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Post Mormon reaction to child abusers from their own community


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28 minutes ago, Sandra Day OTanner said:

Doing good work on Mormon Polygamy isn't a cover for exploiting the suffering of abuse victims to gain sympathy and attention for yourself, sorry.

I'm not saying it is. And you have not shown she has exploited victims. I won't take your word for it, and I am not sorry about that, by the way.

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8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Is this the famous Sandra Tanner? Welcome! I'm glad that you are no longer viewed as this evil person because of the info put out by you and your husband of church warts. I believe both of you wanted to get the truth. 

I'm kinda surprised that you have that take on LHP. I remember you attended a Sunstone at the two I've been to. 

 

I would not assume the poster is Sandra Tanner without verification.

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29 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Is this the famous Sandra Tanner? Welcome! I'm glad that you are no longer viewed as this evil person because of the info put out by you and your husband of church warts. I believe both of you wanted to get the truth. 

I'm kinda surprised that you have that take on LHP. I remember you attended a Sunstone at the two I've been to. 

 

To be very clear:  I am NOT that Sandra Tanner.  I was once considered for the Supreme Court but they messed up and called Sandra Day O'Connor

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I should simply step out of this conversation, but how McMullin managed to bring her being victimized by Lindsay Hansen Park and John Dehlin into this discussion is nutty.   

I'll repeat my previous comment in a different way, the sins that anyone, as I've seen, been able to squeeze out of McMullin since her accusations came out, demonstrate Dehlin and as a result LHP shouldn't possibly be considered anything near the predator Tom apparently was.  I will say she is being terribly dishonest with herself for perpetrating this mess.  

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23 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm not saying it is. And you have not shown she has exploited victims. I won't take your word for it, and I am not sorry about that, by the way.

Just read her facebook post.  The explotation is there.  Me me me me me me.  You don't need to take my word on anything.

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15 minutes ago, Sandra Day OTanner said:

Just read her facebook post.  The explotation is there.  Me me me me me me.  You don't need to take my word on anything.

I have read them, not convinced. Make a case if you want, but I think I need more information to draw such a conclusion.

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9 hours ago, Sandra Day OTanner said:

Calm:

You may want to slow your roll.  Anne is "Rosebud" and as "Rosebud", had accused John Dehlin of "abuse" because the two of them entered a consensual adulterous relationship.  All of these Medium articles are is the latest "Rosebud" attempt to set herself up as some expert on Mormon abuse.  But rather than actually come out with specific accusations against John, Rosebud simply hints and dodges when asked for any level of detail.

Rosebud is not to be trusted.  The only thing she's an expert on is defaming a man's character in such a way as to dodge legal consequences.

What is next? That her skirt was too short? She was drinking? What a perfect example of the problem I am trying to address. 

 

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55 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I should simply step out of this conversation, but how McMullin managed to bring her being victimized by Lindsay Hansen Park and John Dehlin into this discussion is nutty.   

I'll repeat my previous comment in a different way, the sins that anyone, as I've seen, been able to squeeze out of McMullin since her accusations came out, demonstrate Dehlin and as a result LHP shouldn't possibly be considered anything near the predator Tom apparently was.  I will say she is being terribly dishonest with herself for perpetrating this mess.  

That is the standard in the post/exmo community? What number of victims is required before it counts? How many protests is a victim allowed before she is labeled nutty? It's almost like there never was a MeToo movement that addressed all this....

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1 hour ago, Sandra Day OTanner said:

Doing good work on Mormon Polygamy isn't a cover for exploiting the suffering of abuse victims to gain sympathy and attention for yourself, sorry.

Go away. 

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2 hours ago, Sister-wife said:

Thanks to everyone for sharing. This Tom Kimball's wife of the last 2 1/2 years.

Tom's death has been devastating and confusing to many who loved him.

I hope you take the opportunity to view his memorial service. We did our best to honor his victims while we shared the goodness he created in our lives that we'll cling to. Tom Kimball was not a good man. I started discovering this truth about 6 months into the marriage. With Tom, I thought I had found my person. Instead, I had found a person with a deep darkness and ugly secrets who, I believe, spent his life trying to convince himself and everyone else that he was good.

The last week of Tom's life, he repeated to me several times, "I'm a good person." When I finally told him (on the last day of his life) that I knew about his sexual abuse and told him, "You're not behaving like a good person," rather than humbling himself and apologizing for his actions, he lashed out, telling me I wasn't being fair to him. I won't go into my response, but you can I imagine my rebuttal.

Tom killed himself, not because he was depressed, but because he was afraid to go to jail.

I hope you'll honor his family and all of his other victims by viewing/sharing his memorial service and continuing to raise awareness about the cycles of abuse. You can find the video of the memorial on the Anderson and Son's (Am Fork) website.

 What a group of impressive children! I thought the way this difficult situation was handled was extraordinary.  I am also a widow and cannot imagine having to deal with what you are on top of that. Bless you. 

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3 hours ago, Sister-wife said:

Thanks to everyone for sharing. This Tom Kimball's wife of the last 2 1/2 years.

Tom's death has been devastating and confusing to many who loved him.

I hope you take the opportunity to view his memorial service. We did our best to honor his victims while we shared the goodness he created in our lives that we'll cling to. Tom Kimball was not a good man. I started discovering this truth about 6 months into the marriage. With Tom, I thought I had found my person. Instead, I had found a person with a deep darkness and ugly secrets who, I believe, spent his life trying to convince himself and everyone else that he was good.

The last week of Tom's life, he repeated to me several times, "I'm a good person." When I finally told him (on the last day of his life) that I knew about his sexual abuse and told him, "You're not behaving like a good person," rather than humbling himself and apologizing for his actions, he lashed out, telling me I wasn't being fair to him. I won't go into my response, but you can I imagine my rebuttal.

Tom killed himself, not because he was depressed, but because he was afraid to go to jail.

I hope you'll honor his family and all of his other victims by viewing/sharing his memorial service and continuing to raise awareness about the cycles of abuse. You can find the video of the memorial on the Anderson and Son's (Am Fork) website.

Thank you for sharing.  Our thoughts and prayers go out to you and family members. 

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34 minutes ago, Sandra Day OTanner said:

Why defend someone who used these victims to stroke her own need for attention on Facebook?

Isn't the whole point of this thread that ex-mo's have an obvious double standard when it comes to abuse cases among their own?  LHP is a perfect example of that.  Exmos have a huge hypocrisy problem because if this had been a Mormon, we would never hear the end of it.  I mean, they are still harping on that perv Stake Pres (?) who videotaped women in changing rooms.

Poster removed. 

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1 hour ago, Sandra Day OTanner said:

To be very clear:  I am NOT that Sandra Tanner.  I was once considered for the Supreme Court but they messed up and called Sandra Day O'Connor

Oh, I apologize. The avatar pic threw me off.

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3 minutes ago, Sister-wife said:

Thanks to everyone for sharing. This Tom Kimball's wife of the last 2 1/2 years.

Tom's death has been devastating and confusing to many who loved him.

I hope you take the opportunity to view his memorial service. We did our best to honor his victims while we shared the goodness he created in our lives that we'll cling to. Tom Kimball was not a good man. I started discovering this truth about 6 months into the marriage. With Tom, I thought I had found my person. Instead, I had found a person with a deep darkness and ugly secrets who, I believe, spent his life trying to convince himself and everyone else that he was good.

The last week of Tom's life, he repeated to me several times, "I'm a good person." When I finally told him (on the last day of his life) that I knew about his sexual abuse and told him, "You're not behaving like a good person," rather than humbling himself and apologizing for his actions, he lashed out, telling me I wasn't being fair to him. I won't go into my response, but you can I imagine my rebuttal.

Tom killed himself, not because he was depressed, but because he was afraid to go to jail.

I hope you'll honor his family and all of his other victims by viewing/sharing his memorial service and continuing to raise awareness about the cycles of abuse. You can find the video of the memorial on the Anderson and Son's (Am Fork) website.

I watched it and was amazed with the service, so raw but so affective at getting truth to the forefront. His children sharing the fun moments and scary ones too. They are to be commended, all of you do. This is quite a rare funeral, the deceased isn't painted as a good person when they weren't. My brother had some of those tendencies but he wasn't a sexual abuser, maybe an emotional one and addicted to alcohol and over and over expects his wife to take him back. Not really accepting accountability. Hopefully generations going forward will stop the chain of abuse because of yours and others' openness. 

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On 10/15/2020 at 12:31 PM, juliann said:

Tom Kimball committed suicide yesterday. He was active in Mormon Studies. I had very brief interaction with him in my Claremont days.  It sounds bad, Lindsay Hansen Park says he was "prolific." (Almost all available information is on her FB page which seems to be public.) Apparently, there are victim statements and he was about to pay the price. Of interest is that he had participated in a podcast about....child abuse in the church.

I am not interested in details, what I am interested in is the difference in reactions to the same behavior when it occurs with practicing Mormons as opposed to critics of Mormonism. I have seen the same 'ol song, it is the upbringing in the church that invites sexual impropriety. I have seen a lot of apologetic responses as to what a good guy he was, a shocking number. It wasn't that long ago that Exponent II finally broke the silence about the surprising number of sexually predatory men in the exmo community preying on those leaving the church, they even named some..... with the same blaming of their Mormon past. 

I do not see practicing Mormons getting any careful treatment from the critics. And to be honest, I find it hard to believe that after all of this time no one had any awareness, thus responsibility, at all. It seems it should be just another story about how sexual abusers get away with it for so long rather than the walking on eggshells treatment I am seeing so far. 

 

I'm curious to understand why you are using this event to malign those who have left the church?  Seems odd to use the reaction of random people who's only connection is their former beliefs as a club to beat that collective group up with.  Seems dangerous to me to judge any individual, be they a believer or non believer,  with the presumed actions of some members of a group to which they affiliate with.  Just Saying.

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6 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I'm curious to understand why you are using this event to malign those who have left the church?  Seems odd to use the reaction of random people who's only connection is their former beliefs as a club to beat that collective group up with.  Seems dangerous to me to judge any individual, be they a believer or non believer,  with the presumed actions of some members of a group to which they affiliate with.  Just Saying.

I am interested in why you see this "I am not interested in details, what I am interested in is the difference in reactions to the same behavior when it occurs with practicing Mormons as opposed to critics of Mormonism." as maligning those who have left the church. Are they immune from inspection? Why? Do you say this about them criticizing the LDS church for their failures? 

Seriously, isn't it time for the concern to be centered on the victims and how we can protect them than demanding one group be exempted from any examination?

 

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25 minutes ago, juliann said:

I am interested in why you see this "I am not interested in details, what I am interested in is the difference in reactions to the same behavior when it occurs with practicing Mormons as opposed to critics of Mormonism." as maligning those who have left the church. Are they immune from inspection? Why? Do you say this about them criticizing the LDS church for their failures? 

Seriously, isn't it time for the concern to be centered on the victims and how we can protect them than demanding one group be exempted from any examination?

 

I do not know Tom Kimball, I've never met him although I am familiar with who he was, or presented publicly being.  I want to make clear pedophilia, be it engaged by an active member of the church or a former member of the church has absolutely nothing to do with the church. Irrespective of what might cause anyone to act out on pedophilia, the church is not one of its ingredients. 

The church is just as innocent as any other victim of pedophilia.

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40 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I do not know Tom Kimball, I've never met him although I am familiar with who he was, or presented publicly being.  I want to make clear pedophilia, be it engaged by an active member of the church or a former member of the church has absolutely nothing to do with the church. Irrespective of what might cause anyone to act out on pedophilia, the church is not one of its ingredients. 

The church is just as innocent as any other victim of pedophilia.

I think it fair to say that some situations unintentionally provide predators hunting grounds, that is going to happen wherever children gather.  That is a valid observation. But I have seen too many outright statements that the church causes sexual abuse and maintains it as if they stand apart from the rest of society. I think we have all been on a learning curve about how prevalent this is, I think it is natural to want to find some excuse for it. People can lament the break down of society and such, but we are becoming so much more aware and protective of the vulnerable through hard learned lessons and that has to be counted as a positive trajectory to be welcomed.

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3 hours ago, juliann said:

That is the standard in the post/exmo community? What number of victims is required before it counts? How many protests is a victim allowed before she is labeled nutty? It's almost like there never was a MeToo movement that addressed all this....

I'm not sure I'm following you.  One victim counts.  But there has to be a victim.  If Dehlin did something abusive to McMullin, vague allusions to LHP masking Dehlin isn't sufficient to suggest there was abuse.  As I recall, as McMullin, who was always vaguely accusatory, was most vocal about Dehlin's misdeeds there was very little reason to conclude abuse.  She accused Dehlin of assaulting her, one night.  When I sympathized, ready to accept the accusation she explained by saying with clarity that Dehlin's misdeed was found in his manipulation holding her attention during an emotional affair.  I asked her if he touched her inappropriately, because that is what she initially indicated, and she said no.  If Dehlin used his influence to punish her, which I think she contended, thereafter, he did, then that is a terrible thing.  But certainly that does not put him anything near the predator Kimball was; and thus, even granting her final accusation, Dehlin does not belong in the discussion.  That's my take.  

Oddly, McMullin was extremely clear in suggesting to be a true victim advocate one must not act the victim him/herself.  And yet in seemingly the same breath she claimed to be a victim of LHP and Dehlin.  It was terribly messy.  I don't see how LHP victim masked for Dehlin, thus personally hurting McMullin.  

Victims certainly deserve to be heard, deserve to be listened and should not be dismissed.  But, as I said, they must be victims of something in order to even get us there.  I don't really know what McMullin was victim to.  A bad adulterous relationship?  Yes, that's sucks for all involved, no doubt.  But discussion of her problems don't really fit when discussing the type of abuse we're dealing with concerning Tom.  

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9 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

... Victims certainly deserve to be heard, deserve to be listened and should not be dismissed.  But, as I said, they must be victims of something in order to even get us there.  I don't really know what McMullin was victim to.  A bad adulterous relationship?  Yes, that's sucks for all involved, no doubt.  But discussion of her problems don't really fit when discussing the type of abuse we're dealing with concerning Tom.  

+1.

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The church is a easy target for church critics especially when the perpetrator is someone who holds a trusted position in church leadership.  But just as with Tom Kimball, the pedophile can easily disguise themselves and their abusive activities behind the veneer of the false image they've manufactured within their community over the years.  The abused child is not the only victim of pedophilia, let's not forget the spouses, children and other family members of the abuser, their friends and ward members or in the case of the non member their circle of influence. 

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1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Victims certainly deserve to be heard, deserve to be listened and should not be dismissed.  But, as I said, they must be victims of something in order to even get us there.  I don't really know what McMullin was victim to.  A bad adulterous relationship?  Yes, that's sucks for all involved, no doubt.  But discussion of her problems don't really fit when discussing the type of abuse we're dealing with concerning Tom.  

Thanks  for the additional context, stem.  That is helpful.

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6 hours ago, Sandra Day OTanner said:

To be very clear:  I am NOT that Sandra Tanner.  I was once considered for the Supreme Court but they messed up and called Sandra Day O'Connor

Cool!  Where did you go to law school?  Have you clerked for anybody I would know?  What are you doing these days?  Are you a judge?  Which president considered nominating you for SCOTUS?

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I want to ask a sincere question, Admin, if it is not appropriate, you can delete it.

 

I've read Lindsay Hansen Park's FB post regarding Tom Kimball.  In that post there is an assertion that Heber C. Kimball set into motion the multi generational abuse of children AKA pedophilia within the Kimball family and that Tom is just one of both its many victims and abusers within the Kimball family.  As far as I am concerned this is hearsay until there is evidence to support this assertion.  So my question:  Is there any evidence of this generational victimization and abuse within the Kimball family?

Edited by Fair Dinkum
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