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Mike Lee compares Trump to Captain Moroni

Sevenbak

By Sevenbak
in General Discussions

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pogi Grand Master

pogi

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

Then I must assume you're not supporting Joe Biden simply because you agree with his political agenda.

I am voting for him because he is the lesser of two evils.  I usually vote Republican.  I don't pretend that Biden is a Captain Moroni.  I don't polish him up and defend his faults. 

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rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, pogi said:

Trump = power hungry. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/14/trump-power-constitution-coronavirus/

Trump: ‘Nobody’s ever done a better job than I’m doing as president’

I somehow can't imagine Captain Moroni saying that. 

A few more:

I Am The Best: A Prose Poem By Donald J. Trump

On trade, there’s nobody more conservative than me. I’m the most conservative when it comes to military, when it comes to the border, when it comes to security, when it comes to illegal immigration: all of these things. I think I’m the most conservative person there is. I am the only one who can fix our southern border. There is nobody more against Obamacare than me. 

Trump, the peacemaker...that is funny too. 

He has brought a dark cloud of division and rancor that has tarnished the office of the Presidency and displayed its ugly face all over Twitter.  Trump is more like a conquistador than a peace maker.

Honesty, decency, and goodness are not attributes that I would ascribe to Trump.  I would never use the word "sacred" and "Trump" in the same sentence.   He is cunning (I don't know if I would go as far as to say "wise") like a snake, however - and just as unflinchingly reactive to bite.  

At least Trump worked for a living. Biden has worked for the government his whole life. How do you become a multi-millionaire while working for the government?

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rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, pogi said:

Trump = power hungry. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/14/trump-power-constitution-coronavirus/

Trump: ‘Nobody’s ever done a better job than I’m doing as president’

I somehow can't imagine Captain Moroni saying that. 

A few more:

I Am The Best: A Prose Poem By Donald J. Trump

On trade, there’s nobody more conservative than me. I’m the most conservative when it comes to military, when it comes to the border, when it comes to security, when it comes to illegal immigration: all of these things. I think I’m the most conservative person there is. I am the only one who can fix our southern border. There is nobody more against Obamacare than me. 

Trump, the peacemaker...that is funny too. 

He has brought a dark cloud of division and rancor that has tarnished the office of the Presidency and displayed its ugly face all over Twitter.  Trump is more like a conquistador than a peace maker.

Honesty, decency, and goodness are not attributes that I would ascribe to Trump.  I would never use the word "sacred" and "Trump" in the same sentence.   He is cunning (I don't know if I would go as far as to say "wise") like a snake, however - and just as unflinchingly reactive to bite.  

At least Trump worked for a living. Biden has worked for the government his whole life. How do you become a multi-millionaire while working for the government?

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pogi Grand Master

pogi

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

Hmmmm, maybe because he's SIXTY EIGHT years old and not in great health? Maybe that?

 

I see, it had NOTHING to do with the fact that he was loyal to Trump?

 Should the president commute the sentence of all felons who are 68 and older with "medically controlled" conditions?  

This from the Judge whose judgment Trump corruptly dismissed:

Quote

 

Roger Stone’s underlying health issues are “medically controlled” and the prison he’s being sent to has no documented cases of coronavirus, and therefore he doesn’t merit an additional 60-day delay of his prison term, the judge in his case has determined in a newly unsealed opinion.

“By contrast, Mr. Stone was convicted of threatening a witness, and throughout the course of these criminal proceedings, the Court has been forced to address his repeated attempts to intimidate, and to stoke potentially violent sentiment against, an array of participants in the case, including individuals involved in the investigation, the jurors, and the Court,” Jackson wrote.

 

If he was so afraid of contracting the virus, why doesn't he ever wear a mask or social distance?  What a joke!  What a lie!  What corruption!  He was probably safer in prison. 

Edited by pogi
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bearhoof Enthusiast

bearhoof

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, pogi said:

he is the lesser of two evils.

A purely subjective measure. I'm also voting for the lesser of two evils. The guy who is opposed to abortion. The guy who believes Congress and the President should make laws, not unaccountable jurists. The guy who is not going to "transition away" from fossil fuels and raise my taxes. The guy who believes that religious freedom isn't just for Sunday in the chapel. The guy who isn't suing the Little Sisters of the Poor.

 

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pogi Grand Master

pogi

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

At least Trump worked for a living. Biden has worked for the government his whole life. How do you become a multi-millionaire while working for the government?

I am pretty sure you can look at his tax statements and follow the money. 

You can't do the same with Trump.  Why not?

Does Biden have zero business ventures or investments?

Edited by pogi
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stemelbow Grand Master

stemelbow

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, pogi said:

Again, would you denigrate President Lincoln for doing the same thing - killing other American's who disagreed with him. 

You are downplaying it to a simple "disagreement".   That is twisting.  In fact, there was more to the story than that. 

I don't know.  I mean it's a story so it's not that big of deal.  I'm not sure it can be ascertained by the text that they disagreement was something more than simple.  One wnated a government run by a king and another did not.  But here's what we got:

Quote

And it came to pass that those who were desirous that Pahoran should be dethroned from the judgment-seat were called aking-men, for they were desirous that the law should be altered in a manner to overthrow the free government and to establish a bking over the land.

So we got political differences.  Then:

Quote

And it came to pass that this matter of their contention was settled by the avoice of the people. And it came to pass that the voice of the people came in favor of the freemen, and Pahoran retained the judgment-seat, which caused much rejoicing among the brethren of Pahoran and also many of the people of liberty, who also put the king-men to silence, that they durst not oppose but were obliged to maintain the cause of freedom.

So as these disagreements rose it was settled by the voice of the people that the free-men should hold political office.  The king-men were bullied into silence by their political enemies, which included, apparently, Pahoran and Moroni.

Then the threat:

Quote

Amalickiah had again astirred up the hearts of the people of the Lamanites against the people of the Nephites, and he was gathering together soldiers from all parts of his land, and arming them, and preparing for war with all diligence; for he had bsworn

 

Moroni's life was threatened, apparently. Then:

Quote

And it came to pass that when the men who were called king-men had heard that the Lamanites were coming down to battle against them, they were glad in their hearts; and they refused to take up arms, for they were so wroth with the chief judge, and also with the apeople of bliberty, that they would not take up arms to defend their country.

14 And it came to pass that when Moroni saw this, and also saw that the Lamanites were coming into the borders of the land, he was exceedingly wroth because of the astubbornness of those people whom he had labored with so much diligence to preserve; yea, he was exceedingly wroth; his soul was filled with anger against them.

Later we learn that many of these king men were killed by Moroni's army, so it's tough to take the winner's description at face value.  Were they glad in their hearts really?  Did they really say they would not take up arms to defend themselves and their country or was this an excuse to have them murdered due to disagreement?  How would anyone know whether they were secretly glad or not?  All of them?  Is there a reason they are all treated as the same person, or that they are generalized about?  Don't know...do we?  The story doesn't really make sense, so when that happens it is likely that the reality, as if this story represents something that really happened, is something a bit different.  It's likely they felt hurt that their favored politics lost.  It was likely that they were sad about it.  It is less likely that they were happy someone might come and kill them and their countrymen.  THat doesn't make sense.  

 

So:

Quote

And it came to pass that he sent a petition, with the voice of the people, unto the governor of the land, desiring that he should read it, and give him (Moroni) power to compel those dissenters to defend their country or to put them to death.

16 For it was his first care to put an end to such contentions and dissensions among the people; for behold, this had been hitherto a cause of all their destruction. And it came to pass that it was granted according to the voice of the people.

17 And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.

18 And it came to pass that the armies did march forth against them; and they did pull down their pride and their nobility, insomuch that as they did lift their weapons of war to fight against the men of Moroni they were hewn down and leveled to the earth.

19 And it came to pass that there were four thousand of those adissenters who were hewn down by the sword; and those of their leaders who were not slain in battle were taken and bcast into prison, for there was no time for their trials at this period.

20 And the remainder of those dissenters, rather than be smitten down to the earth by the sword, yielded to the standard of liberty, and were compelled to hoist the atitle of liberty upon their towers, and in their cities, and to take up arms in defence of their country.

So, without apparently provocation to battle, Moroni sought/took power and authority from Pahoran so he could go and kill these citizens who disagreed with him, all because, apparently, he presumed in their hearts they were glad that the Lamanites were again wanting to battle.  Sounds like the winners, if this story represents reality, again, got to tell the story to fit their preference.  

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bearhoof Enthusiast

bearhoof

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, pogi said:

Does Biden have zero business ventures or investments?

Heck no, he's a shadow investor in Burisma, CEFC China Energy, Chinese military contractor AVIC, Bohai Harvest RST and probably many more. By all accounts, Biden is a world-class "investor."

Edited by bearhoof
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pogi Grand Master

pogi

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

A purely subjective measure. I'm also voting for the lesser of two evils. The guy who is opposed to abortion. The guy who believes Congress and the President should make laws, not unaccountable jurists. The guy who is not going to "transition away" from fossil fuels and raise my taxes. The guy who believes that religious freedom isn't just for Sunday in the chapel. The guy who isn't suing the Little Sisters of the Poor.

 

Abortion laws will be decided by the Supreme Court, not by the President.   I think we are safe there for some time.  What is evil about moving away from fossil fuels and towards cleaner energy?  Biden is a Catholic.  Either way, he can't touch religious freedom.   

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SeekingUnderstanding Grand Master

SeekingUnderstanding

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

Heck no, he's a shadow investor in Burisma, CEFC China Energy, Chinese military contractor AVIC, Bohai Harvest RST and probably many more. By all accounts, Biden is a world-class "investor."

Nope. Pretty easy to follow the money:
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2020/10/22/how-the-bidens-earned-167-million-after-leaving-the-white-house/#47f81f81e421

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding
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Tacenda Grand Master

Tacenda

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bearhoof said:

There is zero (actually less than zero) evidence that the President call our military dead "losers and suckers". That line was from an Atlantic hit-piece from "anonymous" sources. Over 20 people who were there have called the story false. It never happened.

I know he just mentioned it about Senator McCain for getting caught and put in prison camps.

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Meadowchik Grand Master

Meadowchik

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

I suspect that the folks who have their knickers in a knot over Mike Lee are perfectly happy with former BYU professor, confident and friend of the First Presidency, American Heritage guru, Frank W. Fox's trashing of the President. All depends on whose ox is being gored. 

A reasoned argument from an expert on American politics versus a comparison to a religious figurehead?

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Meadowchik Grand Master

Meadowchik

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

A purely subjective measure. I'm also voting for the lesser of two evils. The guy who is opposed to abortion. The guy who believes Congress and the President should make laws, not unaccountable jurists. The guy who is not going to "transition away" from fossil fuels and raise my taxes. The guy who believes that religious freedom isn't just for Sunday in the chapel. The guy who isn't suing the Little Sisters of the Poor.

 

No there are objective measures which can be taken.

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bearhoof Enthusiast

bearhoof

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, pogi said:

 I think we are safe there for some time.

Or maybe not. Under a Clinton presidency we would have three pro-abortion judges now serving on the Supreme Court. Because we don't, Joe Biden seems be planning to stack the court with 2, 4 or 6 abortion-friendly judges. Are we really safe from Abortion by decree from the black-robed justices? For now, yes. Under a Biden administration? Probably not.

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Meadowchik Grand Master

Meadowchik

Posted
Posted
Just now, bearhoof said:

Purely subjective. Here are two rebuttals to Fox's fact-free diatribe https://khadlock9697.medium.com/on-nevertrump-and-gaslighting-an-open-letter-to-frank-w-3190ffce656c

and

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oXSAGWpzwdoSel3EgwU44lKY2-pPhk7p/view?fbclid=IwAR0Q_Zz13oRoGX_dhCmMU4sk1N2YGp87KrOJN3gAuYot5jWhpLMMSP_azqM

 

Nope. Someone disagreeing or even trying to rebut him does not mean he was unreasonable.

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pogi Grand Master

pogi

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

Joe Biden seems be planning to stack the court with 2, 4 or 6 abortion-friendly judges. 

CFR

"Seems to be planning"?  Serious?

He said, he is "not a fan"

His history on the subject:

Quote

 

In the past, Biden has been upfront about his disdain for expanding the court. During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in 1983, he denounced President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's attempts to do so decades prior. And he again expressed opposition to the idea on the campaign trail in 2019.

"I would not get into court packing," Biden during a Democratic primary debate. "We add three justices. Next time around, we lose control, they add three justices. We begin to lose any credibility the court has at all."

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/13/923213582/biden-says-hes-not-a-fan-of-expanding-the-supreme-court

 

 

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Bob Crockett Grand Master

Bob Crockett

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, pogi said:

Abortion laws will be decided by the Supreme Court, not by the President.   I think we are safe there for some time.  What is evil about moving away from fossil fuels and towards cleaner energy?  Biden is a Catholic.  Either way, he can't touch religious freedom.   

Also, keep in mind that all Roe v. Wade did was to federalize the right to an abortion.  If it were overturned, the question of abortion would be left to the states.  Abortion was legal in my state, Washington, before Roe v. Wade. 

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pogi Grand Master

pogi

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, bearhoof said:

Biden was asked the same thing by reporters in Arizona: "[Voters will] know my opinion on court-packing when the election is over. He won't answer the question. We'll find out if he wins. I'm sure we can trust him.

He did answer the question.  My report is more recent.  

You have no evidence that he "seems to be planning on packing the court."  None.  Everything he has said suggests otherwise. 

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