is huge. The Open Society Foundation is just one of many. It makes no difference who runs it. It supports organizations that agree with their values and goals. BLM has received millions of dollars for its cause from various sources. Most of the demonstrations occurred in democrat cities and where allowed to do so. Now....it is over. Didn't the Oregon governor, who is a democrat call in the National Guard right after the election? The message was sent and delivered.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/wtMYc74pYERCxBL4WHDZ

 

Quite a difference from a month ago when the governor said no to the guard. What changed?

https://oregoncatalyst.com/50283-gov-calls-national-guard-election.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by why me
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8 hours ago, why me said:

Okay, here are other foundations that support activists. Now of course, the question is: where do they get their funds to support activists?

https://www.fordfoundation.org/

https://kresge.org/

https://guerrillafoundation.org/what-we-do/grantmaking/

https://northstarfund.org/apply/innovative-activism-grants/

The list is huge. The Open Society Foundation is just one of many. It makes no difference who runs it. It supports organizations that agree with their values and goals. BLM has received millions of dollars for its cause from various sources. Most of the demonstrations occurred in democrat cities and where allowed to do so. Now....it is over. Didn't the Oregon governor, who is a democrat call in the National Guard right after the election? The message was sent and delivered.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/wtMYc74pYERCxBL4WHDZ

 

Quite a difference from a month ago when the governor said no to the guard. What changed?

https://oregoncatalyst.com/50283-gov-calls-national-guard-election.html

Can you save me some time and tell me which of those organizations was passing out twenties to protesters and covering their rent?

Oh, they brought out the big guns in Oregon? That would be shocking if it coincided with the election.

“Oregon activated 46 members of its National Guard Wednesday after some protesters in Portland broke windows and vandalized property, U.S. defense and Oregon state officials said.”

46 people? Wow, that must have been a game changer and definitely indicates orders from on high from George Soros that the protests MUST STOP NOW!!!! I bet they all rain in fear when they heard there were almost 50 young reservists hitting the streets that night.

/sarcasm

 

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18 hours ago, Calm said:

I saw that.  In 2018-2019 there were 39 people killed in the US by WSEs (31 were killed by 3 lone individuals in separate incidents).  It's horrible and I'm glad the FBI and other law enforcement closely monitor the activities of white supremacy groups.  But I'm not sure that's enough to cause panic in our communities.  Most residents in DC are black and don't seem too concerned when white supremists hold protests, especially since they are poorly attended and attendees leave town well before dark for their own safety.  I'm not claiming white supremists are harmless, but I do think their threat was exaggerated for the election by the media.

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7 minutes ago, gopher said:

But I'm not sure that's enough to cause panic in our communities.

I agree.  Do you have examples of the left inciting panic as opposed to focusing attention on the groups in hopes of promoting awareness of them, their goals, and facilitating their elimination as sources of violence?

I am not doubting it happens. I have seen it with certain claims made about antifa by some on the right. I am just curious about how it is done by the left....if you are thinking what I believe you are. 

Edited by Calm
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10 minutes ago, Calm said:

I agree.  Do you have examples of the left inciting panic as opposed to focusing attention on the groups in hopes of promoting awareness of them, their goals, and facilitating their elimination as sources of violence?

I am not doubting it happens. I have seen it with certain claims made about antifa by some on the right. I am just curious about how it is done by the left....if you are thinking what I believe you are. 

I'm not sure I understand what you are thinking that I am thinking.  I don't think antifa (and those lumped in with them) pose much of a threat to our communities either.  I don't agree with either group and believe they are both wrong and evil.  And I'm not claiming both groups are equally evil.  Just evil.

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17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have no problem believing both sides do things for which shame is the proper response (and some thing for which execution is the proper response) but I don’t find them equivalent. Plus “a plague on both your houses” generally means I do nothing.

Unfortunately, taking one side often means ignoring or downplaying the wrongdoings your side is committing.  CNN may never live this one down:EgZ9pwtXcAAnXUP.jpg.6d9f973320e63f31e94275d9722b7f45.jpg

 

Edited by gopher
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8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Can you save me some time and tell me which of those organizations was passing out twenties to protesters and covering their rent?

Oh, they brought out the big guns in Oregon? That would be shocking if it coincided with the election.

“Oregon activated 46 members of its National Guard Wednesday after some protesters in Portland broke windows and vandalized property, U.S. defense and Oregon state officials said.”

46 people? Wow, that must have been a game changer and definitely indicates orders from on high from George Soros that the protests MUST STOP NOW!!!! I bet they all rain in fear when they heard there were almost 50 young reservists hitting the streets that night.

/sarcasm

 

I was offered money to attend protests while I worked for a liberal PAC. Many of my coworkers would travel on weekends and take the cash. 
I’m not sure why you think this doesn’t happen?

It’s in the organizing/advertising. People do organize these events. It’s called ‘community organizing.’ These people are usually pulling a paycheck from someone.

 

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7 hours ago, gopher said:

I'm not sure I understand what you are thinking that I am thinking.  I don't think antifa (and those lumped in with them) pose much of a threat to our communities either.  I don't agree with either group and believe they are both wrong and evil.  And I'm not claiming both groups are equally evil.  Just evil.

But you are thinking media and others attempted to inflate fear by using these groups, making unfounded claims about them, right?  Examples of those claims is what I am interested in.  I am wondering how bad they got.  I saw some pretty extreme claims about antifa, wondering if claims about white supremacy went to that extreme as well,

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On 12/1/2020 at 8:05 AM, The Nehor said:

Can you save me some time and tell me which of those organizations was passing out twenties to protesters and covering their rent?

Oh, they brought out the big guns in Oregon? That would be shocking if it coincided with the election.

“Oregon activated 46 members of its National Guard Wednesday after some protesters in Portland broke windows and vandalized property, U.S. defense and Oregon state officials said.”

46 people? Wow, that must have been a game changer and definitely indicates orders from on high from George Soros that the protests MUST STOP NOW!!!! I bet they all rain in fear when they heard there were almost 50 young reservists hitting the streets that night.

/sarcasm

 

My point was simple. There are foundations giving money to organizations that agree with their agenda. This is the case with social justice groups and also left wing organizing communities. They can get money if they write a good application or proposal. However, since many of the protests took place in democrat cities and were permitted by the mayors and governors and the police were more or less told to stand down...now when the democrats have the presidency, these protests suddenly disappeared. However, they may return again if BLM or some other organizations smell a rat.

Do you remember Occupy Wall Street? Obama was president and the police reacted rather violently to these protests that occurred in mainly Democrat cities. And in 1999, the Seattle demonstrations got a violent reaction when Clinton was president. People seem to blame trump for reacting violently...but...he was tame when compared to the reactions to Occupy Wall Street movements in the US and to the  Seattle demonstrations at the end of November 1999. The police were brutal and supported by the mayors.

Edited by why me
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On 12/1/2020 at 4:17 PM, bsjkki said:

I was offered money to attend protests while I worked for a liberal PAC. Many of my coworkers would travel on weekends and take the cash. 
I’m not sure why you think this doesn’t happen?

It’s in the organizing/advertising. People do organize these events. It’s called ‘community organizing.’ These people are usually pulling a paycheck from someone.

 

Absolutely right. The leaders are especially getting paid for their work. I remember when I was a activist. We printed our leaflets by our own printing machine by hand and mailed information to our members. The money came from somewhere.

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8 hours ago, why me said:

My point was simple. There are foundations giving money to organizations that agree with their agenda. This is the case with social justice groups and also left wing organizing communities. They can get money if they write a good application or proposal. However, since many of the protests took place in democrat cities and were permitted by the mayors and governors and the police were more or less told to stand down...now when the democrats have the presidency, these protests suddenly disappeared. However, they may return again if BLM or some other organizations smell a rat.

Do you remember Occupy Wall Street? Obama was president and the police reacted rather violently to these protests that occurred in mainly Democrat cities. And in 1999, the Seattle demonstrations got a violent reaction when Clinton was president. People seem to blame trump for reacting violently...but...he was tame when compared to the reactions to Occupy Wall Street movements in the US and to the  Seattle demonstrations at the end of November 1999. The police were brutal and supported by the mayors.

I do remember Occupy. There were a few crackdowns involving gas canisters but I remember there being about half a dozen incidents. Maybe a dozen. Portland had more pepper spray attacks in three weeks than the entire Occupy movement did in total.

Money does go to stuff. In this case though most of it went to push publicity and to provide attorneys for arrested protesters. I have no found any evidence of paid protesting and I looked. If I missed it please point it out.

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On 12/1/2020 at 7:47 AM, gopher said:

Unfortunately, taking one side often means ignoring or downplaying the wrongdoings your side is committing.  CNN may never live this one down:EgZ9pwtXcAAnXUP.jpg.6d9f973320e63f31e94275d9722b7f45.jpg

 

I like peaceful fire.

Choosing no side in all things is choosing nothing. There are many causes I support. Some I support more than others. Some are left-wing. Some are right-wing. Well, I guess technically they just have more supporters on one wing.

CNN is not wrong. The protests were largely peaceful. It is probably not good optics to announce that with a fire in the background.

9C3E1636-BBD6-4B0F-9AB9-0A7A40DD88E4.gif.a0c6931d2f240fc994e8911da9544753.gif

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16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I do remember Occupy. There were a few crackdowns involving gas canisters but I remember there being about half a dozen incidents. Maybe a dozen. Portland had more pepper spray attacks in three weeks than the entire Occupy movement did in total.

Money does go to stuff. In this case though most of it went to push publicity and to provide attorneys for arrested protesters. I have no found any evidence of paid protesting and I looked. If I missed it please point it out.

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-crowds-extortion-20181021-story.html

It happens. But the organizations that organize the protests get the funding to organize protests and help with the logistics. Of course salaries are paid for organization leaders. BLM has received millions and millions of dollars. No idea where that money went and to whose pocket some of it went.

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On 11/30/2020 at 9:22 AM, Tacenda said:

Why can't you be a fan still?

Because being a fan used to bring us together. Now with politics involved it has separated us again. it's no longer entertainment to escape from the world now it's the same world. I have boycotted the NFL this year, the NBA for years and MLB will be on my list if they bring all of the politics into the sport. Having millionaires tell me that I have an advantage over them because I am white strikes me as hypocritical.

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9 hours ago, why me said:

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-crowds-extortion-20181021-story.html

It happens. But the organizations that organize the protests get the funding to organize protests and help with the logistics. Of course salaries are paid for organization leaders. BLM has received millions and millions of dollars. No idea where that money went and to whose pocket some of it went.

Please don’t audit me........

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Finally got around to listening to the YouTube with Paul Cardall that I posted in the News section a few days ago. He just mentioned his brother who had mental illness getting shot twice with a taser by an untrained police officer in southern Utah and died. He had jumped out of the car when going down the road with his family, took off his clothes and ran naked down the road and that is why the police were called in, so instead of help they got a funeral out of it according to the article. 

Duane his dad, was interviewed and mentioned their support for BLM. His son-in-law is black and has been pulled over in Utah and asked what he was doing in the neighborhood, and he's also had other instances elsewhere that are similar. Just thought I'd share that training and funds for mental counselors are needed and that is the whole point of BLM, nothing political. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6/21/21296202/lee-benson-police-brutality-black-lives-matter-hit-home-with-the-cardalls-duane-margaret

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  • 2 months later...

Interesting video about some ambiguites pertaining to the "Black Lives Matter" movement:

 

 

Thanks,

-Smac

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm sorry Smac if this doesn't work on this thread, but recently listened to a podcast that politics are replacing religion. I can't start topics but really wanted feedback on if this is true at this time. Didn't want to say anything against board rules but thought it vague enough to ask. Does politics do more to affect the world than religion? During this time, it feels like it has much more influence sadly. Here's the podcast: https://sunstonemagazine.com/e84-politics-is-religion-now-and-thats-terrible-news-for-mormonism/

Edited by Tacenda
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