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Locals in Erda, Ut Complain Re: Temple Development, Church Responds....


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12 hours ago, Calm said:

IOW, the pronunciation follows the pronunciation of name of the state you are currently in which is understandable, but what that means for the river when in Oklahoma and Colorado, I don't know.  Do they get to choose?  Do they even know the alternative pronunciation?

Can't speak for Colorado, but it's pronounced just like the state (i.e., -saw) in Oklahoma.

 

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When we moved back to California as a teen, it used to bug the heck out of me that my schoolmates would say "Illinoise" rather than "Illinoi".

I always thought people who pronounced the "s" were either not educated or that they were intentionally trying to be funny / provocative. 

For the most part, state names have a country-wide agreed upon pronunciation - though I do remember being taught that there were alternate pronunciations for Hawaii (i.e., huh-why-ee was common and huh-vye-ee native). 

 

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On 8/20/2020 at 10:10 AM, bluebell said:

😂

I thought we were talking about actual town names and not weird local accents. 

Otherwise everyone who didn’t call Layton Lay’un would be saying it’s wrong. 

Hey I have noticed that as a huge trend in English pronunciation - seriously!!  To my knowledge that is called a "glottal stop" - skipping a letter and making that "un" sound.'   I think it is a shift among the young primarily.

Listen for it- you see it all over in the way kids speak- a good test word for that is "button".  Ask kids to say "button" and you will hear it a lot: "but-un"

I hear it on TV, everywhere.   There is one TV ad I have heard where the guy says the word "hundred" as "hunnerd" a jillion times when discussing money, but then when he speaks of percentages, he will say "one-hundred percent" perfectly clearly ;)

Go figure!

Whatever it is, it's going national!

 
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glot·tal stop
/ˈɡlädl ˌstäp/
 
noun
 
  1. a consonant formed by the audible release of the airstream after complete closure of the glottis. It is widespread in some nonstandard English accents and in some other languages, such as Arabic, it is a standard consonant.

 

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On 8/19/2020 at 12:41 PM, smac97 said:

Here:

I don't think the Church can always accommodate complaints about how it does things, but stories like the above show that it is trying to be considerate and a good neighbor.

Meanwhile, the locals are pretty happy:

Thanks,

-Sac

I wonder what happened. Did they not pray over the plans and the proposed  site beforehand. If so, what happened? Did the will of the people overturn the will of the Lord?

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16 hours ago, Amulek said:

Oh man, Washington has got a ton of weird ones: Puyallup, Tulalip, Camano, Enumclaw, Keechelus, Steilacoom, Sequim, etc. 

My wife grew up near Snoqualimie Falls, and one of the nice things about having served my mission in NW Washington is that she doesn't have to wince every time I say any of those places. ;) 

 

And my favorites, Ilwaco and Humptulips.

 

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16 hours ago, Amulek said:

Can't speak for Colorado, but it's pronounced just like the state (i.e., -saw) in Oklahoma.

 

I always thought people who pronounced the "s" were either not educated or that they were intentionally trying to be funny / provocative. 

For the most part, state names have a country-wide agreed upon pronunciation - though I do remember being taught that there were alternate pronunciations for Hawaii (i.e., huh-why-ee was common and huh-vye-ee native). 

 

Well, here we have the city of Des Moines, and the second word is pronounced Moins.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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5 hours ago, Islander said:

I wonder what happened. Did they not pray over the plans and the proposed  site beforehand. If so, what happened? Did the will of the people overturn the will of the Lord?

I think the Lord of the Universe cares about Temples ... a lot.  As much as He might care about what surrounds them, however, I think that level of concern is dwarfed by his level of concern for Temples.  (And I think, in this particular circumstance, with the Salt Lake Temple out of commission for several years, that the Lord said, "The Temple's the thing, Brethren.  The Temple's the thing.")

Edited by Kenngo1969
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22 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

... medicinal purposes only ... :D:rofl::D

Your neck of the woods sounds fascinating.  How hard do you think it would be for me to invent an excuse to visit? ;) (Of course, there are fascinating places in my own neck of the woods that I haven't seen ... I've seen a lot of them, but there are almost 85,000 square miles in the state, many of them quite remote, so ...  I notice that New Mexico is half again as big, at more than 120,000 square miles.)

P.S.: Se me olvido: You're now in that hellhole God's Country, When the Commie Libs Aren't Trying to Burn it Down to the Northwest.

Yeah the natural beauty compensates somewhat for the political madness. Seattle Mayor Durkan just grew a pair and vetoed the city council’s move to defund the police. That’s really something new and odd for Seattle! Now if she can get the rioters under control some of us may risk visiting the city again.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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Before this whole yeah-right-they're-gonna-build-a-whole-planned-community-around-the-Temple--over-my-dead-body Brouhaha, had anybody outside the immediate area ever erda Erda? [Cue rimshot!]  ;):D:rofl:

Thanks!  You're a great crowd!  I'll be here all week. ;):D

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On 8/22/2020 at 12:52 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

I think the Lord of the Universe cares about Temples ... a lot.  As much as He might care about what surrounds them, however, I think that level of concern is dwarfed by his level of concern for Temples.  (And I think, in this particular circumstance, with the Salt Lake Temple out of commission for several years, that the Lord said, "The Temple's the thing, Brethren.  The Temple's the thing.")

Interesting how little commentary my question has elicited.  In any event, there handfull of temples in Utah within 30 mins of Salt Lake. I was wondering at how easily the mob cry overturned the alleged will of the Lord in this case.

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3 hours ago, Islander said:

Interesting how little commentary my question has elicited. 

You can always simply put me on "Ignore" status.  Certainly, that would be easier than claiming I have ignored you when responding, however inadequately, to your query.

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In any event, there handfull of temples in Utah within 30 mins of Salt Lake.

The Tooele Valley Temple isn't one of them.

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I was wondering at how easily the mob cry overturned the alleged will of the Lord in this case.

 

And my response was intended to address that issue directly.  You may feel it did so only inadequately, as is your right.  But if you believe that it did not do so at all, that's the equivalent of moistening your fingers and placing them firmly in your ears while shouting, "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!  I can't hear you!  I can't hear you!  Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!"  As I said, the Lord cares about Temples.  He cares about The Big Picture.  The details?  Perhaps not so much.

Edited by Kenngo1969
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2 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

You can always simply put me on "Ignore" status.  Certainly, that would be easier than claiming I have ignored you when responding, however inadequately, to your query.

The Tooele Valley Temple isn't one of them.

 

And my response was intended to address that issue directly.  You may feel it did so only inadequately, as is your right.  But if you believe that it did not do so at all, that's the equivalent of moistening your fingers and placing them firmly in your ears while shouting, "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!  I can't hear you!  I can't hear you!  Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!"  As I said, the Lord cares about Temples.  He cares about The Big Picture.  The details?  Not so much.

That is simply a rationalization. It was just too convenient. "Well, the Lord just cared about the Temple, anyways". That's what you are saying. The facts are that there was a master plan and part of it fell thru. My question was, how is it possible? If a unanimous decision was made to move forward with the whole plan then, by force, it must have been sanctioned by the Lord. Then, how is it possible that mere mortals derailed the plan? 

If the Lord JUST wanted a Temple built, He would have so inspired the building of JUST a Temple, and NO talk or plan of a whole development community would have ever happen. That is what I am saying. So, the question remains; what happened? 

But it is clear you either don't have an answer or it pains you do do so. It's OK. 

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34 minutes ago, Islander said:

That is simply a rationalization. It was just too convenient. "Well, the Lord just cared about the Temple, anyways". That's what you are saying. The facts are that there was a master plan and part of it fell thru. My question was, how is it possible? If a unanimous decision was made to move forward with the whole plan then, by force, it must have been sanctioned by the Lord. Then, how is it possible that mere mortals derailed the plan? 

If the Lord JUST wanted a Temple built, He would have so inspired the building of JUST a Temple, and NO talk or plan of a whole development community would have ever happen. That is what I am saying. So, the question remains; what happened? 

But it is clear you either don't have an answer or it pains you do do so. It's OK. 

Islander, hate to burst your bubble about this, and only about this, but the church has a real estate arm as you must know. My daughter works for the church and she could tell you plenty of what the church does in that arena. And to everyone else on the board, it's a good thing. IMO, the church has wealth untold, and the members should be given some kind of break, or at least be treated much better, but going to bow out right now.

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Islander, hate to burst your bubble about this, and only about this, but the church has a real estate arm as you must know. My daughter works for the church and she could tell you plenty of what the church does in that arena. And to everyone else on the board, it's a good thing. IMO, the church has wealth untold, and the members should be given some kind of break, or at least be treated much better, but going to bow out right now.

Fair enough. 

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5 minutes ago, Islander said:

Fair enough. 

I forgot to mention that my daughter works in the real estate arm of the church. I hope you get the answers you need Islander and that you are doing well. :)

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4 hours ago, Islander said:

That is simply a rationalization.

It is?

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It was just too convenient.

Too convenient for whom?

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"Well, the Lord just cared about the Temple, anyways". That's what you are saying.

CFR.

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The facts are that there was a master plan and part of it fell thru. My question was, how is it possible?

I don't know.  How was it possible that the Lord commanded Temples to be built in Independence MO; In Kirtland OH (still standing, but no longer in possession of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints); in Far West MO; at Adam Ondi Ahman; and in Harrison NY, yet none of them, save Kirtland, ever were built?  (And remember: In this instance, we're not talking about a Temple not being built, but, rather, about certain initially-desired development around it not taking place: That's a completely different matter.)

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If a unanimous decision was made to move forward with the whole plan then, by force, it must have been sanctioned by the Lord.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "by force."  Agency is so important that, at least in part, the best blood that ever lived was spilt for it; it's so important that the Lord allows even unspeakable things to occur because of man's inhumanity to man, though, in the end, (and that's the key), He will not be mocked, nor, ultimately, will His purposes be frustrated.  As I said in the beginning, by far, the Temple is the most important thing here, because it is.

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Then, how is it possible that mere mortals derailed the plan?

 

They didn't derail the plan.  The temple still is going forward!  :yahoo: Hooray! :yahoo:  Hurrah for Israel! :D

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If the Lord JUST wanted a Temple built, He would have so inspired the building of JUST a Temple, and NO talk or plan of a whole development community would have ever happen. That is what I am saying. So, the question remains; what happened?

Pending approval of the appropriate planning and zoning authorities, since the land is the property of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could, notwithstanding any opposition manifesting a contrary opinion, the Church of Jesus Christ could still say, "We recognize that there is opposition, but this is our property, and we have the right, subject to existing laws and regulations, to do with it as we wish," and go forward with its initial plan.  However, since: (1) the Temple is the priority; and (2) the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cares about being a good neighbor, a good citizen, and manifesting good will toward its neighbors and those with whom it has dealings, the Church of Jesus Christ and its leaders decided that ramming the initial plan through wasn't the best option.

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 But it is clear you either don't have an answer or it pains you do do so. It's OK.

Oh, but I do have an answer: you've simply made it plain that you don't like that answer.  Okay.  Fine and dandy.  To each, his own. Sorry for the intrusion.  You're certainly welcome to moisten your fingers, insert them back into your ears and shout to yourself, "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!  I can't hear you!  I can't hear you!  Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!"

Edited by Kenngo1969
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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Islander, hate to burst your bubble about this, and only about this, but the church has a real estate arm as you must know. My daughter works for the church and she could tell you plenty of what the church does in that arena. And to everyone else on the board, it's a good thing.

Yes, it is.

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

IMO, the church has wealth untold, and the members should be given some kind of break, or at least be treated much better, but going to bow out right now.

"Wealth untold"?  Nope!  No exaggeration there! :rolleyes:<_<   And it's a voluntary organization.  No one is twisting your arm demanding that you participate in a certain way, or even that you participate at all.

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On 8/22/2020 at 12:47 AM, Bernard Gui said:

And my favorites, Ilwaco and Humptulips.

 

I've never Humped any Tulips.  Is it fun?

Whaaaat? :unknw::huh:

Edited by Kenngo1969
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On 8/19/2020 at 3:05 PM, Calm said:

The park in front of the temple looked quite nice.

I think in the long run they will likely end up with denser population than what the Church planned, but the Church development probably would have sped up the process.  This might delay things 5 to 10 years depending on how the Church sells the land...assuming that is what it does.  They might hold on to it until someone else less caring about the neighbourhood's feelings has broken the ice, so to speak.

If the residents figure when they get older they won't want to keep doing the rural life and their kids likely won't care, then delaying it is the way to go. 

What typically happens is that the land simply becomes too valuable to resist, and the owners sell off their 5 acre plots, which get subdivided. It has happened all over Utah Co. They then take their money and retire nicely or use it to buy land further out. Mapleton has changed drastically over the last 20 years as is all of eastern Utah Co. Genola is a last holdout... if you want that lifestyle... and can afford their 5 acre plots...

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On 8/23/2020 at 9:12 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

Yes, it is.

"Wealth untold"?  Nope!  No exaggeration there! :rolleyes:<_<   And it's a voluntary organization.  No one is twisting your arm demanding that you participate in a certain way, or even that you participate at all.

Well, there are things taught that basically make one demand it of themselves because they believe. 

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7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well, there are things taught that basically make one demand it of themselves because they believe. 

:rolleyes:  Okay.

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On 8/21/2020 at 12:07 PM, mfbukowski said:

Hey I have noticed that as a huge trend in English pronunciation - seriously!!  To my knowledge that is called a "glottal stop" - skipping a letter and making that "un" sound.'   I think it is a shift among the young primarily.

Listen for it- you see it all over in the way kids speak- a good test word for that is "button".  Ask kids to say "button" and you will hear it a lot: "but-un"

I hear it on TV, everywhere.   There is one TV ad I have heard where the guy says the word "hundred" as "hunnerd" a jillion times when discussing money, but then when he speaks of percentages, he will say "one-hundred percent" perfectly clearly ;)

Go figure!

Whatever it is, it's going national!

 
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The glottal stop has been present for many generations in popular speech patterns. It surprises me you view it as a “trend,” implying it is a relatively recent thing. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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25 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well, there are things taught that basically make one demand it of themselves because they believe. 

If they believe in and “demand it of themselves,” they must be OK with it. And you have a problem with this because ... ?

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On 8/21/2020 at 12:07 PM, mfbukowski said:

Hey I have noticed that as a huge trend in English pronunciation - seriously!!  To my knowledge that is called a "glottal stop" - skipping a letter and making that "un" sound.'   I think it is a shift among the young primarily.

Listen for it- you see it all over in the way kids speak- a good test word for that is "button".  Ask kids to say "button" and you will hear it a lot: "but-un"

I hear it on TV, everywhere.   There is one TV ad I have heard where the guy says the word "hundred" as "hunnerd" a jillion times when discussing money, but then when he speaks of percentages, he will say "one-hundred percent" perfectly clearly ;)

Go figure!

Whatever it is, it's going national!

 
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The one I don't like is when people type "prolly" instead of probably. The un's don't bother me too much. In fact I sometimes think I annoy people when I feel the need to pronounce my t's. I live in Layton and don't say Lay-un. 

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4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The glottal stop has been present for many generations in popular speech patterns. It surprises me you view it as a “trend,” implying it is a relatively recent thing. 

The mere existence of the term "glottal stop" indicates that it has been "present for many years". 

Yeah, like since language began being used.

I was talking about ONE instance of a new appearance of the glottal stop in English- and of course that was my opinion.   If you have something relevant to say about that particular recent usage, please respond.

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