Jump to content

Resign or Not to Resign


Recommended Posts

This is tough as there is a stigma, at least in some cases, put on the parent who have family that leave.  Kids have their free agency and it is unfortunate when "how it looks to the outside world" takes over.  I felt this and my parents did too, when my brother and his family left.  However, we worked through it and realized that it has nothing to do with us and everything to do with my brother and his great family.  They chose a different path than where I am and it is hard not to be different around them because we are taught to avoid apostasy.  I try to act as though it isn't a big deal and try not to engage him on his history lessons he liked to give.  However, he has now stopped trying to convert me and I respect him.  I still like when we all get together.  It's just sad.

  • Like 1
Link to post
20 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I can confirm this has happened. Shock and outrage that we did not suddenly show up when their life inevitably imploded. By "inevitably" I do not mean because they left the Church. I mean "inevitably" because it was obvious to anyone that knew what they were doing how it would turn out.

"Why don't you care that I messed up my life"?

Edited by Kenngo1969
Link to post
1 minute ago, Kenngo1969 said:

"Why don't you care that I messed up my life."?

Shouldn't we care when someone messes up their life? Prodigal son, leaving the 99 for the 1, etc.

  • Like 2
Link to post
4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Does it make much difference between a child not going to church and not resigning or not going to church and resigning.

Some who resign do so to be left alone.

  • Like 2
Link to post
17 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

"Why don't you care that I messed up my life"?

"I care and I cared.  I told you things would not turn out well if you did such and such but you chose to do it anyway. So it's your fault that you messed up. Fortunately for all of us though we have a Savior who can save all of us if we do what he tells us to do."

  • Like 1
Link to post
4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Last night my 18 year old son threw one at my wife and I.  I suppose I was not shocked because for a while know I have questioned how much of a testimony my son had.  I however did not want to push him to much and give him his space.  He is going off to school in a few days for how long with COVID I don't know.  Anyway he said he does not have a testimony, does not plan to go to church and put in a resignation.   He says he stopped believing in 8th grade and went to church for his friends.  He read some anti stuff when he was younger and it sort of set him off.  Over time he has put a lot of it aside and is just wants to live life.  He does not rule out coming back to church but plans to continue living most of the how he has grown up.  No drinking or coffee ect.  Needless to say I am super depressed right now.  I have not been the best example in home church stuff though I don't  think it would have mattered even if I was.  He said as much to us.  I know my kids are not my possession.  We raise them and hope for the best and even the best parents like Lehi have problems.  Thankfully my son is not near a Laman or Lemual. 

Anyway the one thing I asked him was not to resign.  Take time off.  Don't go to church.   I feel that resignation is just a serious step that he should not take.  I don't know what he will do.  Am I right on this?  Does it make much difference between a child not going to church and not resigning or not going to church and resigning.  One part of me suggests its a big deal but the other is if one is not going to church, does it really matter if his names are on the roles.  Am I stressing too much on this?

This is heartbreaking for a parent, I'm so sorry.  As a parent, I certainly would not want my child to remove his name from the church records, and you can certainly tell him so, but if he chooses to do so, don't lose heart.  It could be that voluntarily giving up his membership, having his name removed, and the loss of his blessings, his baptism, priesthood, the right to the companionship of the holy ghost will come to mean more to him in the long run, once he no longer has them.  It doesn't matter to him right now, he thinks they are worth nothing and that's why he's willing to give it up so easily, and maybe if he no longer has it, one day, in the future, it will come to mean something to him.  Just continue to love him and pray for him and know that Heavenly Father loves him too and has entrusted him to you, knowing he was going to go through this.

  • Like 1
Link to post
18 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Shouldn't we care when someone messes up their life? Prodigal son, leaving the 99 for the 1, etc.

Yeah, but this person expected the Church to keep tabs on them....somehow. It wasn't particularly rational.

I admit our secret Danite Apostate Observation Agency really dropped the ball on that one but no one is supposed to know about those.

  • Like 1
Link to post
12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, but this person expected the Church to keep tabs on them....somehow. It wasn't particularly rational.

I admit our secret Danite Apostate Observation Agency really dropped the ball on that one but no one is supposed to know about those.

Well it would help if you stopped telling people about us, I mean them.

Ahab, aka Dan

  • Like 1
Link to post
11 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Shouldn't we care when someone messes up their life? Prodigal son, leaving the 99 for the 1, etc.

Of course.  However, you've heard the old saying that one "can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink."  Even someone who's dying of thirst needs to recognize an offered antidote as the solution to his predicament: if he doesn't, there's not much anyone can do for him.  We can try to explain the law of the harvest, that one reaps what one sows, but, often, there's not much else we can do.  "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion, still."  And if someone is determined to mess up his life no matter what, there's not much anyone's going to be able to do for him. 

I have family members in the position described above.  I will always love them; I will be there for them to the extent possible.  But I cannot remember the last time one of them visited me (and/or the last time one did so ... and it wasn't a case of one showing up out of the blue to ask for money. ;)), and they haven't provided me with contact information after their myriad moves: if they're seeking sympathy from others because of allegedly-uncaring family members, it works out well for them because I'm one of the uncaring people to whom they can point who "never calls, never visits, and never writes."  I can't call you if I don't know your number, and I can't visit you or write you if I don't know your address. 

Similarly, often, the "never call, never visit, never write" complaint is heard among members who have placed themselves on the very margins of the flock, if they're even still in the flock at all.  It's difficult for them to get pastoral care if they haven't visited their local congregation to update leaders with current information, so the only information the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has is an old address from half a dozen moves ago, an old e-mail from three or four e-mails ago, and an old phone number from two phones ago.  If one wants to be found, all he has to do is pick up the phone.  But some people say they want to be found, when what they really want to do is to complain about how uncaring leaders and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are.

And when someone tries to counsel one of those family members (both of one's blood family and one's church family, come to think of it) and says, "Hey, you don't want to take another step in that direction: that's where the land mine is," and they take another step in that direction anyway and end up getting blown to bits, figuratively speaking, the first response always is, "Why didn't you tell me?" the response is, "I tried."  Whaddayagonna do? :unknw:  One has to know one has a problem, has to believe one can be helped with the problem, and has to be willing to accept help for the problem.

Edited by Kenngo1969
Fixed inadvertent negative
  • Like 1
Link to post
1 minute ago, Peppermint Patty said:

I wonder how many 8 year olds are truly capable of understanding the ramifications and magnitude of their baptismal covenants?

Don't just wonder.  Go around and ask as many 8 year old people as you can find.  Simply put, it is all about being willing to take upon oneself the name of Christ, choosing to do his will while learning what his will is.

I think most 3 and 4 year olds can understand what that means, but children are not accountable for any sins until they become 8 years old.

Link to post
7 minutes ago, Peppermint Patty said:

I wonder how many 8 year olds are truly capable of understanding the ramifications and magnitude of their baptismal covenants?

and why we have inflated membership roles. In our Stake, when the temple is discussed in the media, it's purported we have 4500 members. We don't. We have 3200 members, 1200-1300 are active ish, with about 600 with an active recommend, with about 2-300 endowed without a recommend. That's like 2000 people inactive, worse if somehow the 4500 number is accurate

Link to post
11 minutes ago, Peppermint Patty said:

I wonder how many 8 year olds are truly capable of understanding the ramifications and magnitude of their baptismal covenants?

You could mosey on over to my thread about this, which was prompted by your quote from Ahab.

Link to post
Just now, Ahab said:

Don't just wonder.  Go around and ask as many 8 year old people as you can find.  Simply put, it is all about being willing to take upon oneself the name of Christ, choosing to do his will while learning what his will is.

I think most 3 and 4 year olds can understand what that means, but children are not accountable for any sins until they become 8 years old.

we know different children then! hahahha!

Link to post
13 minutes ago, Peppermint Patty said:

I wonder how many 8 year olds are truly capable of understanding the ramifications and magnitude of their baptismal covenants?

None. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
1 minute ago, Duncan said:

we know different children then! hahahha!

I said understand what it means to learn what his will is and to do it.  I didn't say always be willing to do it.

Link to post

As is the case with our own discipleship, I believe discussions with those who express a lack or loss of faith or belief are more likely to be fruitful if they are Christ centric, not Church centric.  

One of many possible examples of this is the tendency to focus on Church attendance...trying to get a loved one to “come back to Church” when I believe what we really hope for is that they will find Christ.

For any number of reasons, some people’s desire and ability to seek love, comfort and direction from Deity is impeded by their relationship with the Church.

I believe the best invitation that can be given to this young man, or anyone else in his circumstance,  is to work on his relationship with his Heavenly Father and his Savior.  Earnest endeavors in that regard are always rewarded.  As one finds and follows Deity, they change and their ability to build, mend and strengthen relationships, with family, friends, and the Church, increases.

Edited by let’s roll
  • Like 3
Link to post

You are right.   His baptism gives him the gift of the Holy Ghost, which matters, no matter how little one follows commandments or attends church.   I have a son who resigned when he wasn't living the gospel (and had done what he felt was unforgivable although I don't think it was something that church members would deem unforgiveable).  He's still having difficulty with that, but he feels stuck because he isn't a member.   Being on the membership rolls can mean that someone gets inspired to reach out to him at some time.   (If you are contacted for a new address, be sure to ask his permission to give it before doing so.  You need to respect his agency.)

And you may be the only example of discipleship of Jesus Christ that he sees.  Make sure you are a good one.   And help him understand that his discipleship of Jesus Christ is waaay more important than how often he attends church on Sunday (though the latter is important also).

Also, get him a copy of his patriarchal blessing, and the book "Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson and "When Your Prayers Seem Unanswered" by Wilcox  to tuck in the bottom of one of the boxes he packs as he leaves.  Put a $20 bill in the little book so he'll have incentive to read the bigger one if he finds it.  Oh, and help him set up his free ancestry and other family history apps ---another good reason to maintain his membership) and and his own membership account and LDS Tools so he can easily find help if he ever needs it.

Link to post
52 minutes ago, Peppermint Patty said:

I wonder how many 8 year olds are truly capable of understanding the ramifications and magnitude of their baptismal covenants?

Exactly!

Link to post
3 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

As is the case with our own discipleship, I believe discussion with those who express a lack or loss of faith or belief are more likely to be fruitful if they are Christ centric, not Church centric.  

One of many possible examples of this is the tendency to focus on Church attendance...trying to get a loved one to “come back to Church” when I believe what we really hope for is that they will find Christ.

For any number of reasons, some people’s desire and ability to seek love and comfort from Deity is impeded by their relationship with the Church.

I believe the best invitation that can be given to this young man, or anyone else in his circumstance,  is to work on his relationship with his Heavenly Father and his Savior.  Earnest endeavors in that regard are always rewarded.  As one finds and follows Deity, they change and their ability to build, mend and strengthen relationships, with family, friends, and the Church, increases.

What should always be understood but which is sometimes not said.  Thank you for this.

Just as it doesn't do any good for an infant to be baptized because the infant is not making any choice and therefore is not choosing to live the covenant associated with baptism, so too does it not do any good if parents take their 8-year old child to be baptized if the 8-year old person isn't choosing to honor the covenant associated with baptism.  The purpose of baptism is to show we are willing to learn and do the will of God.  It isn't about being covered in water.

Link to post
6 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Anyway the one thing I asked him was not to resign.  Take time off.  Don't go to church.   I feel that resignation is just a serious step that he should not take.  I don't know what he will do.  Am I right on this?  Does it make much difference between a child not going to church and not resigning or not going to church and resigning.  One part of me suggests its a big deal but the other is if one is not going to church, does it really matter if his names are on the roles.  Am I stressing too much on this?

Good advice asking him not to resign, let his mature. No 18 year old should make such life altering decisions. Also, use this as an opportunity to become more involved, is setting examples at home, when he comes home. It will d you both a lot and f good. As far as possessions, if our children don’t belong to us, who d they belong too? True we cannot live their lives for them, or direst them, but they do need to know they are ours. 

Link to post
24 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

No 18 year old should make such life altering decisions.

Is leaving the Church at 18 more life altering than joining at 8?

  • Like 3
Link to post
8 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Is leaving the Church at 18 more life altering than joining at 8?

Since one is “opening a door to a larger Spiritual world”, and the the other is “closing the door to a smaller Spiritual world”. I would say, opening the door is better, so I am going with 8 years old. 

  • Like 1
Link to post

Can you help me understand the process here. A person resigns from the LDS church, I'm assuming by letter or some such. How does that cancel their baptism, temple marriage, etc? A ceremony gave the baptism and marriage, how does a letter or phone call get rid of it? The latter seems bureaucratic -- taking a name off of a membership list. How does that connect to the former -- a religious rite?

I'm curious as to your theology here. I'm not being critical of it. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
19 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Can you help me understand the process here. A person resigns from the LDS church, I'm assuming by letter or some such. How does that cancel their baptism, temple marriage, etc? A ceremony gave the baptism and marriage, how does a letter or phone call get rid of it? The latter seems bureaucratic -- taking a name off of a membership list. How does that connect to the former -- a religious rite?

I'm curious as to your theology here. I'm not being critical of it. 

Fair question.  In our Church/kingdom we keep track of what people have done by keeping records on them, so when someone is baptized and confirmed as a member of our Church/kingdom... part of the same process of "saving" someone from the world... we record their name(s) and the ordinance(s) they have received into the records of our Church/kingdom.  And if for some reason they later decide to abandon their covenant they made at baptism, we mark that in our records too, in their name, to show they wanted to be "loosed" from that work.  And at that point it is considered as if they never had that work done, so that if they later decide to become a member of the Church/kingdom again, they must start at the beginning and receive each ordinance again.

Edited by Ahab
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...