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Any Church-related Covid Outbreaks?


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26 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

(because hymn books are too dangerous to touch!) and...sing.  

My stake does not allow singing. This is based on outbreak studies and is wise. I've only had the opportunity to attend church in person once but the mask wearing was comical. Do you know how often the Deacons touched their mask while passing the sacrament? Next time I think I'll take notes. We should improve ventilation for our indoor spaces. That would help the most. I've read that with most masks, the air, instead of going out...just gets blown up and behind you instead. Masks catch droplets but the stuff in the air...it's in the air.

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41 minutes ago, longview said:

The seasonal flu does result in hundreds of thousands of deaths annually.  But please do NOT lockdown the economy.  There are plenty of other categories that result in more deaths every year.  Several of them with greater rate of deaths than covid.  It is apparent that covid has leveled off to seasonal flu rates.

according to the CDC in 2018-2019 there were 34, 200 deaths due to Flu, what is the US up to now with covid, like 210,000? and the year isn't over yet. Besides of which here we get a free flue shot😊

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37 minutes ago, longview said:

It appears that nursing homes have less protective measures than medical facilities.  Why are student workers allowed free reign of the place?  Are they regularly changing latex gloves and gowns and masks etc between patients?

I don't know what you are talking about. 

How are they less protective?  Free reign of the place?  Are there no student workers in medical facilities? Why would they even be wearing gloves and gowns if there are no indications for full PPE?  They don't do that in medical facilities either, where there are no indications.

37 minutes ago, longview said:

General Authorities are taking prudent precautions but I am betting they are not suffering any paranoia with the contagion.

Did I suggest that they should be suffering from paranoia?  It is you who is recommending that everyone who is at risk should isolate in a bubble, not me!  They are not isolating in a bubble.  Nor should they be expected to.  They are involved and engaged in the community.  That is why the community carries a moral obligation to try and protect them by protecting themselves - because they ARE at risk and they CAN'T isolate in a bubble. 

Edited by pogi
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5 hours ago, bsjkki said:

My stake does not allow singing. This is based on outbreak studies and is wise. I've only had the opportunity to attend church in person once but the mask wearing was comical. Do you know how often the Deacons touched their mask while passing the sacrament? Next time I think I'll take notes. We should improve ventilation for our indoor spaces. That would help the most. I've read that with most masks, the air, instead of going out...just gets blown up and behind you instead. Masks catch droplets but the stuff in the air...it's in the air.

A choir practice outbreak in our area was the what got the no-singing mandates off the ground. I

 Oh, those deacons! Imagine what a roomful of kindergarteners in masks would be like...those little cherubs coughing, sneezing, throwing up in their masks, fidgeting with them, putting them off and on all the time. That’s what we getting here soon. 

You could be the “Covid Czar” for your ward. 😉

Edited by Bernard Gui
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33 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Oh, those deacons! Imagine what a roomful of kindergarteners in masks would be like...those little cherubs coughing, sneezing, throwing up in their Maas is, fidgeting with them, putting them off and on all the time. That’s what we getting here soon. 

My 4 year old pre-schooler wears a mask every day in preschool.  So do his class mates.  At first, his school stated that preschoolers will not be required to wear masks because maybe they thought they were incompetent or something.  My wife called his teacher and told her that our son wears a mask well, and doesn't complain.  She asked if she could at least encourage (if not require) other parents to send their kids with masks?  The teacher said that she can't do it, because it is against the rules, or something.  My wife wrote a simple letter to the higher ups stating that preschool aged kids are competent and are not as stupid as many adults (she didn't really say that), and that it would make her feel more confident and safe sending her child if other parents were encouraged to send their kids with masks.  A week later, the school sent out a letter to all parents encouraging all kids (even preschoolers) to wear masks.  It has happened without a hitch.  All of his classmates wear them faithfully.  No throw up...yet.

 He wears it better than many adults I see whenever we take him out.  No complaining.  No tugging.  If he was coughing or sneezing, that is what the mask is there for!  Young kids have an incredible ability to learn and obey simple tasks like properly wearing a mask, when properly educated.  They are not as willfully defiant and careless like many adults are.  

Edited by pogi
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14 minutes ago, pogi said:

Young kids have an incredible ability to learn and obey simple tasks like properly wearing a mask, when properly educated.  They are not as willfully defiant and careless like many adults are.  

If two and three year olds can learn not to expose their butts whenever they want and not to stick their hands down into their pants to see what smells, four year olds are capable of wearing masks imo. 

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3 hours ago, pogi said:

How are they less protective?  Free reign of the place?  Are there no student workers in medical facilities? Why would they even be wearing gloves and gowns if there are no indications for full PPE?

I am trying to understand (for Calm's mother's sake) if there were reliable methods for preventing transmission of the virus from the student worker to the patients.  Why was there a breakdown in this case?  The safeguards should have been more stringent in the facility than out in public?

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

If two and three year olds can learn not to expose their butts whenever they want and not to stick their hands down into their pants to see what smells, four year olds are capable of wearing masks imo. 

I've been sub'g the last few days, and most all of them are wearing it properly, except for a few that have their masks below their noses. I constantly reminded them. I'm hoping the surfaces being less contagious than they thought is accurate because during snack time in a 1st grade class yesterday, they had fruit snacks as a snack, and those were played with and even rub'd on filthy desks. I had to monitor and tried to nip it in the bud when I first saw a little boy doing it. At the end of the day I disinfected all the desks, wasn't sure if the janitor would do it, on closer observation they weren't very clean. 

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

If two and three year olds can learn not to expose their butts whenever they want and not to stick their hands down into their pants to see what smells, four year olds are capable of wearing masks imo. 

I was wrong to think kids would have trouble with masks. Kids complain much less than adults do about them.

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22 minutes ago, longview said:

I am trying to understand (for Calm's mother's sake) if there were reliable methods for preventing transmission of the virus from the student worker to the patients.  Why was there a breakdown in this case?  The safeguards should have been more stringent in the facility than out in public?

You are assuming there was a breakdown and suggesting unreasonable “safeguards” that no medical facility takes, nor could they reasonably take even if they wanted to.

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14 minutes ago, pogi said:

You are assuming there was a breakdown and suggesting unreasonable “safeguards” that no medical facility takes, nor could they reasonably take even if they wanted to.

So you agree that draconian measures are pointless.  And we NEVER should have locked down the economy?

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3 hours ago, pogi said:

My 4 year old pre-schooler wears a mask every day in preschool.  So do his class mates.  At first, his school stated that preschoolers will not be required to wear masks because maybe they thought they were incompetent or something.  My wife called his teacher and told her that our son wears a mask well, and doesn't complain.  She asked if she could at least encourage (if not require) other parents to send their kids with masks?  The teacher said that she can't do it, because it is against the rules, or something.  My wife wrote a simple letter to the higher ups stating that preschool aged kids are competent and are not as stupid as many adults (she didn't really say that), and that it would make her feel more confident and safe sending her child if other parents were encouraged to send their kids with masks.  A week later, the school sent out a letter to all parents encouraging all kids (even preschoolers) to wear masks.  It has happened without a hitch.  All of his classmates wear them faithfully.  No throw up...yet.

 He wears it better than many adults I see whenever we take him out.  No complaining.  No tugging.  If he was coughing or sneezing, that is what the mask is there for!  Young kids have an incredible ability to learn and obey simple tasks like properly wearing a mask, when properly educated.  They are not as willfully defiant and careless like many adults are.  

I've sub'd the last few days, 1st and 2nd grade classes, and they wear their masks much better than the adults! I even told them how impressed I was, too. I've only had one child who wouldn't wear her but she had issues with several other things and finally wore it, and another that had a malfunctioning one. And one day forgot to wear it, so the school provided it, most likely it's not a priority with her parents.

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53 minutes ago, longview said:

So you agree that draconian measures are pointless.  And we NEVER should have locked down the economy?

Hindsight is 20/20! I believe since this was such a new virus, no one knew what to do at first. Dr. Fauci worried that the N95 masks would be bought up and there would not be enough for first responders, IMO he said we didn't need them because of that. I sure wish he would have encouraged homemade ones though and that we didn't lock down at all. I firmly believe if everyone had a proper mask and followed guidelines, a shut down wouldn't have been necessary. I do believe lots of balls were dropped by those in the know especially. 

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1 hour ago, longview said:

I am trying to understand (for Calm's mother's sake) if there were reliable methods for preventing transmission of the virus from the student worker to the patients.  Why was there a breakdown in this case?  The safeguards should have been more stringent in the facility than out in public?

No breakdown as far as I am aware.  The protocols are PPG for all staff, but they aren't wearing hazmats suits.  The student worked the day before showing symptoms, iirc.

 

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I was wrong to think kids would have trouble with masks. Kids complain much less than adults do about them.

They are used to people ordering them around.

Lots of adults think living a certain length of time somehow gives you the right to ignore others.

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1 hour ago, longview said:

So you agree that draconian measures are pointless.  And we NEVER should have locked down the economy?

As a BYU student, they might not have been infected if the other students were all compliant with basic hygiene, mask, and social distancing advice.  

The possible problem was there weren't draconian measures (the university started in person classes, the students were not immediately sent home if they were found to be non compliant).

As far as I am aware there have been few draconian measures in .Utah outside of shutting down some businesses and the schools for awhile.  No fines for violating Mask mandates that haven't been going that long.  Haven't heard of any students being sent home for partying without masks.  Have heard of some stores staying open even when they weren't supposed.

It might have been better to go all out on Mask mandates as soon as those were available and social distancing and allow stores and schools to stay open if no cases of Covid.  But it wasn't known it wasn't surface contact that was more likely spreading it.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I was wrong to think kids would have trouble with masks. Kids complain much less than adults do about them.

Been in a kindergarten class lately?

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5 hours ago, pogi said:

My 4 year old pre-schooler wears a mask every day in preschool.  So do his class mates.  At first, his school stated that preschoolers will not be required to wear masks because maybe they thought they were incompetent or something.  My wife called his teacher and told her that our son wears a mask well, and doesn't complain.  She asked if she could at least encourage (if not require) other parents to send their kids with masks?  The teacher said that she can't do it, because it is against the rules, or something.  My wife wrote a simple letter to the higher ups stating that preschool aged kids are competent and are not as stupid as many adults (she didn't really say that), and that it would make her feel more confident and safe sending her child if other parents were encouraged to send their kids with masks.  A week later, the school sent out a letter to all parents encouraging all kids (even preschoolers) to wear masks.  It has happened without a hitch.  All of his classmates wear them faithfully.  No throw up...yet.

 He wears it better than many adults I see whenever we take him out.  No complaining.  No tugging.  If he was coughing or sneezing, that is what the mask is there for!  Young kids have an incredible ability to learn and obey simple tasks like properly wearing a mask, when properly educated.  They are not as willfully defiant and careless like many adults are.  

Having listened to Sister Gui and the other four kindergarten teachers in her school  and the dozens more in the district kindergarten group Zoom meetings discuss this very issue, having been in her classroom as a volunteer many times, and having taught 42 years myself including one year of kindergarten music, I can’t share your optimism. There is a huge spectrum of emotional maturity in kindergarten. We have had experience with some seriously dysfunctional children, some of whom would rip off their masks as well as their table mates’ in a sudden burst of angry defiance. More kids than you might imagine.  

 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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19 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Been in a kindergarten class lately?

No, but I know a lot of teachers who tell me they adapt well in general and have had to take nieces and nephews out several times. 

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15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, but I know a lot of teachers who tell me they adapt well in general and have had to take nieces and nephews out several times. 

I live with a kindergarten teacher in whose class I often volunteer, and I taught a year of kindergarten classroom music. It’s the “in general” bit that bites. 

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11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I was wrong to think kids would have trouble with masks. Kids complain much less than adults do about them.

I agree.  At least in my kids school, kids seem to be doing much better with masks than expected.  

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6 hours ago, bluebell said:

I agree.  At least in my kids school, kids seem to be doing much better with masks than expected.  

Now going on my 4th school and yes kids are doing amazingly well with masks. What is helpful is that the school gave out lanyards, or their parents did, and they are able to hook and unhook masks when at lunch and recess. Kids are so dang responsible compared to adults I've seen and crying about their freedom, what about those around them who aren't free to choose getting sick by those darn freedom speaking nonsense derelicts. 

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22 hours ago, Duncan said:

according to the CDC in 2018-2019 there were 34, 200 deaths due to Flu, what is the US up to now with covid, like 210,000? and the year isn't over yet. Besides of which here we get a free flue shot😊

Current CDC numbers for Utah:

Deaths involving pneumonia   814.  

Deaths involving Covid.           483

Deaths involving both Covid and pneumonia 172.

Covid deaths not involving pneumonia.    311

Pneumonia deaths not involving Covid.     642

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10 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Current CDC numbers for Utah:

Deaths involving pneumonia   814.  

Deaths involving Covid.           483

Deaths involving both Covid and pneumonia 172.

Covid deaths not involving pneumonia.    311

Pneumonia deaths not involving Covid.     642

To get a full picture there should probably be a couple more there.

Deaths involving both where covid caused pneumonia and deaths involving both where the pneumonia came first.  

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

What is helpful is that the school gave out lanyards, or their parents did, and they are able to hook and unhook masks when at lunch and recess.

Great idea. 

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