Jump to content

Covid II: Medical Info and Implications


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I mostly post studies and articles. You seem to only like ones you agree with on a personal level. 

This is from Maggie Haberman from the New York Times. Did you read the whole article?

Who is basing his statements on polls?

I only like the ones that are accurate. There is no controversy on the medical side. There are estimates and some are lower and some are higher. You scour the internet for any quack that tells you what you want to hear. I did not want a pandemic. I did not want a lockdown. I hate wearing masks. I hate not being able to do things I like to do. I hate not being able to do things at church. I hate that family could not realistically travel to be here tonight. The idea that I agree with this because I like it on a personal level is insane. Reality doesn’t care what I want. The virus is here. It does what it does. The wishful thinking that it will go away or not be that bad has been tried for the last six months and it hasn’t worked. Numbers are still high. You scouring the internet for someone telling you what you want to hear will not change reality. It will not empty the hospitals. It won’t bring back the dead.

I said Fauci’s percentage for herd immunity was low over six months ago. I am not surprised at this. Fauci in the article admitted he did not know what the percentage was but went with the lower end to try to be optimistic. Now he is inching it upwards. Good. Better to be safe. It is odd that you consider lying to be so egregious as you continually post articles here that are lies and then go back to the same sources to hunt for more. So do you like being lied to or not?

Link to post
39 minutes ago, gurn said:

USA Today Feb 17 2020 Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands.

Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."

"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said. "At the same time people are worrying about going to a Chinese restaurant. The threat is (we have) a pretty bad influenza season, particularly dangerous for our children."

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

Maybe Trump shouldn't have listened to Dr. Fauci.

It was minuscule............IN FEBRUARY!!!!! Things change.

I was so naive. I actually thought the prophet telling people to take this seriously would work for the saints at least but nope.

I look at nations that have largely controlled this and look at us showing a perverse form of American Exceptionalism. We are so deeply stupid.

Link to post
13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I only like the ones that are accurate. There is no controversy on the medical side. There are estimates and some are lower and some are higher. You scour the internet for any quack that tells you what you want to hear. I did not want a pandemic. I did not want a lockdown. I hate wearing masks. I hate not being able to do things I like to do. I hate not being able to do things at church. I hate that family could not realistically travel to be here tonight. The idea that I agree with this because I like it on a personal level is insane. Reality doesn’t care what I want. The virus is here. It does what it does. The wishful thinking that it will go away or not be that bad has been tried for the last six months and it hasn’t worked. Numbers are still high. You scouring the internet for someone telling you what you want to hear will not change reality. It will not empty the hospitals. It won’t bring back the dead.

I said Fauci’s percentage for herd immunity was low over six months ago. I am not surprised at this. Fauci in the article admitted he did not know what the percentage was but went with the lower end to try to be optimistic. Now he is inching it upwards. Good. Better to be safe. It is odd that you consider lying to be so egregious as you continually post articles here that are lies and then go back to the same sources to hunt for more. So do you like being lied to or not?

Could you please detail the lying articles? Or should I just post trolling tweets that certain people here fell for. 😏

Merry Christmas Nehor. I know we disagree on much but I hope you have a great Christmas! It would be great fun to meet and debate in person. 🙂

I know we were both concerned with Covid very early and watching things very closely.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
1 hour ago, pogi said:

 It is a disservice to our communities and nation

It's been the politicization of this virus from the beginning that has been a disservice to the nation and your comments about trump just serve to further that politicization. Let's just stick to the little we know about beating this virus and we'll be better off. 

Link to post
6 minutes ago, gurn said:

It's been the politicization of this virus from the beginning that has been a disservice to the nation and your comments about trump just serve to further that politicization. Let's just stick to the little we know about beating this virus and we'll be better off. 

Yes, we should “both sides” this.

”Tonight on NewsWatchShow we will be discussing the coronavirus. We would like to welcome our guests. We have Doctor Educated, a celebrated epidemiologist who has worked for years at eradicating polio and developed the pandemic response plans of the last two administrations. On the other hand we have Dr. Too ManyChromosomes who got his doctorate in folk lore literature by collecting enough box tops off this favorite breakfast cereal and insists the virus does not exist, that all current cases are actually demonic possession, that the worldwide pandemic is faked so that a group in one nation can somehow institute authoritarian communism, that vaccines cause autism, and that there is a right to not wear a mask in the constitution. Gentlemen, thank you both for joining us.”

  • Like 1
Link to post
2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You scour the internet for any quack that tells you what you want to hear.

This isn’t true, she has posted a number of supportive to the medical dominant consensus as well. I believe she is trying to find accuracy by looking at all that is offered and posts as much to be corrected if possible as to challenge claims. 
 

I don’t agree with her interpretation of the overall conclusions that should be drawn, but she is not intentionally trying to undermine for a personal bias. 
 

Quote

 You seem to only like ones you agree with on a personal level. 

And this isn’t true either. I have seen Nehor do research broad enough and believe his conclusions are formed by the best science he has found rather than a personal agenda. His conclusions about the political environment may be biased, but he isn’t rejecting science if he doesn’t like it. 

———

Please everyone, avoid the personal and political stuff. I so very much appreciate Pogi defending the medical info because honestly my viewpoint is much closer to his than bsjkki’s and I see his experience as invaluable and far beyond any other’s in terms of actually dealing with all the crap.
 

I also am experiencing frustration when these kinds of articles get put up because I see them as more distraction and sensationalizing to get readers than informative though I don’t fault bsjkki and others but the media that puts up everything as if there is some great inconsistency or scandal among actual medical experts rather than providing full context...I find the media’s approach in this crisis very troubling....but frustration is just going to get worse if we make it even more personal than it is already with friends and families suffering, dying, and worrying about their future for whatever reason. 

Edited by Calm
  • Upvote 3
Link to post

From EDH:

Quote

Some good news: Hospitalizations in North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana — which have been coronavirus hotspots — have dropped over the past seven days

Quote

Pfizer and the U.S. government reached a deal to boost vaccine supply. The Department of Health and Human Services announced on Wednesday that the federal government had made a deal with Pfizer to purchase an additional 100 million doses of its COVID-19 vaccine. The pharmaceutical company is to deliver 70 million doses by June 30, 2021 with the balance of 30 million doses arriving by end of July

 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
Quote

Antarctica recorded its first cases. No place on Earth is safe from COVID-19. The Guardianreported Tuesday that Antarctica — once the only continent not to be affected by the pandemic — has recorded 36 infections at a Chilean research base there.

Quote

Children may be more susceptible to the mutating virus. Scientists with Britain’s New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG) said on Monday that the rapidly spreading variant of the coronavirus in Britain carries mutations that could mean children are as susceptible to becoming infected with it as adults — unlike with previous strains, according to Reuters.

 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
Quote

Be aware of vaccine scam phone calls. An investigation by NBC News warns consumers to be on the alert for scam calls promising early access to the vaccine for people who share their Social Security Number. The Department of Health and Human Service updated its information on COVID-19 fraud on Friday and offers a video titled "5 Things About COVID-19 Health Care Fraud."

 

Link to post
51 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Just an FYI. Vaccines are still recommended but reactions could occur.

https://nypost.com/2020/12/25/moderna-covid-vaccine-has-caused-side-effects-for-those-with-cosmetic-facial-fillers/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

facial fillers could cause a reaction with the Moderna vaccine.

Facial filler?  

Link to post
3 minutes ago, Rain said:

Facial filler?  

“A couple of the patients had cheek filler six months prior to their vaccine and one patient had lip filler done two days after the vaccine. All were treated with steroids and anti-histamines and all of their reactions resolved.”

Cosmetic enhancements.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
8 hours ago, bsjkki said:

“A couple of the patients had cheek filler six months prior to their vaccine and one patient had lip filler done two days after the vaccine. All were treated with steroids and anti-histamines and all of their reactions resolved.”

Cosmetic enhancements.

I had never heard of it called filler before.  Thanks. 

Link to post

Sounds like spackling  or wood putty...what you use to fill dings and such. 

Edited by Calm
Link to post

Today for christmas we had a family friend over who is the head physician at a rural medical clinic in our state.  Since this is 2020 the conversation naturally turned to Covid-19.  I asked him what it means when someone is reported as dying of Covid.

He told me that at least in the state and county he works in there is no real definition of what it means to die of covid  Some cases, he says are obvious, but most are just judgement calls by the doctor or the coroner.  He said the coroners office is much more eager to lable someone as a COVID death than the doctors, in his experience.  Often the Coroner's office will judge someone a covid death if all there was was a covid test. (he said he has even seen them put covid on the death certificate when the test was negative or the person had covid months prior and recoverd before they died).  The doctors usualy look for more direct causation between the virus and death.  He said he only reports a covid death when it involves a recent poaitive covid test and respratiory distress caused by pneumonia, heart failure or stroke.

His main point was that it was that  there is no standard to define a Covid death.  "Died of covid" should always be taken to mean "Died with Covid"   THe role Coivd played in the death varies widely in each case and it really is an arbitrary judgement. He also said that when in doubt, put covid as cause of death.  He said that is always a safe choice for a doctor.

I know that is only one doctor's opinion, but someone with practical experience.  I wonder if anyone else has experience with determining whether someone has died of covid.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
10 hours ago, Danzo said:

Today for christmas we had a family friend over who is the head physician at a rural medical clinic in our state.  Since this is 2020 the conversation naturally turned to Covid-19.  I asked him what it means when someone is reported as dying of Covid.

He told me that at least in the state and county he works in there is no real definition of what it means to die of covid  Some cases, he says are obvious, but most are just judgement calls by the doctor or the coroner.  He said the coroners office is much more eager to lable someone as a COVID death than the doctors, in his experience.  Often the Coroner's office will judge someone a covid death if all there was was a covid test. (he said he has even seen them put covid on the death certificate when the test was negative or the person had covid months prior and recoverd before they died).  The doctors usualy look for more direct causation between the virus and death.  He said he only reports a covid death when it involves a recent poaitive covid test and respratiory distress caused by pneumonia, heart failure or stroke.

His main point was that it was that  there is no standard to define a Covid death.  "Died of covid" should always be taken to mean "Died with Covid"   THe role Coivd played in the death varies widely in each case and it really is an arbitrary judgement. He also said that when in doubt, put covid as cause of death.  He said that is always a safe choice for a doctor.

I know that is only one doctor's opinion, but someone with practical experience.  I wonder if anyone else has experience with determining whether someone has died of covid.

You will find that there is no “definition of what it means to die” from any specific disease. It is always a judgment call with anything.  It certainly is not a reason to question Covid numbers any more than with seasonal flu or anything else.  If anything, the numbers are low, according to all the major medical institutions.  Overall, I wouldn’t suspect that coroners are less precise or vigilant in determining cause of death.  I would actually guess the opposite is true. That is their primary job function and expertise, while doctors tend to focus more of their attention and study on the living.  It wouldn’t surprise me if there were some sloppy or lazy coroners out there though.  That is true with any field.

Edited by pogi
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
11 hours ago, Danzo said:

Today for christmas we had a family friend over who is the head physician at a rural medical clinic in our state.  Since this is 2020 the conversation naturally turned to Covid-19.  I asked him what it means when someone is reported as dying of Covid.

He told me that at least in the state and county he works in there is no real definition of what it means to die of covid  Some cases, he says are obvious, but most are just judgement calls by the doctor or the coroner.  He said the coroners office is much more eager to lable someone as a COVID death than the doctors, in his experience.  Often the Coroner's office will judge someone a covid death if all there was was a covid test. (he said he has even seen them put covid on the death certificate when the test was negative or the person had covid months prior and recoverd before they died).  The doctors usualy look for more direct causation between the virus and death.  He said he only reports a covid death when it involves a recent poaitive covid test and respratiory distress caused by pneumonia, heart failure or stroke.

His main point was that it was that  there is no standard to define a Covid death.  "Died of covid" should always be taken to mean "Died with Covid"   THe role Coivd played in the death varies widely in each case and it really is an arbitrary judgement. He also said that when in doubt, put covid as cause of death.  He said that is always a safe choice for a doctor.

I know that is only one doctor's opinion, but someone with practical experience.  I wonder if anyone else has experience with determining whether someone has died of covid.

There is a financial incentive to put the covid label on supposed cases as admitted by Dr. Redfield.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkP1t_2u5B0&feature=share

If you can, ask the doctor to opine on the financial incentives and whether he thinks that plays a role in the decision making process.  Money usually does.

Link to post
2 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

There is a financial incentive to put the covid label on supposed cases as admitted by Dr. Redfield.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkP1t_2u5B0&feature=share

If you can, ask the doctor to opine on the financial incentives and whether he thinks that plays a role in the decision making process.  Money usually does.

Redfield stated that it was less operable for doctors on cause of deaths though as they get reviewed.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4897385/user-clip-cdc-director-acknowledges-inflation-covid-19-death-count

As far as hospitals...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

 

Link to post
7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Redfield stated that it was less operable for doctors on cause of deaths though as they get reviewed.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4897385/user-clip-cdc-director-acknowledges-inflation-covid-19-death-count

As far as hospitals...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

 

https://www.hfma.org/topics/news/2020/04/increased-medicare-payments-for-covid-19-care-to-stretch-back-to.html

https://www.hfma.org/topics/news/2020/04/increased-medicare-payments-for-covid-19-care-to-stretch-back-to.html

https://www.aha.org/advisory/2020-04-16-coronavirus-update-cms-releases-guidance-implementing-cares-act-provisions

There was an increase in payments for patients with covid-19.  I don't think that can be denied.  Is it possible that might act as an incentive for the unscrupulous to game the system, perhaps call the flu/pneumonia with their similar symptoms as covid-19?  I don't think we can discount this, regardless of whether or not you wish to maintain the current views by the media and officials on this crisis. 

People make mistakes. The H1/N1 scare back in 2009 was exaggerated.  Zika was too.  It's understandable to over-react given the unknown and with financial incentives, the unscrupulous could take advantage and exaggerate the numbers.

In Utah, the UofU hospital in conjunction with the DN exaggerated the hospital bed availability back in October.  The UofU might have been running out of beds but not the other hospitals.  Yet, the focus was on the UofU.

We've killed our economy and lockdowns have created more mental health problems than there should be.  Perhaps our reaction to this has been overdone?  Can we ask these questions?  Obviously, our government leaders can make mistakes.  Maybe they did so here? 

Link to post
1 hour ago, Harry T. Clark said:

There was an increase in payments for patients with covid-19.  I don't think that can be denied. 

I am not denying it.  But they have to actually do the procedures to bill.  And procedures marked as COVID included additional costs.

Quote

Yet, the focus was on the UofU.

Because UoU is where hospitals without the capability send their difficult patients who have speciality care related issues.  This was discussed earlier in the thread, iirc.  UoU has the largest geographical footprint in the US for areas it is responsible for. If UoU gets filled, quality of care goes down everywhere (Utah and most surrounding states) because hospitals are then struggling to care for patients they are not equipped to care for.

Edited by Calm
Link to post
4 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Oh good, an article by an obscure website that whines about how it is censored and beaten down by 'the big tech companies' and are clearly shooting for the 'we tell you what no one else will' conspiracy market. Sounds very trustworthy. We should definitely implement policy based on that article.

Or we could look at the data? https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

Either way.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
2 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

https://www.hfma.org/topics/news/2020/04/increased-medicare-payments-for-covid-19-care-to-stretch-back-to.html

https://www.hfma.org/topics/news/2020/04/increased-medicare-payments-for-covid-19-care-to-stretch-back-to.html

https://www.aha.org/advisory/2020-04-16-coronavirus-update-cms-releases-guidance-implementing-cares-act-provisions

There was an increase in payments for patients with covid-19.  I don't think that can be denied.  Is it possible that might act as an incentive for the unscrupulous to game the system, perhaps call the flu/pneumonia with their similar symptoms as covid-19?  I don't think we can discount this, regardless of whether or not you wish to maintain the current views by the media and officials on this crisis. 

People make mistakes. The H1/N1 scare back in 2009 was exaggerated.  Zika was too.  It's understandable to over-react given the unknown and with financial incentives, the unscrupulous could take advantage and exaggerate the numbers.

In Utah, the UofU hospital in conjunction with the DN exaggerated the hospital bed availability back in October.  The UofU might have been running out of beds but not the other hospitals.  Yet, the focus was on the UofU.

We've killed our economy and lockdowns have created more mental health problems than there should be.  Perhaps our reaction to this has been overdone?  Can we ask these questions?  Obviously, our government leaders can make mistakes.  Maybe they did so here? 

Heaven save us from this madness. We are having the equivalent of a 9/11 attack in Covid deaths almost every day now and people are still trying to pretend it is just the flu.

Yes, a few might game the system but are you seriously arguing that the fraud is on this big a scale?

2 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I don't think we can discount this, regardless of whether or not you wish to maintain the current views by the media and officials on this crisis. 

Why would anyone want to believe Covid is worse than it is? What are the supposed incentives that make people pine for lockdowns and economic woes. It is insane how some people are accusing the people who say it is going to be bad of "wishful thinking".

Pogi, I hope you are braced for the Christmas spike in a few weeks. You don't deserve this. :( 

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Pogi, I hope you are braced for the Christmas spike in a few weeks. You don't deserve this. :( 

From my understand there was not a Thanksgiving spike in Utah, dont know why Utah might have a Christmas spike.

Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...