Covid II: Medical Info and Implications

[The Nehor 26,295]

 

[Rain 8,678]

My daughter has an appointment to get the vaccine.  I understand the storage problem, but I am surprised by how few places she can get it.  She will be going somewhere 45 minutes away and it's not like we live in a small town.

[pogi 9,294]

47 minutes ago, Rain said:

My daughter has an appointment to get the vaccine.  I understand the storage problem, but I am surprised by how few places she can get it.  She will be going somewhere 45 minutes away and it's not like we live in a small town.

Happy to hear she is getting the vaccine!  I'm surprised too though.  Not sure why she would have to travel so far.  Which organization is administering the vaccine?  The Moderna vaccine doesn't have any storage issues and the Pfizer vaccine is good for 5 days in a fridge.   We don't have any deep freezers with the County but we still administered the Pfizer vaccine at our local clinics.  I think most hospitals carry the deep freezers for Pfizer, so that shouldn't be too far to travel either way.   We pick up just enough supply to use within 5 days.  We mostly administer Moderna however (thankfully).  Pfizer is kind of a pain with the storage issues and reconstituting the vaccine.

[Rain 8,678]

18 minutes ago, pogi said:

Happy to hear she is getting the vaccine!  I'm surprised too though.  Not sure why she would have to travel so far.  Which organization is administering the vaccine?  The Moderna vaccine doesn't have any storage issues and the Pfizer vaccine is good for 5 days in a fridge.   We don't have any deep freezers with the County but we still administered the Pfizer vaccine at our local clinics.  I think most hospitals carry the deep freezers for Pfizer, so that shouldn't be too far to travel either way.   We pick up just enough supply to use within 5 days.  We mostly administer Moderna however (thankfully).  Pfizer is kind of a pain with the storage issues and reconstituting the vaccine.

As far as we could tell from the sign up there is only 3 places in all of Phoenix area she could get it. Two of the 3 only had morning hours when she works, but they still weren't real close and the appointments were further out.  I'm not sure who is doing it, but I know the lack of places to get it has been a frequent complaint on the AZ coronavirus reddit sub.

[pogi 9,294]

33 minutes ago, Rain said:

As far as we could tell from the sign up there is only 3 places in all of Phoenix area she could get it. Two of the 3 only had morning hours when she works, but they still weren't real close and the appointments were further out.  I'm not sure who is doing it, but I know the lack of places to get it has been a frequent complaint on the AZ coronavirus reddit sub.

That's frustrating.  I am surprised at how few places there are in Phoenix that administer it. 

[Rain 8,678]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

That's frustrating.  I am surprised at how few places there are in Phoenix that administer it. 

Ok, looking more there are more.  Some of it depends on which group you are in and what day it is.  Still not a lot of places, but better than what we saw before. There are 5 PODs and maybe the cardinals stadium.  I saw the stadium was 24/7, but it is not listed with the PODs.

[Peacefully 204]

Hubby and I received the Moderna vaccine this morning. I had a bit of an anxiety attack, but all went well. I had some soreness, so I took a Tylenol and felt better. I’m tired now, but feeling ok. I was very impressed by folks at the vaccine site. They were so nice! Everything ran smoothly and we were in and out within the hour. 

[Rain 8,678]

Bad news 4 of my daughter's coworkers or their clients were out with covid yesterday. 6 today.  The bad thing is that these coworkers don't work together so they didn't all get it from just 1 point of contact.

[Calm 40,204]

Just found out my sister-in-law is recovering.  She had about 3 bad uncomfortable but not dangerous days and appears to be on the mend...been about 10 days since it showed up.  So far her husband tested negative and has no symptoms. 

Edited Wednesday at 02:30 AM by Calm

[Calm 40,204]

Question for Pogi:  

If you are symptomatic with Covid, at what point can you go out again assured you are not infectious?

Is it ten days after the first symptoms show up, after they go, or something else?

Edited Wednesday at 03:45 AM by Calm

[pogi 9,294]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

Question for Pogi:  

If you are symptomatic with Covid, at what point can you go out again assured you are not infectious?

Is it ten days after the first symptoms show up, after they go, or something else?

The general rule is 10 days from symptom onset.  This is how we count 10 days - if symptom onset was today (1/13), for example, then 1/14 would be day one, and 1/23 would be day 10.  Day 11 (1/24) would be their first day off isolation. 

This is conditional upon them having no fever (without taking fever reducing medicine) for 24 hours and they also must have a general reduction in other symptoms for at least 24 hours as well.  

If a person is asymptomatic, we go 10 days from test date.

Having said that, some symptoms like loss of smell and taste can last for several months, and a mild residual cough can last for around a month at times, and fatigue can linger as well - these are not indicators that a person is infectious/contagious.   If there is overall improvement in symptoms, they are good to go after 10 days.   Where it gets tricky is with long-haulers.  They can go for months and months without reduction in symptoms.  Their symptoms are not due to an active infection however and they are not contagious.  There is no clear line as to when they can be off isolation, so it is a judgment call.   I will never extend isolation beyond 3 weeks in those cases.

As you can see it can get a little complicated, but over 95% of cases are not contagious after 10 days. 

Schools are starting to follow a different schedule for the test to stay and test to play program they have started.  They are not allowing any student to return to school for 10 days from test date, regardless of when symptoms started.  I'm not sure why they use this schedule, it is more stringent than the County and CDC guidelines, and it adds confusion when they get conflicting information from the school and County.  But such is life. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:55 PM by pogi

[Calm 40,204]

Thank you.  Very helpful. 

[bsjkki 5,213]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/13/moderna-ceo-says-the-world-will-have-to-live-with-the-coronavirus-forever.html

"Public health officials and infectious disease experts have said there is a high likelihood that Covid-19 will become an endemic disease, meaning it will become present in communities at all times, though likely at lower levels than it is now.

Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel appeared to agree Wednesday that Covid-19 will become endemic, saying “SARS-CoV-2 is not going away.”

“We are going to live with this virus, we think, forever,” he said during a panel discussion at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference.

Health officials will have to continuously watch for new variants of the virus, so scientists can produce vaccines to fight them, he said. Researchers in Ohio said Wednesday they’ve discovered two new variants likely originating in the U.S. and that one of them quickly became the dominant strain in Columbus, Ohio, over a three-week period in late December and early January."

[pogi 9,294]

36 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/13/moderna-ceo-says-the-world-will-have-to-live-with-the-coronavirus-forever.html

"Public health officials and infectious disease experts have said there is a high likelihood that Covid-19 will become an endemic disease, meaning it will become present in communities at all times, though likely at lower levels than it is now.

Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel appeared to agree Wednesday that Covid-19 will become endemic, saying “SARS-CoV-2 is not going away.”

“We are going to live with this virus, we think, forever,” he said during a panel discussion at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference.

Health officials will have to continuously watch for new variants of the virus, so scientists can produce vaccines to fight them, he said. Researchers in Ohio said Wednesday they’ve discovered two new variants likely originating in the U.S. and that one of them quickly became the dominant strain in Columbus, Ohio, over a three-week period in late December and early January."

On the world scale, I agree.  It will be more problematic in developing countries with few resources to vaccinate billions of people.    I think we can mostly eradicate this from the US however -if- we are lucky and the vaccine gives long-term immunity.  Measles is even more contagious than Covid and we have been able to nearly eradicate it in the US through vaccinations.  We only see tiny outbreaks every now and then from foreign travelers.  These are rapidly squelched through contact tracing and vaccination. It will likely become a required vaccine for school aged children.  It may take some time to get to the point of eradication in the US, but I am confident we will get there if we have a long-lasting vaccine that protects against different strains.  Fingers crossed!

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:22 PM by pogi

[Rain 8,678]

@pogiMy parents live in Utah.  They just told me, "We signed up for vaccine, got the confirmation, printed the QR code this morning. Just got notice the immunization drive has been canceled."

Do you know anything about that?

Edit: the news said the cancelation was sent out by mistake 

Edited Thursday at 04:42 PM by Rain

[Calm 40,204]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-immunity/covid-19-infection-gives-some-immunity-for-at-least-five-months-uk-study-finds-idUSKBN29J004

[pogi 9,294]

16 hours ago, Rain said:

@pogiMy parents live in Utah.  They just told me, "We signed up for vaccine, got the confirmation, printed the QR code this morning. Just got notice the immunization drive has been canceled."

Do you know anything about that?

Edit: the news said the cancelation was sent out by mistake 

Sorry, I am not sure about that.  I know the Salt Lake County sign-up website has been having major technical issues.  Maybe it is related to that.  If they are going through the State or a different County, I wouldn't have access to any of that info.  

[pogi 9,294]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-immunity/covid-19-infection-gives-some-immunity-for-at-least-five-months-uk-study-finds-idUSKBN29J004

That's interesting.  I don't think the conclusions are reliable though:

Quote

Between June 18 and Nov. 24, scientists found 44 potential reinfections - two “probable” and 42 “possible” - among 6,614 participants who had tested positive for antibodies. This represents an 83% rate of protection from reinfection, they said.

This doesn't necessarily represents an 83% rate of protection.   That would only be true if it could be confirmed that all the participants were re-exposed to the virus after their first infection and only 44 were re-infected.  

The fact is that the majority of the population has not been been exposed to the virus even one time, let alone two times within a 5 month period.   The fact that other's are not getting sick twice might simply be due to the fact that they haven't been exposed a second time yet, and not because they have any type of "protection". 

What we hope for is that the vaccine will give longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity (we do see that with some vaccines).  This is an entirely new type of vaccine however (mRNA), so we don't really have any idea of what to expect from it in terms of longevity.    If the vaccine is only good for 5 months, we are hosed.  I try not to let myself go there though  

[bsjkki 5,213]

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit-vs-other-voluntary-measures-international-study-shows-1561656?amp=1&utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Dueling studies? This new peer reviewed studies going lockdown no better than less restrictive measures.

[Calm 40,204]

EDH:

“One dose of Johnson & Johnson vaccine produces immune response. The New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday published trial data suggesting that a single shot of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine candidate was enough to produce an immune response in both young and old adults. The study, involving 805 participants, also showed the vaccine to be safe, causing very few side effects. The most frequent adverse event was fever, although subjects experienced fatigue, headache, and myalgia (muscle pain). By day 57, all volunteers had produced detectable neutralizing antibodies, regardless of vaccine dose or age group.

Paul Stoffels, MD, Johnson & Johnson’s chief scientific officer, told The New York Times that more study results are coming and “hopefully somewhere in March we’ll be able to contribute” to the nation’s vaccination drive. The article said the Johnson & Johnson immunization may hold an advantage because it is expected to be administered in a single shot, but the company is currently behind in production”

Me:  this info may have already been posted I think

”COVID-19 could become like the common cold in the future. A study published in the journal Science on Monday suggested that the novel coronavirus “could join the ranks of mild, cold-causing endemic human coronaviruses in the long run.” Scientists predict that that if the virus continues to circulate and most people are exposed to it from childhood, the general population may build up immunity and resistance to such a degree that COVID-19 would be no more dangerous than the common cold.”

Edited Friday at 09:55 AM by Calm

[The Nehor 26,295]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

EDH:

“One dose of Johnson & Johnson vaccine produces immune response. The New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday published trial data suggesting that a single shot of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine candidate was enough to produce an immune response in both young and old adults. The study, involving 805 participants, also showed the vaccine to be safe, causing very few side effects. The most frequent adverse event was fever, although subjects experienced fatigue, headache, and myalgia (muscle pain). By day 57, all volunteers had produced detectable neutralizing antibodies, regardless of vaccine dose or age group.

Paul Stoffels, MD, Johnson & Johnson’s chief scientific officer, told The New York Times that more study results are coming and “hopefully somewhere in March we’ll be able to contribute” to the nation’s vaccination drive. The article said the Johnson & Johnson immunization may hold an advantage because it is expected to be administered in a single shot, but the company is currently behind in production”

Me:  this info may have already been posted I think

”COVID-19 could become like the common cold in the future. A study published in the journal Science on Monday suggested that the novel coronavirus “could join the ranks of mild, cold-causing endemic human coronaviruses in the long run.” Scientists predict that that if the virus continues to circulate and most people are exposed to it from childhood, the general population may build up immunity and resistance to such a degree that COVID-19 would be no more dangerous than the common cold.”

That is the best case. The studies showing possible long-term damage from the virus means that a short immunity and children getting it a lot might be worse for them. The problem is we don’t have any long-range data at this point. Hopefully it is not a dengue-fever effect where the second (and third and so on) cases are likely to be worse. It is normally the trend for viruses to become less deadly over time because viruses that kill the patient tend to die out more quickly but that is a trend and not a surety and that is in the long-term.

[The Nehor 26,295]

5 hours ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit-vs-other-voluntary-measures-international-study-shows-1561656?amp=1&utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Dueling studies? This new peer reviewed studies going lockdown no better than less restrictive measures.

I’m not convinced. The less severe lockdown they were comparing to were Sweden and South Korea. South Korea had a less severe voluntary distancing plan but South Korean for all kinds of cultural reasons were more obedient to the voluntary rules than the US and Europe were to the mandatory ones. They also had a rigorous government response. Sweden is a sample size of one if you don’t count South Korea and Sweden seemed to have fewer cases at first while the other nations were locking down. Seems like there is a correlation to causation problem in there.

[bsjkki 5,213]

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/norway-warns-of-covid-19-vaccination-risks-for-sick-patients-over-80

”Norwegian officials said 23 people had died in the country a short time after receiving their first dose of the vaccine. Of those deaths, 13 have so far been autopsied, with the results suggesting that common side effects may have contributed to severe reactions in frail, elderly people, according to the Norwegian Medicines Agency.”

[The Nehor 26,295]

In other news.....

......may take a while. Excuse me while I go bang my head against something.

[Rain 8,678]

If you get one vaccine do you need to get the same vaccine for the second shot?  I would assume so, but don't want to make assumptions on this kind of thing.