Jump to content

Inclusivity


Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Ahab said:

Clark County?  Me?  No, I live in Cowlitz county Washington.  It is just north of a county called Clark county in Washington, though.  I don't understand why you referred to me as a Clark County Amboy, or any kind of  Amboy. ?

I also don't know the stadium you refer to as Mc___ Stadium.   I live in SW Washington if that's the neck of woods you are talking about and I am pleased that you talked to me too.

Yeah I was, but I still may not know what you are thinking about in regards to that thread.  I was forthright when sharing my views though, as I usually am, so I think you should have caught on to what I thought of Navidad's comments if you read what I wrote to him.

I think you and I do agree a lot about our perspective on this, even though we do not agree on which church is the one true church of Jesus Christ.  But at least we both believe there is only one true church of Jesus Christ and it does not include any church which is not that one.  So yeah, sure, we agree on this much.  And it wouldn't surprise me to hear that Navidad agrees with us on this idea too.  I think he just thinks about the one true church of Christ differently than we do, thinking it includes every church which claims to be a church of Jesus Christ... whether that church calls itself a Baptist church, or a Mennonite church, or whatever other name it may be called or known by.  

I think even devils can be nice if by nice you mean polite or having good manners.  People who are nice to others are not necessarily seeking to improve the welfare of others. Hannibal Lecter was portayed as a nice guy.

I say what I say to try to help people.  Truly I do.

But you have heard of Amboy...You must be in Woodland...you are not in Kalama?...Anyway...nevermind about all that. I miss Kelso/Longview and Woodland and Exit 49, Castle Rock, good truck stop. I am a little obsessed about home now. I lived there a long time and love it and miss it. I am so sorry about the fires. A daughter is in Vancouver still. Her pictures remind me of when Mt. St. Helens blew. I saw a van with Oregon plates in the church parking lot on Sunday as I left the 9:15 Mass here in nowhere, Kansas. They were probably already parked for the 11:30. I am a little ashamed to feel an affinity for Oregon; I shouldn't like Oregon...because I am Washingtonian...friendly rivalry...like Dominicans and Franciscans. But I have to admit an affinity. I almost went back to see who they were after breakfast, thinking we would be friends...mutual acquaintances perhaps. I did good. I did not go back. Just homesick. They would have taken me for the weirdo I am! Heh.

I believe and  agree with the rest of what you say Ahab about the other thread. Truly I do. God bless.

3DOP   

 

Edited by 3DOP
  • Like 1
Link to post
28 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

am so sorry about the fires.

Seeing a state map with all the fires marked is unsettling. 
 

Doesn’t help I keep hearing the helicopter that is perhaps still dumping water on hot spots on the mountain I see out our front windows. Fire lasted half a day as we lucked out with some light rain and missed out on the hurricane winds that took out so many trees up north. 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
19 hours ago, 3DOP said:

But you have heard of Amboy...You must be in Woodland...you are not in Kalama?...Anyway...nevermind about all that. I miss Kelso/Longview and Woodland and Exit 49, Castle Rock, good truck stop. I am a little obsessed about home now. I lived there a long time and love it and miss it. I am so sorry about the fires. A daughter is in Vancouver still. Her pictures remind me of when Mt. St. Helens blew. I saw a van with Oregon plates in the church parking lot on Sunday as I left the 9:15 Mass here in nowhere, Kansas. They were probably already parked for the 11:30. I am a little ashamed to feel an affinity for Oregon; I shouldn't like Oregon...because I am Washingtonian...friendly rivalry...like Dominicans and Franciscans. But I have to admit an affinity. I almost went back to see who they were after breakfast, thinking we would be friends...mutual acquaintances perhaps. I did good. I did not go back. Just homesick. They would have taken me for the weirdo I am! Heh.

I believe and  agree with the rest of what you say Ahab about the other thread. Truly I do. God bless.

3DOP   

 

Yep, Kalama, exit 30 off of I-5, for a little while longer.  I moved up here from Gresham Oregon about 14 years ago, after moving to Oregon in 1989,  and will be moving back to Oregon soon, to the Beaverton area near the Nike campus.  I've loved living up here, on 2 acres with a nice view of the Columbia river as it goes by to Longview, but my family/children need some financial assistance and God told me the best way to help them was to move in with the son who is still single while giving some money to the other son and his wife for their equity in that house where the single son is now living.  The 2 brothers had bought the house together while they were both single and the married one recently bought another house with his new wife and they need to get out of that mortgage, so my wife and I are essentially buying him out.  Plus the other son who still lives in the first house can't afford to pay the mortgage on his own and he still wants to live there instead of selling and the married son and his wife will be having a baby soon and we want to be closer to them too.  The house they are buying is just a few houses down the street from the other son's house so we will all be closer this way.  If I was rich with money I would be tempted to stay here in Kalama, only about an hour to drive to Beaverton, but I think it will be better for all of us to live closer together.  We'll add on to what will be our new home so it will be nicer for everybody.

And no. I have never heard of Amboy.  I'm originally from Texas and have lived in other states but have never heard of an Amboy.  I googled Amboy and see that there is one in California but I doubt that is what you are talking about.

And yes the smoke is terrible.  Please ask God to get rid of the smoke soon.  It's ruining our view from our house and will make our house not as easy to sell.  The market is hot though so we may be able to sell for a good price anyway.,

 

 

p.s.  Okay I googled Clark County Amboy and see what I think you mean now.  I think I've even driven by a sign to Amboy a few times while on my way to the Cougar area to ride quads.  Are you from there?

Edited by Ahab
  • Like 1
Link to post
On 9/16/2020 at 5:05 PM, Ahab said:

Yep, Kalama, exit 30 off of I-5, for a little while longer.  I moved up here from Gresham Oregon about 14 years ago, after moving to Oregon in 1989,  and will be moving back to Oregon soon, to the Beaverton area near the Nike campus.  I've loved living up here, on 2 acres with a nice view of the Columbia river as it goes by to Longview, but my family/children need some financial assistance and God told me the best way to help them was to move in with the son who is still single while giving some money to the other son and his wife for their equity in that house where the single son is now living.  The 2 brothers had bought the house together while they were both single and the married one recently bought another house with his new wife and they need to get out of that mortgage, so my wife and I are essentially buying him out.  Plus the other son who still lives in the first house can't afford to pay the mortgage on his own and he still wants to live there instead of selling and the married son and his wife will be having a baby soon and we want to be closer to them too.  The house they are buying is just a few houses down the street from the other son's house so we will all be closer this way.  If I was rich with money I would be tempted to stay here in Kalama, only about an hour to drive to Beaverton, but I think it will be better for all of us to live closer together.  We'll add on to what will be our new home so it will be nicer for everybody.

And no. I have never heard of Amboy.  I'm originally from Texas and have lived in other states but have never heard of an Amboy.  I googled Amboy and see that there is one in California but I doubt that is what you are talking about.

And yes the smoke is terrible.  Please ask God to get rid of the smoke soon.  It's ruining our view from our house and will make our house not as easy to sell.  The market is hot though so we may be able to sell for a good price anyway.,

 

 

p.s.  Okay I googled Clark County Amboy and see what I think you mean now.  I think I've even driven by a sign to Amboy a few times while on my way to the Cougar area to ride quads.  Are you from there?

Hi Ahab,

I grew up in what is now East Vancouver. It was dairy country and we were dairy farmers. Somehow, from other threads, I got the idea you were in our county. I got it right that you were to the north, but a little further north. Living along I-5, I can see how you could be from Texas, with a house in Kalama for 14 years, work in Beaverton, and never hear of Amboy, WA. Maybe you have never been to La Center, Battle Ground, or Ridgefield either, although I know you have seen the signs from the freeway.

We are now the newcomers in an area. It seems like I am always confessing how I do not know where a particular place is.

See you around.

Rory 

  • Like 2
Link to post
On 9/20/2020 at 8:14 AM, 3DOP said:

Hi Ahab,

I grew up in what is now East Vancouver. It was dairy country and we were dairy farmers. Somehow, from other threads, I got the idea you were in our county. I got it right that you were to the north, but a little further north. Living along I-5, I can see how you could be from Texas, with a house in Kalama for 14 years, work in Beaverton, and never hear of Amboy, WA. Maybe you have never been to La Center, Battle Ground, or Ridgefield either, although I know you have seen the signs from the freeway.

We are now the newcomers in an area. It seems like I am always confessing how I do not know where a particular place is.

See you around.

Rory 

Just to clear up a few details, I work in Portland for the City of Portland and didn't recall a town named Amboy because it is a tiny little town way way back in the woods and I have never been through it.  I've been through LaCenter a few times though, they have a nice little bakery there, and Ridgefield, the nearest Parr lumberyard is there, and Battleground too, all; 3 of which are much larger towns than Amboy and closer to where I go shopping.  Camas WA has grown quite a bit over the years and you would probably notice the improvements if you were to come back again.  I'm very familiar with Beaverton now because that is where my 2 sons live now and I have spent a lot of time there over the years.  And I'll be moving back there probably sometime within the next few months.

Link to post
On 9/13/2020 at 3:01 PM, 3DOP said:

Is the truth to be determined by its inclusivity? I could argue that the Catholic faith is inclusive. Truly. While there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, we are also instructed with all earnestness that we cannot know that any particular person is in Hell. There are extra-sacramental means for those who are not members of the Church to be saved by the Church. But I don't want to try to prove that we are inclusive. What difference does it make for our truth claims? It is all about perspective anyway. We are exclusive in some respects, and inclusive in others. But I do not see anywhere that anybody should win a prize for being the most inclusive in every respect. I do not see why anybody should be afraid to be understood as exclusive in many respects.

I am wondering where any of us here are told, by authority we accept, that we can identify the true religion by the standard of which religion is most inclusive. At most, we know that the most inclusive religion is the one we hope is true if we are in the wrong religion. Maybe I should talk about wide roads and narrow roads and where they lead. Is "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by me," inclusive? Let's quit trying to be the nicest religion. Would any of our founders have been trying to be the nicest? Not even those "churches" that thought to replace Rome were founded by people trying to be inclusive (nice). Being nice does not create the kind of motivational zeal that it takes to try to start a religious organization. The standard of being nice comes slower for some, Catholic and LDS?, faster for others ("churches" that try to replace Rome).  

If I was wrong about the Catholic faith (mind you this is a mere thought experiment), I would hope that the LDS message is true. The only good reason the "churches" that tried to replace Rome could have for making the attempt, is if the belief and practice of the Catholic faith leads to damnation. The only reason these people in those "churches" are supposedly inclusive of Catholic people, is because there might be Catholic people who reject Catholic teaching and practice. If I was wrong, I would not benefit from that kind of defective inclusivity. I believe everything the Catholic Church teaches, including the Gospel that is condemned as false by the "churches" that tried to replace Rome. That means I believe in indulgences, the veneration of the Virgin Mary, the treasury of the Saints, statues, icons, purgatory, faith and works for salvation, and any other doctrine that these "churches" that tried to replace Rome holds to be abominable. Protestant/Mennonite/Anabaptist inclusivity for Catholics must be logically limited to those who are Catholic in name only. If I was wrong in my faith, given the choice, I would opt for LDS inclusivity.     

This, of course, is the biggest problem with all of religion.  If there be a loving God then any religion, all religion or no religion would not matter.  If there be a God who hopes or knows that some will be in hell of whatever sort (like LDS' Terrestrial and Telestial lands), then what is such a god anyway?  A jealous one?  A hostile one?  A ignorant one?  A one who lacks compassion...one who lacks the ability to reach another...one who lacks success?  

What does it matter if one does not ascent to the correct words in the end?  Or one fails to accept a mundane ordinance?  What should matter is whether God has used his resources to teach each and everyone, embracing their ways, and forgiving their inborn weaknesses.  

My problem with religion?  They have made GOd a fool and then turn around and threaten everyone for not embracing the fool.  

Link to post
On 9/13/2020 at 11:01 PM, 3DOP said:

I am wondering where any of us here are told, by authority we accept, that we can identify the true religion by the standard of which religion is most inclusive. At most, we know that the most inclusive religion is the one we hope is true if we are in the wrong religion. Maybe I should talk about wide roads and narrow roads and where they lead. Is "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by me," inclusive? Let's quit trying to be the nicest religion. Would any of our founders have been trying to be the nicest? Not even those "churches" that thought to replace Rome were founded by people trying to be inclusive (nice). Being nice does not create the kind of motivational zeal that it takes to try to start a religious organization. The standard of being nice comes slower for some, Catholic and LDS?, faster for others ("churches" that try to replace Rome).  

True religion would receive guidance from Him whom it purports to worship and the expectation is that we worship a living being thus the Lord will direct according to the times and His will - the founders would not be welcome in today's world (of both religions), they were suited to their times; a religion that serves a living God would therefore always be inclusive but the true test of true-ness (imv): is sacrifice. Said Joseph Smith: Lecture 6:7: "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things, never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation". If we accept this to be true then the very sacrifice of one's "things" is the exclusivity that is required; the leaders of religion today are nice (inclusive), is it not because they are directed so to be? And if so, should we not also be nice and trust that it will be a sufficient motivational zeal? I'm not sure. I think we'd have to define 'nice' - if 'nice' means meek, then yes we should be nice; meek people aren't weak people, they're strong people, brave people who choose to be 'nice' rather than to be unkind; also meek people can disagree even with their leaders when its appropriate to do so and in an appropriate manner.

  • Like 1
Link to post
44 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

This, of course, is the biggest problem with all of religion.  If there be a loving God then any religion, all religion or no religion would not matter.  If there be a God who hopes or knows that some will be in hell of whatever sort (like LDS' Terrestrial and Telestial lands), then what is such a god anyway?  A jealous one?  A hostile one?  A ignorant one?  A one who lacks compassion...one who lacks the ability to reach another...one who lacks success?  

What does it matter if one does not ascent to the correct words in the end?  Or one fails to accept a mundane ordinance?  What should matter is whether God has used his resources to teach each and everyone, embracing their ways, and forgiving their inborn weaknesses.  

My problem with religion?  They have made GOd a fool and then turn around and threaten everyone for not embracing the fool.  

"If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:" sounds very similar to "If there be a loving God then any religion, all religion or no religion would not matter." The insidious 'if'; if there is a God then why...? or religion is true then shouldn't it...? or the very popular "if there was a God then why does he allow suffering?" Well my view is 'if' there was a God then he wouldn't be taking advice from a mere mortal like me nor would I dare to counsel him; furthermore, it is hoped that anyone who seeks to learn of God should seek such knowledge for themselves after careful study and prayer and to seek a divine confirmation with a real intent to know and with a sincere heart; without meeting these conditions: I don't think anyone can ever know, not though he saw an angel.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...