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Any Church-related Covid Outbreaks?


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I assume this is weighted to areas with more cases so those of us in Utah have less connections like these. 
 

From my Everyday Health link

Quote

Four out of 10 Americans know someone who was hospitalized or died from virus. Another Pew Research poll released on September 14 found that 40 percent of Americans say they know someone who has been hospitalized or died as a result of having COVID-19. Fourteen percent of U.S. adults say they have tested positive for COVID-19 or are “pretty sure” they have had it.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Let us revisit this important ratio:

@The Nehor states that the US now has 210,000 deaths due to Covid and believes it will go up to 400,000 by the end of the year.

Assuming US population of 320,000,000, the death rate due to Covid is now 0.00065625 and will hit 0.00125 by year end.

The lockdowns seriously need to be ended.  Draconian measures hurt too many people.  Prudent measures can continue to be practiced by most people.  Those most vulnerable can continue to self-isolate.  Enough with the hysteria.

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49 minutes ago, longview said:

Those most vulnerable can continue to self-isolate.

As noted in the other thread, my mother's high risk facility has been reinfected by a college student who worked there.  The vast majority of staff are in 30s and 20s being overseen by more mature and experienced administrative staff.  There is no way for it to function without college kids doing cleaning, cooking, and running errands for the residents.

Edited by Calm
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6 hours ago, longview said:

Let us revisit this important ratio:

@The Nehor states that the US now has 210,000 deaths due to Covid and believes it will go up to 400,000 by the end of the year.

Assuming US population of 320,000,000, the death rate due to Covid is now 0.00065625 and will hit 0.00125 by year end.

The lockdowns seriously need to be ended.  Draconian measures hurt too many people.  Prudent measures can continue to be practiced by most people.  Those most vulnerable can continue to self-isolate.  Enough with the hysteria.

No, I said between 300,000 and 400,000.

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10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, I said between 300,000 and 400,000.

Ok.

Recent news from WHO:  an estimated (including unreported cases) 760,000,000 may have been infected (worldwide).

If the number of confirmed deaths is over one million, then the fatality rate is 0.13%.  Other news sources indicated there is a real possibility a certain fraction of covid deaths may have been over reported.

That's a little more than one-tenth of 1%, which the WHO says is the rate for the seasonal flu.

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17 hours ago, Calm said:

As noted in the other thread, my mother's high risk facility has been reinfected by a college student who worked there.  The vast majority of staff are in 30s and 20s being overseen by more mature and experienced administrative staff.  There is no way for it to function without college kids doing cleaning, cooking, and running errands for the residents.

If it was a high risk facility, then would we not expect more extraordinary measures be taken to ensure the safety of the residents?

Such as testing for covid before allowing the workers to come through the doors?  There are now 15 minute tests that will help with screening.  It might be best for the workers to avoid daily commutes.  They should be tested and then remain on-site for 3, 5 or 7 days in order to reduce risks.  Maybe compartmentalize floors and sections so that no one walks freely from place to place?  Make serious upgrades to HVAC systems to rigorously filter out (steralize) pathogens?

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1 hour ago, longview said:

Ok.

Recent news from WHO:  an estimated (including unreported cases) 760,000,000 may have been infected (worldwide).

If the number of confirmed deaths is over one million, then the fatality rate is 0.13%.  Other news sources indicated there is a real possibility a certain fraction of covid deaths may have been over reported.

That's a little more than one-tenth of 1%, which the WHO says is the rate for the seasonal flu.

do you want covid? I don't want AIDS, the Flu, a cold, covid so I'll take all the precautions I can get

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1 hour ago, longview said:

If it was a high risk facility, then would we not expect more extraordinary measures be taken to ensure the safety of the residents?

Such as testing for covid before allowing the workers to come through the doors?  There are now 15 minute tests that will help with screening.  It might be best for the workers to avoid daily commutes.  They should be tested and then remain on-site for 3, 5 or 7 days in order to reduce risks.  Maybe compartmentalize floors and sections so that no one walks freely from place to place?  Make serious upgrades to HVAC systems to rigorously filter out (steralize) pathogens?

First, this is not realistic.

Second, what about President Nelson, the first presidency, the apostles, most of the GA.'s...the President of the United States.  They are all high risk categories.  Should we expect them all to just isolate from the world?  We need to carry equal burden to protect them, and allow them to participate in society relatively safely.  It is a small burden to carry. 

 

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2 hours ago, longview said:

There are now 15 minute tests that will help with screening

Are there any that do not have high numbers of false negatives for those who are asymptomatic?

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, longview said:

remain on-site for 3, 5 or 7 days in order to reduce risks. 

And who is going to pay for this?  First the cost of the extra housing...I am thinking trailers.  Then they can’t shop, but must get food and other necessities delivered for both them and the residents.  There are at least 40 workers during the day, maybe a third that at night.  So let’s say the facility needs to provide additional living areas for 50 people at a time.

And what of those workers who have families to care for?  Workers who are going to school at the same time. Where are they suddenly going to get workers like this for every nursing home and assisted living place in the US?  They lost a ton of staff as it was when they put in place their Covid restrictions. 
 

They already have quarantined residents from seeing family except through windows. There is quite a bit of stuff that is not getting done for my mom because of that, such as her exercising as they can’t legally force her to walk or even push her like family can, so chances are she will be in a wheelchair by the time this is over with (she has dementia, but not bad enough to be in the memory assisted area yet).  I am hoping her clothing is still fitting her and she hasn’t done weird stuff to it like she has in the past. 
 

 How are residents supposed to get any exercise just sitting in their apartments?  Quality of food also goes down when it has to be delivered to their rooms. Mom’s stomach and mouth go bad when she is not eating as she should, but legally they can’t force her to eat, so she lives off protein drinks for days at a time. I bet she isn’t the only one who isn’t eating as they should when they get limited to their rooms. 
 

Who will pay for the serious upgrades in filtration?

Edited by Calm
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On 9/10/2020 at 3:56 PM, Bernard Gui said:

For those who have returned to in-person Church meetings....

Has anyone in your congregation contracted the virus as a result?

Our Stake in Colorado has returned to in-person meetings with members alternating weeks so that we never have more than 100 in attendance (one family per pew, every other pew empty, wearing masks).  I am not aware of any outbreaks from Sunday meetings but I did hear that a ward in our stake had an outbreak that was believed to have been caused by a wedding reception.

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2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Our Stake in Colorado has returned to in-person meetings with members alternating weeks so that we never have more than 100 in attendance (one family per pew, every other pew empty, wearing masks).  I am not aware of any outbreaks from Sunday meetings but I did hear that a ward in our stake had an outbreak that was believed to have been caused by a wedding reception.

our stake does that too, plus they zoom the meeting every sunday

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

And who is going to pay for this?  First the cost of the extra housing...I am thinking trailers.  Then they can’t shop, but must get food and other necessities delivered for both them and the residents.  There are at least 40 workers during the day, maybe a third that at night.  So let’s say the facility needs to provide additional living areas for 50 people at a time.

You would also have to hire more workers because if they are there around the clock then they need more time off in between which means you need someone hired for the time they are off.

1 hour ago, Calm said:

And what of those workers who have families to care for?  Workers who are going to school at the same time. Where are they suddenly going to get workers like this for every nursing home and assisted living place in the US?  They lost a ton of staff as it was when they put in place their Covid restrictions. 
 

They already have quarantined residents from seeing family except through windows. There is quite a bit of stuff that is not getting done for my mom because of that, such as her exercising as they can’t legally force her to walk or even push her like family can, so chances are she will be in a wheelchair by the time this is over with (she has dementia, but not bad enough to be in the memory assisted area yet).  I am hoping her clothing is still fitting her and she hasn’t done weird stuff to it like she has in the past. 
 

 How are residents supposed to get any exercise just sitting in their apartments?  Quality of food also goes down when it has to be delivered to their rooms. Mom’s stomach and mouth go bad when she is not eating as she should, but legally they can’t force her to eat, so she lives off protein drinks for days at a time. I bet she isn’t the only one who isn’t eating as they should when they get limited to their rooms. 
 

Who will pay for the serious upgrades in filtration?

 

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

Our Stake in Colorado has returned to in-person meetings with members alternating weeks so that we never have more than 100 in attendance (one family per pew, every other pew empty, wearing masks).  I am not aware of any outbreaks from Sunday meetings but I did hear that a ward in our stake had an outbreak that was believed to have been caused by a wedding reception.

Glad to see you. I've worried about you.

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

And who is going to pay for this?  First the cost of the extra housing...I am thinking trailers.  Then they can’t shop, but must get food and other necessities delivered for both them and the residents.  There are at least 40 workers during the day, maybe a third that at night.  So let’s say the facility needs to provide additional living areas for 50 people at a time.

And what of those workers who have families to care for?  Workers who are going to school at the same time. Where are they suddenly going to get workers like this for every nursing home and assisted living place in the US?  They lost a ton of staff as it was when they put in place their Covid restrictions. 
 

They already have quarantined residents from seeing family except through windows. There is quite a bit of stuff that is not getting done for my mom because of that, such as her exercising as they can’t legally force her to walk or even push her like family can, so chances are she will be in a wheelchair by the time this is over with (she has dementia, but not bad enough to be in the memory assisted area yet).  I am hoping her clothing is still fitting her and she hasn’t done weird stuff to it like she has in the past. 
 

 How are residents supposed to get any exercise just sitting in their apartments?  Quality of food also goes down when it has to be delivered to their rooms. Mom’s stomach and mouth go bad when she is not eating as she should, but legally they can’t force her to eat, so she lives off protein drinks for days at a time. I bet she isn’t the only one who isn’t eating as they should when they get limited to their rooms. 
 

Who will pay for the serious upgrades in filtration?

Also except for maybe the most expensive facilities (and I am not sure even then) none of these employees are getting paid enough to live on-site. Almost all of them will quit.

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5 hours ago, longview said:

Ok.

Recent news from WHO:  an estimated (including unreported cases) 760,000,000 may have been infected (worldwide).

If the number of confirmed deaths is over one million, then the fatality rate is 0.13%.  Other news sources indicated there is a real possibility a certain fraction of covid deaths may have been over reported.

That's a little more than one-tenth of 1%, which the WHO says is the rate for the seasonal flu.

I don’t buy the WHO’s numbers and I am frankly surprised that you do. I am pretty sure you were knocking their competence before.

Most of the sites I respect that are trying to calculate numbers put it at around 350 million cases worldwide. If you want use the guesstimated high number you have to add in the guesstimated deaths which will be much higher because Covid death reporting has been an absolute mess in the US and in many other nations. The best way would be to check how many extra people died worldwide and compare it to last year’s numbers. I am betting it won’t fit the 0.13% mortality rate. Of course it is hard to check as most nations don’t give that information but in nations that do it appears that Covid is underreported.

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3 hours ago, rockpond said:

Our Stake in Colorado has returned to in-person meetings with members alternating weeks so that we never have more than 100 in attendance (one family per pew, every other pew empty, wearing masks).  I am not aware of any outbreaks from Sunday meetings but I did hear that a ward in our stake had an outbreak that was believed to have been caused by a wedding reception.

My stake in Colorado is now doing the same. 🙂

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27 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Also except for maybe the most expensive facilities (and I am not sure even then) none of these employees are getting paid enough to live on-site. Almost all of them will quit.

Mom’s is high end for Utah County and I am guessing, not even close. I may ask a staff member I am good friends with next time I talk to her what she thinks of the idea. 

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My son Abogadissimo, who is a bishop, just reported on their first live meeting. Complying with the required details taxed their resources. For example, to put the bread and water into individual alternately spaced cups require 22 water trays. Where do you get those? The sacrament itself took over 20 minutes with the deacons having to sanitize their hands and replace their latex gloves between the bread and water. Sanitizing the building before the meeting took at least an hour. The next ward had to repeat the building-wide routine. They had to call a “Covid Czar” to monitor the meeting to make sure everything was in compliance, so they picked a brother who was the most vociferous health fanatic in the ward, thinking that he would be making his presence known anyway, but that they could reign him in if needed. They were right. At the end of the meeting, he wondered is it was all worth it. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

My son Abogadissimo, who is a bishop, just reported on their first live meeting. The complying with th required details was daunting. For example, to put the bread and water into individual alternately spaced cups require 22 water trays. The sacrament itself too over 20 minutes with deacons having to sanitize their hands and replace their latex gloves between the bread and water. Sanitizing the building before the meeting took at least an hour. The next ward had to repeat the building-wide routine. They had to call a “Covid Czar” to monitor the meeting to make sure everything was in compliance, so they picked a brother who was the most vociferous health fanatic in the ward, thinking that he would be making his presence known anyway, but that they could reign him in if needed. They were right. At the end of the meeting, he wondered is it was all worth it. 

The efforts are worth it...several of these measures are silly, however.  Why are they sanitizing the whole building when only the chapel is being used?  Changing gloves between bread and water?  They are not even in line with current guidelines.  None of these measures make up for the fact that 100's of people are in an enclosed room for around an hour in a pandemic of an air-borne disease.  

It is unfortunate to hear of many of these extreme measures, as they turn on their smart phones (because hymn books are too dangerous to touch!) and...sing.  

 

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5 hours ago, Duncan said:

do you want covid? I don't want AIDS, the Flu, a cold, covid so I'll take all the precautions I can get

The seasonal flu does result in hundreds of thousands of deaths annually.  But please do NOT lockdown the economy.  There are plenty of other categories that result in more deaths every year.  Several of them with greater rate of deaths than covid.  It is apparent that covid has leveled off to seasonal flu rates.

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16 minutes ago, pogi said:

The efforts are worth it...several of these measures are silly, however.  Why are they sanitizing the whole building when only the chapel is being used?  Changing gloves between bread and water?  They are not even in line with current guidelines.  None of these measures make up for the fact that 100's of people are in an enclosed room for around an hour in a pandemic of an air-borne disease.  

It is unfortunate to hear of many of these extreme measures, as they turn on their smart phones (because hymn books are too dangerous to touch!) and...sing.  

 

The remark about being worth it references the demands on the sabbath day/family time of some members for a meeting that lasts under an hour and is attended by fewer people because of spacing rules. 

The chapel, restrooms, halls, entryways, doors, etc., are sanitized, not the the unused classrooms. Washington seems to have stricter rules than some other places. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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15 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The remark about being worth it references the demands on the sabbath day/family time of some members for a meeting that lasts under an hour and is attended by fewer people because of spacing rules. 

I see.  I question whether it is worth it too, in that regard.  But for some, attendance in person seems to be worth the effort for them.   I personally feel it is less burdensome and much safer to just participate on-line and from the comforts of my home.  

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5 hours ago, pogi said:

First, this is not realistic.

Second, what about President Nelson, the first presidency, the apostles, most of the GA.'s...the President of the United States.  They are all high risk categories.  Should we expect them all to just isolate from the world?  We need to carry equal burden to protect them, and allow them to participate in society relatively safely.  It is a small burden to carry. 

It appears that nursing homes have less protective measures than medical facilities.  Why are student workers allowed free reign of the place?  Are they regularly changing latex gloves and gowns and masks etc between patients?

It looks to me that the General Authorities are taking prudent precautions but I am betting they are not suffering any paranoia with the contagion.

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Are there any that do not have high numbers of false negatives for those who are asymptomatic?

Are there specialized tests for seasonal flu?  Probably not.  If there are symptoms, then there are more precise tests to be done by labs.

4 hours ago, Calm said:

And who is going to pay for this?  First the cost of the extra housing...I am thinking trailers.  Then they can’t shop, but must get food and other necessities delivered for both them and the residents.  There are at least 40 workers during the day, maybe a third that at night.  So let’s say the facility needs to provide additional living areas for 50 people at a time.

Exactly the point.  It comes down to the choice between family care at home and various kinds and degrees of casual or intensive care.  But masks only mitigate to a limited degree.  Disease transmission will occur regardless of however severe draconian measures are taken.

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I don’t buy the WHO’s numbers and I am frankly surprised that you do. I am pretty sure you were knocking their competence before.

You remembered right.  Just wanted to point out that several sources agree that death rate is leveling out to less than 1%.  On par with the seasonal flu.

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I am betting it won’t fit the 0.13% mortality rate. Of course it is hard to check as most nations don’t give that information but in nations that do it appears that Covid is underreported.

Do you agree there is a real probability of US hospitals over-reporting covid deaths?  Are you aware that there are financial incentives from the government for hospitals to report covid cases?

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