Conference Discussion

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Now i can’t find the transcripts anymore. Were they put up and taken down again? Or was this an internet miracle? In the absence of evidence to the contrary I will believe the latter.

It is up for me.  I went to the General Conference link below the pictures and then clicked on his talk.

[stemelbow]

15 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm sorry, but, as Elder David A. Bednar of the Twelve once said with respect to the Parable of the Ten Virgins, the Five Wise Virgins weren't simply being selfish when they told the Five Foolish ones that the former couldn't spare any oil for the latter.  The oil wasn't for the Five Wise to give, not because they didn't want to give it, but, rather, because the way it was acquired was such that it simply could not be shared.  I cannot give you the oil from my lamp for the same reason.  That would be as if you had asked me to give you a testimony of your own, and that isn't how it works.  I cannot tell you what the Holy Spirit should have or would have told you if you had paid more attention to General Conference.

What makes you think you have oil and I do not?  Or what gives you the impression that you are favored or blessed by God and I am not?  

15 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

The "oil" for my lamp was acquired, not by a few large purchases in which I made runs on the store because I knew that if I didn't get it, I would end up in short supply, but, rather, drop by drop, through thousands of small experiences that I wouldn't expect to be as significant to someone else as they are to me.  At one point, the same was true of you, and I wouldn't expect your drop-by-drop experiences to be as significant to anyone else as they are (or at least, as they were, at one point) to you.  I acquired a few more drops of oil for my lamp from General Conference, but they're for me, they're not for anyone else.

So you see oil, drop by drop, building up as people have "spiritual experiences"?  

15 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

While I could share my testimony with you, I cannot give you your own testimony.  That's a matter between you, your Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit.  I could tell you what the Holy Spirit told me, but I wouldn't expect that to mean anything to you because it would be me talking to you about what the Holy Spirit told me, not the Holy Spirit talking to you and telling you something that you need to know.  The latter is the only thing that matters, not the former. As I said before, if I were to try, essentially to "give you a testimony" by telling you what I found meaningful from General Conference, I would expect, fully, and I think, rightly, for you to quote the great Shania Twain and say, "That don't impress me much."  Well, duh!  Of course "it don't impress [you] much" (nor should it) because it's not your inspiration/revelation/etc.

I didn't ask to be impressed.  I simply asked to keep informed.  But alas, it doesn't matter at this point.  

[Kenngo1969]

7 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

What makes you think you have oil and I do not?  Or what gives you the impression that you are favored or blessed by God and I am not?  

 

Nothing, since I didn't say either one of those things.

[stemelbow]

14 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Nothing, since I didn't say either one of those things.

Sorry for the confusion. I thought when you spoke of oil in your lamp that you cannot give to me, as if you were suggesting you had oil I did not.  Would you say we both have oil in our lamps? Or are you saying, we don't really know if anyone has real oil in their lamps or not?  Some may think they have oil, but they do not.  Or something?  

Edited October 7, 2020 by stemelbow

[Rain]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I wasn't aware that the talks have been written up already, and glad the footnote is there. I can see how one could make the mistake of saying it that way without meaning too. Thanks!

I have discovered the written notes can be really cool.  I was going through them for something and recently so add quite a bit more to their talk or include different quotes etc.

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Sorry for the confusion. I thought when you spoke of oil in your lamp that you cannot give to me, as if you were suggesting you had oil I did not.  Would you say we both have oil in our lamps? Or are you saying, we don't really know if anyone has real oil in their lamps or not?  Some may think they have oil, but they do not.  Or something?  

I do have oil in my lamp that I cannot give to you: It's called a testimony, and each of us must gain it for himself.  Nobody else can tell you how much oil you have in your lamp (except for God, since He is the One, who, through His Spirit, gave it to you).  Likewise, nobody else can tell me how much oil I  have in my lamp (except for God, since He is the One, who, through His Spirit, gave it to me).

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I do have oil in my lamp that I cannot give to you: It's called a testimony, and each of us must gain it for himself.  Nobody else can tell you how much oil you have in your lamp (except for God, since He is the One, who, through His Spirit, gave it to you).  Likewise, nobody else can tell me how much oil I  have in my lamp (except for God, since He is the One, who, through His Spirit, gave it to me).

The parable is interesting because it seems to suggest half of believers will not have sufficient oil when the grand event happens and will be coldly turned away.  If so many believers end up rejected by God, how many nonbelievers one might wonder.  hmm..

Still amazed at how good you are at switching from bold, italicized and regular for emphasis on that which you wish to emphasize.  I just spit it out and let the emphasis fall on the shoulders of the reader...cause I'm lazy.  

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

The parable is interesting because it seems to suggest half of believers will not have sufficient oil when the grand event happens and will be coldly turned away.  If so many believers end up rejected by God, how many nonbelievers one might wonder.  hmm..

Still amazed at how good you are at switching from bold, italicized and regular for emphasis on that which you wish to emphasize.  I just spit it out and let the emphasis fall on the shoulders of the reader...cause I'm lazy.  

I never liked the virgins/oil/lamps stories. Maybe because the prude I was, I didn't like that they were labled virgins and what, they were all Christ's girlfriends? That was my shallow take. But I've grown up now and get the gist of it, just don't know why they were virgins that were supposed to represent the world.

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I never liked the virgins/oil/lamps stories. Maybe because the prude I was, I didn't like that they were labled virgins and what, they were all Christ's girlfriends? That was my shallow take. But I've grown up now and get the gist of it, just don't know why they were virgins that were supposed to represent the world.

Its definitely plays off archaic motifs of thinking women are best if they are virgins and all of that.  Men virgins?  Well that's a silly notion for those old days.  It would have been a bit more interesting though if the parable was Jesus had 10 boyfriends.  Also it makes ya wonder, did he end up whittling those remaining 5 down to 1 or does he keep them all?  I wonder what implication that has on the parable.  Maybe half of believers are let in, but only 1 really gets the prize...or whatever.  The rest are left to lesser kingdoms of stations.  Or, maybe those who have oil have to, in essence, share their spouse and that's the type of joy heaven is.  Certainly feels like there is more we can squeeze out of this if we were in tune.  

[rodheadlee]

The people with no oil in their lamps are hypocrites. They profess to know Christ but have no charity in their hearts. No charity = no Celestial kingdom. 

1st Corinthians 13 all verses.

Edited October 9, 2020 by rodheadlee

[Islander]

On 10/3/2020 at 11:44 AM, JAHS said:

Elder Cook said our church culture comes from the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a judaic or gentile culture. while we rejoice in distinctive cultures we should leave behind aspects of those cultures that conflict with the gospel
He mentioned that paul wanted the saints to leave behind cultural impediments that are not consistent with the Gospel.
I am wondering what specific cultural aspects he is talking about.

Whatever those may be. In some cultures drinking alcohol is a well established, sanctioned and expected custom. It is not uncommon for people to allow children to "sample" wine, beer or spiked fruit punch, for example.

In some cultures men (males from a family and friends) gather in places and situations that are incompatible with Gospel living. Breaking away from those culturally bound practices can be hard. Gossip (primarily among women) is a notable past time in some cultures. There are many behaviors that converts need to discard when they embrace the Gospel and it can be a tortuous process.

[stemelbow]

15 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

The people with no oil in their lamps are hypocrites. They profess to know Christ but have no charity in their hearts. No charity = no Celestial kingdom. 

1st Corinthians 13 all verses.

What makes you think the parable is focusing on people who have been hypocritical?  

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Islander said:

Gossip (primarily among women) is a notable past time in some cultures

Because the men sitting around in groups at the fires, gates, or doors primarily talked politics or philosophy?

In the US culture (using article because study is behind paywall):

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/men-gossip-more-negatively-than-women-says-new-study.html

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, stemelbow said:

What makes you think the parable is focusing on people who have been hypocritical?  

One possibility is why the empty lamps?  Perhaps they want to appear like they are prepared without making the effort/investment. 

[Calm]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:07 PM, Tacenda said:

just don't know why they were virgins that were supposed to represent the world.

It may be translated as bridesmaids or young maidens. It would seem to emphasize youth and possibly innocence or ultimate dependence on others.  Some translate it as waiting for the bride and groom. 
 

What I know of wedding ceremonies, it seems highly unlikely they were there waiting for their own wedding ceremony as there was no family with them as there would be if they were getting married. Nor is there mention of any wedding clothing, etc. 

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, stemelbow said:

What makes you think the parable is focusing on people who have been hypocritical?  

Their actions don't match their words. They try to hide their black little hearts from God. ie. They have no charity. 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Their actions don't match their words. They try to hide their black little hearts from God. ie. They have no charity. 

You mean the ones who won’t share their oil?

If so, Spencer W Kimball suggest the oil is our testimonies, not something we can share.  As much charity as they had, they could not give their testimonies to others who hadn’t prepared their own. 
 

Another possibility is they were there to honor the bride and groom.  What charity would there be if all failed in that mission?  If they were bridesmaids there to escort the groom to the bride or the bride and groom to the wedding chamber, for example, they would need enough oil to accomplish that task. How unfortunate if by sharing they got halfway there and the lights went out?

[rodheadlee]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

You mean the ones who won’t share their oil?

If so, Spencer W Kimball suggest the oil is our testimonies, not something we can share.  As much charity as they had, they could not give their testimonies to others who hadn’t prepared their own. 
 

Another possibility is they were there to honor the bride and groom.  What charity would there be if all failed in that mission?  If they were bridesmaids there to escort the groom to the bride or the bride and groom to the wedding chamber, for example, they would need enough oil to accomplish that task. How unfortunate if by sharing they got halfway there and the lights went out?

Well I was thinking of the oil as the Holy Spirit. So perhaps I'm wrong. No charity = no Holy Spirit = no oil.

[Chum]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

One possibility is why the empty lamps?

I always figured the lamps belonged to the venue.

[Chum]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Because the men sitting around in groups at the fires, gates, or doors primarily talked politics or philosophy?

You aren't wrong.

I had one brother share something that I shouldn't have been privy to. After I parroted it to the bishop - Him: I'll never trust you with info like that again.  Me: That's right. You won't.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 10/5/2020 at 2:21 PM, stemelbow said:

Shoot guys. I get the defensiveness, but I was just curious if there was something worth noting.  I honestly tried to peek in a time or two over the course of my weekend, but things got in the way.  I heard a few lines from Elder Holland, and another fellow whom I didn't know.  But that was about it. 

There are some rock & roll and heavy metal groups which immediately turn on the TV when they get into the next hotel room, not because they want to actually listen to it, but only as comforting background noise.  When they're not performing.  If that is your wont, you are not likely to hear anything substantive or meaningful.

[Chum]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

You mean the ones who won’t share their oil?

If so, Spencer W Kimball suggest the oil is our testimonies, not something we can share.  As much charity as they had, they could not give their testimonies to others who hadn’t prepared their own. 
 

Another possibility is they were there to honor the bride and groom.  What charity would there be if all failed in that mission?  If they were bridesmaids there to escort the groom to the bride or the bride and groom to the wedding chamber, for example, they would need enough oil to accomplish that task. How unfortunate if by sharing they got halfway there and the lights went out?

The tone of permanent consequences for a single mistake has always bothered me. All learning is born from mistakes and all achievement is built on failures - usually a lot of them.

The scenario where lasting and persistent punishments are levied against a single transgression is right out of the adversary's alt plan of redemption - and also a pervasive part of modern society.

I genuinely wonder if a harsh interpretation of this parable had a hand in bringing that about.

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

One possibility is why the empty lamps?  Perhaps they want to appear like they are prepared without making the effort/investment. 

"We don't have any oil.  Ah, what the heck!  We should be able to beg, borrow, or steal some at some point, so if we just take our lamps, we should be good."  (Unfortunately, that attitude is probably pretty prevalent among members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.)

[InCognitus]

10 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

"We don't have any oil.  Ah, what the heck!  We should be able to beg, borrow, or steal some at some point, so if we just take our lamps, we should be good."  (Unfortunately, that attitude is probably pretty prevalent among members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.)

I always imagined that the great battle at the end of the world would center around an oil crisis.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

I always figured the lamps belonged to the venue.

Please explain.