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The natural man versus a saint


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25 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I have noticed several times that he is not even aware of these doctrines much less the ideas themselves.

I think he is a troll- he persists in asking questions which are not even coherent from our perspectives because he does not know what we believe,  He thinks he has found a "gotcha" which is not even a real issue for us.

I now believe this is the most likely explanation, Mark. There’s always a big letdown when a troll thinks he’s found the ultimate gotcha question that will finally pin those pesky Mormons against the wall, but then the seemingly devastating rhetorical weapon ends up being an ineffectual dud. Either that or there’s an inability to stretch the mind to accommodate the perfect love and abundant mercy of God.

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Iirc, tel has stated before they are not a member. I believe they shared they were Protestant. 

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Iirc, tel has stated before they are not a member. I believe they shared they were Protestant. 

Ok fine then.

It seems to me I have asked him before and he insisted he was LDS.   I suppose it would be easy enough to look up if anybody cares enough to do so.  But it seems the stuff he brings up are straight out of a really bad anti-Mormon site.

No we don't eat babies in the temple.  ;)

 

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On 11/21/2020 at 4:30 PM, teddyaware said:

Now you’ve got me wondering if you’re a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. If you are a member of the Church, have you not been taught about God’s plan of salvation for the dead? Have you not read and understood Doctrine and Covenants 138 which teaches, in perfect plainness, that those who once rejected the prophets and the message of salvation while on earth are given the opportunity to again be taught the gospel and accept its saving message in the spirit world after death?

Again, why do you not seem to understand that the death of the mortal body doesn’t occur in the eyes of God until that day when temple work for the dead comes to an end, and there are no longer living proxies who vicariously stand in for the dead and receive the ordinances of salvation as if they are alive in the flesh and standing in the presence of the temple officiators?

The apostle Peter reveals he perfectly understood the wonderfully merciful doctrines pertaining to the salvation of the dead when he taught that even the desperately wicked spirits who died in the flood of judgement of Noah’s day are given the opportunity to again be taught the gospel, embrace its saving message, and thereafter be judged by God as if they are still living in the flesh.

No, I am not a member.  Thank you for that information. I just saw things written in other
parts of the Book of Mormon that said differently.

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3 hours ago, telnetd said:

No, I am not a member.  Thank you for that information. I just saw things written in other
parts of the Book of Mormon that said differently.

Do you believe the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached to the dead who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel message prior to death?

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On 11/21/2020 at 4:30 PM, teddyaware said:

If you are a member of the Church, have you not been taught about God’s plan of salvation for the dead? Have you not read and understood Doctrine and Covenants 138 which teaches, in perfect plainness, that those who once rejected the prophets and the message of salvation while on earth are given the opportunity to again be taught the gospel and accept its saving message in the spirit world after death

Wikipedia gives an approximation of the top genocides by death in the last few hundred years.

Has the LDS Church performed proxy baptisms for the Nazis (including Hitler) and the Khmer
Rouge soldiers (including Pol Pot) and believes these wicked people have been saved?

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4 hours ago, theplains said:

Wikipedia gives an approximation of the top genocides by death in the last few hundred years.

Has the LDS Church performed proxy baptisms for the Nazis (including Hitler) and the Khmer
Rouge soldiers (including Pol Pot) and believes these wicked people have been saved?

 

4 hours ago, theplains said:

Wikipedia gives an approximation of the top genocides by death in the last few hundred years.

Has the LDS Church performed proxy baptisms for the Nazis (including Hitler) and the Khmer
Rouge soldiers (including Pol Pot) and believes these wicked people have been saved?

For all who have not committed the unpardonable sin, there is a possibility of being saved. By very definition, pardonable sins are pardonable. And since the atoning sacrifice of Christ is infinite and eternal in saving power, scope and efficacy, all sins are forgivable except for the sins of those who don’t want to be forgiven. The ultimate reason why some sins are unforgivable is because God can’t forgive the sins of those who steadfastly refuse to come unto Christ in humble repentance even up to the moment of the final judgement when there is “time no more.”

As far as whether or not the bloody tyrants you mention have repented of their crimes and received forgiveness, short of receiving a special revelation from God there’s no way of knowing their fate until the the day of the final judgement. But one thing we Latter-Day Saints know for sure is that the wicked who have committed the worst crimes against God and man are punished in the fires of hell for at least a thousand years in order to determine if they are capable of humbling themselves enough to obtain forgiveness for their crimes.

Christ’s atonement is of such limitless salvific power that if a person demonstrates he is capable of feeling genuine remorse of conscience and  repenting with a broken heart and  authentic contrition, he can at least be saved in the lowest heavenly realm of post-resurrection heavenly glory. And since the redemptive power of Christ can completely undo and fully heal the baleful effects of all the crimes and injustices that have ever been committed, there is no need to punish a criminal forever because the damage he creates is temporary.

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1 minute ago, teddyaware said:

 

For all who have not committed the unpardonable sin, there is a possibility of being saved. By very definition, pardonable sins are pardonable. And since the atoning sacrifice of Christ is infinite and eternal in saving power, scope and efficacy, all sins are forgivable except for the sins of those who don’t want to be forgiven. The ultimate reason why some sins are unforgivable is because God can’t forgive the sins of those who steadfastly refuse to come unto Christ in humble repentance even up to the moment of the final judgement when there is “time no more.”

As far as whether or not the bloody tyrants you mention have repented of their crimes and received forgiveness, short of receiving a special revelation from God there’s no way of knowing their fate until the the day of the final judgement. But one thing we Latter-Day Saints know for sure is that the wicked who have committed the worst crimes against God and man are punished in the fires of hell for at least a thousand years in order to determine if they are capable of humbling themselves enough to obtain forgiveness for their crimes.

Christ’s atonement is of such limitless salvific power that if a person demonstrates he is capable of feeling genuine remorse of conscience and repents with a broken heart and  authentic contrition, he can at least be saved in the lowest heavenly realm of post-resurrection glory. And since the redemptive power of Christ can completely undo and fully heal the baleful effects of all the crimes and injustices that have ever been committed, there is no need to punish a criminal forever because the damage he creates is temporary.

 

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