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Adam Clarke Bible Commentary Influence in the Book of Mormon?


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10 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

...they lack the critical academic skills to render an opinion. Like Jackson. 

Jackson has an MA and PhD in Near Eastern Studies from the University of Michigan, where his supervisor was the renowned biblical scholar David Noel Freedman. His dissertation, The Ammonite Language of the Iron Age, was published in the Harvard Semitic Monographs Series, edited by Frank Moore Cross. With Scott Faulring and Robert Matthews, he was a co-editor of Joseph Smith’s New Translation of the Bible: Original Manuscripts (2004) and is one of the foremost living experts on the JST.

Whatever the merits of his analysis (I haven't read it yet), he's not unqualified to render an opinion.

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4 hours ago, Nevo said:

Jackson has an MA and PhD in Near Eastern Studies from the University of Michigan, where his supervisor was the renowned biblical scholar David Noel Freedman. His dissertation, The Ammonite Language of the Iron Age, was published in the Harvard Semitic Monographs Series, edited by Frank Moore Cross. With Scott Faulring and Robert Matthews, he was a co-editor of Joseph Smith’s New Translation of the Bible: Original Manuscripts (2004) and is one of the foremost living experts on the JST.

Whatever the merits of his analysis (I haven't read it yet), he's not unqualified to render an opinion.

When was he last in an academic department and how long was he there?  

Edited by Bob Crockett
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On 10/7/2020 at 11:00 AM, Bob Crockett said:

I agree.  I understand the need to teach a religion class to the students and to train seminary teachers, but beyond that they lack the critical academic skills to render an opinion. LIke Jackson. 

I'm curious what you think would be appropriate and necessary "academic skills" in critiquing Wayment's ideas about the Clarke-JST theory.

Thanks,

-Smac

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2 hours ago, smac97 said:

I'm curious what you think would be appropriate and necessary "academic skills" in critiquing Wayment's ideas about the Clarke-JST theory.

Thanks,

-Smac

I suppose that any bozo can author an article and get published by the Interpreter.  After all, Dr. Peterson's FARMS journal published my pieces on the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

I wonder if Mark Allan Wright is able to publish peer reviewed articles on MesoAmerica when he does not work in an academic department.  He's like Jackson.  I could be wrong here.

Dr. Peterson says that Jackson's article was "peer reviewed" but I certainly challenge that notion for a number of reasons.  It is not "peer reviewing" in the secular sense.  But I'm more critical of the contents, as described above.  I wonder if it makes a difference that Joseph Smith relied on Adam Clarke.  There is certainly no evidence of it other than textual.

Edited by Bob Crockett
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39 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:
Quote

I'm curious what you think would be appropriate and necessary "academic skills" in critiquing Wayment's ideas about the Clarke-JST theory.

I suppose that any bozo can author an article and get published by the Interpreter.  After all, Dr. Peterson's FARMS journal published my pieces on the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Okay.  But that does not answer my question about "appropriate and necessary 'academic skills'" relative to the Clarke-JST issue.

39 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I wonder if Mark Allan Wright is able to publish peer reviewed articles on MesoAmerica when he does not work in an academic department. 

Are you saying he lacks the credentials?  That only people who work in "an academic department" directly related to the subject matter have the "appropriate and necessary 'academic skills'" to publish scholarly material?

39 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

He's like Jackson.  I could be wrong here.

How is he "like Jackson?"  I still don't understand your position about  "appropriate and necessary 'academic skills.'"

39 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Dr. Peterson says that Jackson's article was "peer reviewed" but I certainly challenge that notion for a number of reasons.  It is not "peer reviewing" in the secular sense. 

How so?  

39 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

But I'm more critical of the contents, as described above. 

Okay.  But you went beyond assessing "the contents" when you claimed Jackson lacked "the critical academic skills to render an opinion" on the Clarke-JST issue.  Again, what skills do you think he is lacking?  

Just trying to understand your position here.  That's all.

Thanks,

-Smac

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50 minutes ago, Daniel Peterson said:

 

BC:  "It is not "peer reviewing" in the secular sense."

It's "peer reviewing" in precisely that sense.

 

 

I'm not critical of the Interpreter for its peer reviewing.  The Interpreter has its role and is filing it very well.

But I know peer review, having been one and also representing universities. 

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1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Okay.  But that does not answer my question about "appropriate and necessary 'academic skills'" relative to the Clarke-JST issue.

Are you saying he lacks the credentials?  That only people who work in "an academic department" directly related to the subject matter have the "appropriate and necessary 'academic skills'" to publish scholarly material?

How is he "like Jackson?"  I still don't understand your position about  "appropriate and necessary 'academic skills.'"

How so?  

Okay.  But you went beyond assessing "the contents" when you claimed Jackson lacked "the critical academic skills to render an opinion" on the Clarke-JST issue.  Again, what skills do you think he is lacking?  

Just trying to understand your position here.  That's all.

Thanks,

-Smac

Jackson did not work in an academic department.  If he's not working in his field, then he's not on top of his game.  Plus, I really do not think his piece requires any sort of skill, and therein lies my criticism as to the contents.  

Nibley did. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

 I know peer review, having been one and also representing universities. 

I know peer review, too.  I've done peer review, I've been peer reviewed, and I've supervised peer review.

Have you undergone peer review for an article submitted to Interpreter?  Can you inform us about how Interpreter's peer review process works?

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47 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Plus, I really do not think his piece requires any sort of skill, and therein lies my criticism as to the contents.  

Can you please explain what you mean by, "I really do not think his piece requires any sort of skill"?  I don't want to misunderstand you.  Are you saying that the subject matter that he is discussing doesn't require any sort of skill?  If that is the case, then why lambaste him for his credentials?   As for the "contents" of his piece, you really haven't addressed any of the contents of his article.  You claimed he didn't directly compare or quote Clarke, which he did (I cited one of several possible examples to prove that).  You claimed his piece is "poorly written", but you refuse to explain why.  You claim he doesn't have the academic skills to render an opinion on this, but others have shown that he does.  Is this just a personal matter between you and him?  If so, then I don't want to hear about it.   But if that is the case then it might explain why your comments on his article seem so conflicting and nonsensical.

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25 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

Can you please explain what you mean by, "I really do not think his piece requires any sort of skill"?  I don't want to misunderstand you.  Are you saying that the subject matter that he is discussing doesn't require any sort of skill?  If that is the case, then why lambaste him for his credentials?   As for the "contents" of his piece, you really haven't addressed any of the contents of his article.  You claimed he didn't directly compare or quote Clarke, which he did (I cited one of several possible examples to prove that).  You claimed his piece is "poorly written", but you refuse to explain why.  You claim he doesn't have the academic skills to render an opinion on this, but others have shown that he does.  Is this just a personal matter between you and him?  If so, then I don't want to hear about it.   But if that is the case then it might explain why your comments on his article seem so conflicting and nonsensical.

It doesn't take academic skill to compare three sources, the KJV, JST and Clarke.

I didn't lambaste anybody.  I think that an academic ought to work (or have retired from) an academic department to be trusted as an expert.

I have explained my concerns with the contents, above.

I don't necessarily have to accept the opinions of others when rendering my own.  They could be wrong.  I trust my opinion.  I am a published expert in my field.

I have never heard of Mr. Jackson before last week.

You may not want to hear about it but others might.

Edited by Bob Crockett
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58 minutes ago, Daniel Peterson said:

I know peer review, too.  I've done peer review, I've been peer reviewed, and I've supervised peer review.

Have you undergone peer review for an article submitted to Interpreter?  Can you inform us about how Interpreter's peer review process works?

No I haven't.  No I can't.  But representing secular and religious universities, I know peer review.

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Can you teach in Religious Education without a college degree?  Or at least a Master's. I know the guy who taught me freshman BoM didn't seem to want to be there and was a Provo businessman. Just read from the manual.  Became a general authority 20 years later.

Monte Nyman taught me Isaiah.  He just used the OT and BoM text and the Church manual.  I just didn't see it.  

Don't instructors have to be more than an institute teacher?  Didn't seem so. 

The assistant director of the Ancient Scripture Department doesn't even have a degree in the field. Does he teach?

Not really a rigorous department.  Are instructors in Religious Education required to publish in a secular field.  Did Jackson do so when he was dean or associate Dean?

Edited by Bob Crockett
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43 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Can you teach in Religious Education without a college degree?  Or at least a Master's. I know the guy who taught me freshman BoM didn't seem to want to be there and was a Provo businessman. Just read from the manual.  Became a general authority 20 years later.

Monte Nyman taught me Isaiah.  He just used the OT and BoM text and the Church manual.  I just didn't see it.  

Don't instructors have to be more than an institute teacher?  Didn't seem so. 

The assistant director of the Ancient Scripture Department doesn't even have a degree in the field. Does he teach?

Not really a rigorous department.  Are instructors in Religious Education required to publish in a secular field.  Did Jackson do so when he was dean or associate Dean?

My former Stake President Richard Bennett!!!!!!! he has taught at BYU Religious Education since 1997, he has a PH.D. in American Religious History(he did it on the Church and Missouri) from a non Mormon university, he has published in non Mormon publishers and topics. He is one brilliant bird and super duper humble. Given his back ground it's no wonder he teaches Church history and Doctrine and Covenants. I know he recently published a great book on temples and the 19th century, based on some articles he's written

https://religion.byu.edu/richard_bennett

Edited by Duncan
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21 minutes ago, Duncan said:

My former Stake President Richard Bennett!!!!!!! he has taught at BYU Religious Education since 1997, he has a PH.D. in American Religious History(he did it on the Church and Missouri) from a non Mormon university, he has published in non Mormon publishers and topics. He is one brilliant bird and super duper humble. Given his back ground it's no wonder he teaches Church history and Doctrine and Covenants. I know he recently published a great book on temples and the 19th century, based on some articles he's written

https://religion.byu.edu/richard_bennett

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/a-uni-dimensional-picture-of-a-multi-faceted-nauvoo-community/

 

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1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:

Can you teach in Religious Education without a college degree?  Or at least a Master's. I know the guy who taught me freshman BoM didn't seem to want to be there and was a Provo businessman. Just read from the manual.  Became a general authority 20 years later.

Monte Nyman taught me Isaiah.  He just used the OT and BoM text and the Church manual.  I just didn't see it.  

Don't instructors have to be more than an institute teacher?  Didn't seem so. 

The assistant director of the Ancient Scripture Department doesn't even have a degree in the field. Does he teach?

Not really a rigorous department.  Are instructors in Religious Education required to publish in a secular field.  Did Jackson do so when he was dean or associate Dean?

Your requirements are rigid and unjustifiable.  I've already given examples above of leading academic figures -- two Nobel laureate scientists and a widely respected Mesoamerican archaeologist -- who lack university positions.  And now, as to the matter of degrees:  The great Anglo-American historian Peter Brown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Brown_(historian)) doesn't even have a doctorate.  Yet I once sat in on a doctoral defense at Princeton University for which he served on the committee.  (Such examples can easily be multiplied.)

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4 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

I know the guy who taught me freshman BoM didn't seem to want to be there and was a Provo businessman. Just read from the manual.  Became a general authority 20 years later.

So because they had some adjunct professors and other professors who were lame in your opinion  when you were at BYU, you assume how many decades later everyone in the department is the same?

My Isaiah teacher in 1979 was Victor Ludlow. I still have the Isaiah translation he has as an additional text among others he referred to in class.  I took every course I could from him. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_L._Ludlow

I wasn’t too impressed with my freshman honors class BoM teacher who was a prof from another dept, it was a small class of about 8 students and we mostly shared ideas about what we read....something I would love to do these days, but I was wanting more to watch rather than participate back in those days. 
 

Some teachers were great, others not so much...just like in every other department I took classes in (which was quite a few) and as it appears to be in 4 different universities my husband has taught at.

Edited by Calm
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